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  • FIRST POST
    • tati
    • By tati 19th Jan 17, 12:24 PM
    • 29Posts
    • 8Thanks
    tati
    Heath Parade NW9 - County Claim from Gladstones (PCM) thrown all correpsondence!
    • #1
    • 19th Jan 17, 12:24 PM
    Heath Parade NW9 - County Claim from Gladstones (PCM) thrown all correpsondence! 19th Jan 17 at 12:24 PM
    Dear all,



    I hope you are in good health, happy new year everyone!

    I wonder if you could possibly help me with this troublesome PCN case..


    We have received a PCN from Parking Control Management in October 2016 for parking on the infamous Heath Parade NW9, no (loading layby bay, privately owned land, no parking allowed at all, no ticket machines provided).

    We have ignored all correspondence from them, the case was later taken over by Gladstones, still ignored everything and also threw away all their correspondence.

    I guess that's an advice we heard from a forum a long long time ago...



    Things got serious as we received County Court Claim in the County Court Business Centre and am now preparing a defense,deadline is until 24th January but need a bit of help.



    I have read multiple forums threads and also Parking Prankster's defence tamplate and recent old dinosaurs' victorious case! However I do have the following questions as this case is slightly different as the driver parked for approx 3 or so minutes to use the cash machine next to Sainsburys, he did not do any shopping in Sainsburys.



    The driver saw the 'No customer parking sign' but did not notice or read the other small printed signs. Indeed the driver was not intending to do shopping so he did not consider himself a customer. The driver had some mobility issues and found this spot to have reasonable distance to the cash machine (in receipt of DLA mobility component) - so (question 1) is that something that can be added in this case (driver's/registered keeper's mobility issues)?



    Question 2 - what chances of winning is the driver facing as he has thrown away all the correspondence ( but as we moved houses some of the letter never reached us).



    Question 3 - should it be stated who was the driver?



    Would it be at all possible if anyone could read the statement I am preparing now and give me some feedback within next few days (one or two)?




    Thanks in advance, fellow members, me and my partner have been losing sleep over this case and we fear the hearing, nor we have the money to pay the charge if we lost the case.
Page 2
    • tati
    • By tati 17th Feb 17, 8:12 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    tati
    Coupon-mad, a quick question:

    If I want to represent my partner at a hearing do I have to sign the forms for him or declare myself as a representative?

    Thank you!!
    • Timothea
    • By Timothea 17th Feb 17, 9:19 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 191 Thanks
    Timothea
    The Defendant (your partner) must sign the forms, and the words should be as if spoken by the Defendant. The Defendant must attend the hearing (if there is one) and you can represent (speak for) the Defendant as a Lay Representative. However, you should take along copies of The Lay Representatives (Rights of Audience) Order 1999, just in case the judge or the Claimant objects.
    Last edited by Timothea; 17-02-2017 at 9:25 PM.
    • hoohoo
    • By hoohoo 17th Feb 17, 9:26 PM
    • 1,635 Posts
    • 2,996 Thanks
    hoohoo
    Here it is

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/1225/pdfs/uksi_19991225_en.pdf
    Dedicated to driving up standards in parking
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Feb 17, 9:30 PM
    • 45,122 Posts
    • 57,759 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    As the case was transferred to Clerkenwell and Shoredith (not my home court) can I request it at home court nevertheless?
    Originally posted by tati
    No. Bargepole tells me he recently asked why London cases are being transferred in droves to that court and he got this reply:


    Thank you for your request for information with respect to the listing of cases in Clerkenwell and Shoreditch.

    HM Courts & Tribunals Service and the Judiciary are currently engaged in a nationwide reform programme to ensure greater efficiency in the use of the estate and Judiciary. As part of the reform process, both the County Court at Bow and the County Court at Lambeth are closing, on 31 March 2017 and 30 September 2017 respectively.

    In order for the good management of the work, both Judges and cases are being moved to Clerkenwell and Shoreditch from Lambeth and Bow. Approximately 1500 number of cases have been moved over the past 4 months. Additionally, Clerkenwell and Shoreditch is taking cases from Edmonton, Willesden, Uxbridge, Kingston, Barnet, Woolwich, Bromley and Croydon in order to ensure that those cases can be heard more promptly. Approximately 3300 number of cases have been moved in the past 4 months.

    We are able to list the District Judges (DJs) and Deputy District Judges (DDJs) at Clerkenwell and Shoreditch for more than a full sitting day as we know that 60-80% of cases will settle without the need for a hearing and as there are a number of DDJs and DJs sitting together they are able to support each other in the work they carry out.

