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  • FIRST POST
    • hairray
    • By hairray 18th Jan 17, 7:14 PM
    • 63Posts
    • 31Thanks
    hairray
    CPM Penalty Ticket Assistance Required
    • #1
    • 18th Jan 17, 7:14 PM
    CPM Penalty Ticket Assistance Required 18th Jan 17 at 7:14 PM
    I would really appreciate the advice of members on MSE.

    I was recently issued with a ticket for parking in my parking space at our newly acquired property.

    I appealed the ticket on the basis that it is my designated parking space and CPM failed to provide me with a permit, I parked from the 13th September to 7th November with no issue.

    The appeal was rejected by both CPM and their appointed appeals company.

    Our property is a leasehold, I have contacted the land owner who has told me that because I have appealed it, they are unable to assist. They have tried.

    Having read through some of the other threads on MSE it appears to be a case of ignoring them, is this the right thing to do?

    The invoice started at £60 and is now £100, the most recent letter from CPM threatens a charge of £149.

    I am a little worried about it, I just cant seem to justify paying to park in my own space.

    They have given me an opportunity to clarify if I was the designated driver when the invoice was issued.

    I would be grateful for your opinion on the matter.
Page 3
    • hairray
    • By hairray 15th Feb 17, 10:13 AM
    • 63 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    hairray
    No response
    No response as of yet, not even acknowledgement
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 15th Feb 17, 10:16 AM
    • 31,495 Posts
    • 15,504 Thanks
    Quentin
    You can't "force" them to reply, just keep trying once they miss any suggested deadlines you have given them to reply
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Feb 17, 11:10 AM
    • 46,883 Posts
    • 60,192 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You have to give them time to chew this over! Sit tight. Clearly even if this went to small claims you would have a defence in that you were never furnished with a permit, plus the fact that your lease doesn't incorporate any such terms or parking charge for use of your bay.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • hairray
    • By hairray 15th Feb 17, 11:31 AM
    • 63 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    hairray
    Thank you both. Just thought I'd keep you updated!
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 15th Feb 17, 11:47 AM
    • 6,575 Posts
    • 5,517 Thanks
    The Deep
    It is a great letter CM but it is very "in your face", I hope that the OP has the cojones to follow it through.

    Personally I would invoice the MA/landowner for my time, say £50. If they ignore, I would issue a LBA, and then a MCOL I am sure that that would concentrate their minds. It really is time that PPCs were taught that residential property is a no-go area.
    Last edited by The Deep; 15-02-2017 at 11:50 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • hairray
    • By hairray 15th Feb 17, 11:51 AM
    • 63 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    hairray
    Big cojones not required, just the desire to avoid an invoice for parking in my own space.

    Appreciate your suggestion.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 15th Feb 17, 9:14 PM
    • 31,495 Posts
    • 15,504 Thanks
    Quentin
    Bear in mind winning a hearing MCOL v the MA/Landowner over £50 for the time you have been put to will involve a minimum of a "real" £50 in court fees which you would have to pay yourself upfront, and only get back off the loser if you win.


    So make sure you think that's something you are prepared to put the time and effort into, and where a win isn't guaranteed
    • hairray
    • By hairray 14th Apr 17, 11:15 AM
    • 63 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    hairray
    Hey,

    So I was about to thank you Coupon Mad for your help. I didn't hear anything since my section 10 letter dated the 21st January and though all was good and they had dropped it.

    Then I receive this letter yesterday (dated 5 April 2017): https://ibb.co/hG310k

    Events since then:

    -The landowner informed me it would be forwarded to their legal department, I heard nothing and had no response from the words you put together for me mentioning previous cases, CPM directors are IAS directors etc.

    - No contact from CPM whatsoever.

    I hate to admit it, it's really getting to me and Im sure this process is supposed to make me feel like this so I cave in and pay them.

    I would be very grateful for your help.

    Regards
    • hairray
    • By hairray 14th Apr 17, 11:17 AM
    • 63 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    hairray
    Oh and although they claim to have contacted me, they haven't and Im assuming shouldn't of done under the section 10 notice.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 14th Apr 17, 12:02 PM
    • 109 Posts
    • 137 Thanks
    Johnersh
    Just tell DRP that it is disputed and you have advised CPM accordingly. You can restate that you have a leasehold entitlement to park, but be aware that they are paid by results (15% of fees recovered, so they won't stop writing immediately that you ask).

    Once they've written 3/4 letters they risk an allegation of harassment and it becomes uneconomic for them, so they'll stop.

    DRP letters often refer to recommending court action and test cases. They are not lawyers, cannot advise anyone on the law and all too often refer to the Beavis case as some kind of authority that all PCNs are enforceable. Nonsense.
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 14th Apr 17, 12:34 PM
    • 407 Posts
    • 770 Thanks
    safarmuk
    You are now in the Debt Collectors stage. Letters from DRP can be ignored as stated in the Newbies thread (however never ignore a real LBC or MCOL which is also said in the Newbies thread).