    All of this means that we are able to organise the Courts and Judiciary in order to ensure that litigants have their cases heard as speedily as possible.

    HM Courts & Tribunals Service



    If I want to represent my partner at a hearing do I have to sign the forms for him or declare myself as a representative?
    Neither. He has to attend anyway with you, and he MUST be the named defendant and signatory of the defence and later, the Witness Statement.

    You do not have to say in advance that he will be bringing a Lay Rep (you) with him, but you will need to go to any hearing armed with the 'Lay Reps Right of Audience' proof - as shown above by Timothea and hoohoo - and successfully utilised in recent winning threads by Gin and Milk and JodeeMcD:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5533125&page=4

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71856136#post71856136

    They did it, so can you! But the OH must attend too.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 17-02-2017 at 9:33 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • tati
    • By tati 18th Feb 17, 8:47 AM
    • 29 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    tati
    Thank you all for your invaluable advice.

    Hence, I will be amending the D1 box statement to “The Defendant opposes the Claimant’s request for special directions, and requests that the case be listed for an oral hearing at the Clerkenwell and Shoreditch CC 29-41 Gee St, EC1V 3RE, pursuant to CPR 26.2A." - Is that fine?

    I will be also attending the hearing (if it gets there) and will take 'Lay Reps Right of Audience' proof with me.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Feb 17, 9:07 AM
    • 12,171 Posts
    • 18,592 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I will be also attending the hearing (if it gets there) and will take 'Lay Reps Right of Audience' proof with me.
    By the same token, depending who Gladstones field, you might want to query the rights of audience of their representative. Well worth you boning up on this in advance, as if there is no right of audience the DJ might just decide to end the case (in your favour) there and then. Make sure you have your OH's costs schedule printed out.

    Here is a Prankster blog about the 'right of audience' issues.

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.za/2017/02/mil-lose-ms-kauser-denied-rights-of.html
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • tati
    • By tati 18th Feb 17, 9:24 AM
    • 29 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    tati
    Thanks Umkomaas! - a very useful information!
    • tati
    • By tati 18th Feb 17, 11:33 AM
    • 29 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    tati
    Please could someone please advise me about the additional text I need to put in the box D1 - I m unsure what the CPR 26.2A means - I looked it up and it is about transfer of cases within the county court but I will not be requesting transfer as it will need to be at the Clerkenwell and Shoreditch CC.

    What I need to specify is that I do not agree for claimant's special directions for the case to be dealt on papers alone.

    Therefore, can I just state:

    “The Defendant opposes the Claimant’s request for special directions, and requests that the case be listed for an oral hearing at the Clerkenwell and Shoreditch CC 29-41 Gee St, EC1V 3RE"

    or

    Shall I stick with this:

    “The Defendant opposes the Claimant’s request for special directions, and requests that the case be listed for an oral hearing at the Clerkenwell and Shoreditch CC 29-41 Gee St, EC1V 3RE, pursuant to CPR 26.2A."

    Please anyone help so I can send it off today - many many thanks!!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Feb 17, 7:27 PM
    • 45,122 Posts
    • 57,759 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Either is fine!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • catfunt
    • By catfunt 18th Feb 17, 8:57 PM
    • 577 Posts
    • 875 Thanks
    catfunt
    Have a read of post 94 on this thread http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5533125

    Hope this helps
    Got a Private Parking Notice??
    ** Do Not Pay
    ** Do Not Ignore a Notice to Keeper (except Scotland)
    ** Do not mention who was driving (No "Me" Myself" "I")
    ** Never, ever phone a Private Parking Company
    ** Please read the NEWBIES thread at the top of the forum
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 19th Feb 17, 7:20 AM
    • 1,127 Posts
    • 2,027 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    As the case was transferred to Clarkenwell and Shoredith (not my home court) can I request it at home court nevertheless?
    Some courts are closing and work is being transferred to others. In the consultation it was said

    "the Minister responsible, Shailesh Vara, refers to the fact that after the proposed changes ‘95% of citizens will be able to reach their required court within an hour by car’."

    So how disadvantaged would you be in going to Clerkenwell and not your home court - assuming your home court is not due to be closed.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.
    • tati
    • By tati 19th Feb 17, 5:21 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    tati
    Many thanks!!!

    Let's see! I do hope they discontinue !
    • tati
    • By tati 20th Apr 17, 12:16 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    tati
    Hello everybody.

    The case will be heard on 24th May however me and my partner have split and I will not be attending the court with him and I know he will not either.

    I'm still trying to help to solve this case that I have worked so hard on and can still correspond with the court or solicitors.

    What would be the best option now that we know that he won't come to the court:

    1) notify the court that the defendant will not be attending and let the case be heard without defendant

    OR

    2) opt for mediation - which might cost less than the £250 should the defendant lose the case in his absence.

    thank you people!
    Last edited by tati; 20-04-2017 at 8:44 PM.
    • tati
    • By tati 21st Apr 17, 2:26 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    tati
    anybody any advice?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 21st Apr 17, 2:59 PM
    • 12,171 Posts
    • 18,592 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Mediation is likely to get nowhere - from general experience reported by those who have tried it. AFAIAA, your ex would have to actually undertake the mediation phone call.

    If he won't attend the court and won't go for mediation (or that does not result in any reduction), the alternative is to ask for the case to be 'decided on the papers'. Not the best position from which to try to win this.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 21-04-2017 at 6:00 PM.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 21st Apr 17, 6:52 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 50 Thanks
    Johnersh
    Ok, it seems to me that the possible outcomes such as they are, are one of four...

    (1) if you do nothing the case will come to court. Assuming the ppc are represented, they are likely to be awarded the costs of the ticket, issue fee and whatever limited additional costs that they think that they can ask the Court for (which may be itemised in the Claim Form). Should the worst happen, your ex would be well advised to make payment promptly. If payment is made promptly, it will have been expensive, but contrary to the nasty letters, no CCJ will ever have been registered against your ex, nor should it have any bearing on future credit.

    (2) If you turn up You have no rights of audience, as advocacy is a regulated activity. If your ex is unwilling to attend to provide authorisation for you to speak as lay representative, it is most unlikely you will be permitted to have any input. In which case, turn to (1) above. This, again, assumes that the ppc bother to turn up.

    (3) Consider Buying off the risk Whilst others may flame me for the suggestion, it does seem that this situation is unique and your ex may be unwilling to deal with the issue. In which case a settlement offer could be advanced 'without prejudice.' The ppc will not yet have incurred a brief fee for their advocate. An offer of cash, even if less than the ticket, say £40 may still represent a decent outcome for them and, possibly, your ex.

    As I say, the advice at option 3 does not come naturally, but it would bring the matter to an immediate conclusion if accepted. Presumably you will now have seen all the witness evidence that the Claimant has to offer, so you can justifiably explain why you are likely to succeed. Clearly not having to attend the hearing or to spend time preparing for it has a value for all parties and is an explanation for why an offer could now be advanced.

    (4) On the Papers Having fought for your right to have a hearing, I struggle to see that the Court would now deal with this on the papers. You would need the Defendant to consent to it also. As Umkomaas points out, it would be much harder to win as it assumes that your papers are well enough prepared to deal with all of the issues better than the Claimant's and a degree of willingness from the district judge to read everything and get to grips with it all.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 21st Apr 17, 8:42 PM
    • 2,030 Posts
    • 1,927 Thanks
    DoaM
    So your ex is quite happy for his credit record to be trashed for 6 years? He does realise that this will be the outcome, doesn't he, if he doesn't take this seriously? (If he won't attend court, how likely is he to pay the default judgment when the PPC win?)
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • tati
    • By tati 23rd Apr 17, 8:52 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    tati
    Hello,

    Johnersh, thank you for your advice and time. I'm not sure if my ex will attend court but if he does I'm not sure he would be able to defend himself properly.. English is not his first language.

    re: buying off the risk - do you mean just contacting PPC and proposing to pay lets say £40? and they might agree?

    DoaM - Johnersh above just said that the outcome won't affect future credit - can anybody advise?

    Many thanks!!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 23rd Apr 17, 8:56 PM
    • 13,670 Posts
    • 16,777 Thanks
    Redx
    Hello,


    DoaM - Johnersh above just said that the outcome won't affect future credit - can anybody advise?

    Many thanks!!
    Originally posted by tati
    no he did not, he clearly stated that as long as the judgment or outcome is paid in full, promptly (usually within 28 days) , that there would be no impact on any credit rating

    its not paying the CCJ promptly after losing that causes the subsequent credit rating issues

    read it again , carefully this time

    Should the worst happen, your ex would be well advised to make payment promptly. If payment is made promptly, it will have been expensive, but contrary to the nasty letters, no CCJ will ever have been registered against your ex, nor should it have any bearing on future credit.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • tati
    • By tati 23rd Apr 17, 9:25 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    tati
    I said Johanersh stated that the outcome WON'T affect the outcome, I do read the posts carefully. I didnt explicitly add 'if payment is made' but my ex would make a payment if ordered.
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