    You will receive several DRP letters, eventually one will offer you a discount to pay - it will go down to ~£125 - and then they will write to you but using a different letterhead (Gladstones).

    However always look out for that real LBC in case it comes at that point you have to defend yourself in the Small Claims Court with help from people on here. Whether this happens is not a certainty but it could happen 6 years from the event.

    Your best way to stop this is to get a cancellation and pressure the freeholder, builders, MA or whomever brought CPM in by continuously pressuring them. It is ludicrous that you get ticketed in your own bay but is becoming more and more common I am afraid. The PPCs rely on people paying (who do) straight away as opposed to people like you who realize it is unfair and challenge it.
    • hairray
    • By hairray 14th Apr 17, 1:39 PM
    • 63 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    hairray
    Thank you both your help and for giving me an idea of what the future holds.

    I have tried both a nice and assertive approach with the land owner, he informed me that he would be handing it over to the legal department, to which I received no response.

    Yesterday I emailed the CEO of the builder as I have been ignored on more than one occasion, Ive asked for his attention on the matter.
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 14th Apr 17, 1:47 PM
    • 407 Posts
    • 770 Thanks
    safarmuk
    Yesterday I emailed the CEO of the builder as I have been ignored on more than one occasion, Ive asked for his attention on the matter.
    That is a very good move. Good call.

    Does the builder have a social media profile? If so you can use that as well. Many companies do sit up and take notice once complaints hit their social media profiles complete with screenshots of (potentially innacurate) emails from their staff

    Another idea I would recommend would be that you set up a Facebook Group "Residents of XYZ" and leaflet your estate to get people on it (you will need to maintain admin rights over it to stop trolls and to maintain decorum etc.) This will prove an invaluable way for you to:
    1) Gauge opinion of this scheme
    2) Determine if others are experiencing the same problems as you and finding out what they have been told and;
    3) Later on sharing other problems that come up on the estate among leaseholders and tenants.

    When a connected group of leaseholders and tenants act together you will be amazed by what happens ... I know from experience.
    Last edited by safarmuk; 14-04-2017 at 1:50 PM.
    • hairray
    • By hairray 14th Apr 17, 3:14 PM
    • 63 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    hairray
    Hey Safarm,

    I would usually try the social media thing, only problem is I run a small local business and wait for it....cut one of the directors hair, he even agreed with me but can't do anything as it's not on his patch. You never know, they could revenge the bad feedback.

    The Facebook group is a great idea, Im going to try this as there are other communal issues that need to be rectified.

    Thank you for your advice!

    Kindest Regards,
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 14th Apr 17, 3:40 PM
    • 407 Posts
    • 770 Thanks
    safarmuk
    Just checking I understand this right. You cut the hair of one of the directors of the building company and "he thinks its wrong but can do nothing about it"? ... if that's the case I think you are having your leg pulled. The company who contracted the PPC has the ability to get it cancelled and if they can't they have entered into a terrible contract that they need to rectify. However up to you.

    If there is uptake, the Facebook group will likely be a revelation. I would think you will find other people in your exact same position. Good luck.
    Last edited by safarmuk; 14-04-2017 at 7:49 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Apr 17, 5:30 PM
    • 46,883 Posts
    • 60,192 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hey,

    So I was about to thank you Coupon Mad for your help. I didn't hear anything since my section 10 letter dated the 21st January and though all was good and they had dropped it.

    Then I receive this letter yesterday (dated 5 April 2017): https://ibb.co/hG310k
    Originally posted by hairray
    So you sent a Section 10 Objection to processing in January and they didn't reply at all, then passed that data on to debt collectors. They had 21 days to respond. So, put in an online concern to the ICO about UKCPM's mishandling of your data and ignoring a Section 10 DPA 'objection to processing'.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • hairray
    • By hairray 17th Apr 17, 10:20 AM
    • 63 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    hairray
    @Safarm - you are correct. It's crazy isn't it! Ive wrote a letter to residents to join the FB page, thank you for that suggestion!

    @Coupon - Others have suggested writing to DRP, should I send them a copy of the letter to CPM and inform them of my complaint to the ICO (I just tried reporting them however they're closed until Tuesday 18th April ), and also serve them a section 10 notice with a little that they have obtained my details illegally?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Apr 17, 11:40 AM
    • 46,883 Posts
    • 60,192 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    If you contact DRP at all (and I wouldn't) use their email and their 'reference' quoted:

    info@drpl.co.uk

    You MUST quote their ref (long number on their letter) not the PCN number only.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • hairray
    • By hairray 19th Apr 17, 10:09 AM
    • 63 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    hairray
    Hey Coupon,

    I won't contact them as per your advice and I will make the complaint today.

    Regards,
    R
    • hairray
    • By hairray 20th Apr 17, 4:08 PM
    • 63 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    hairray
    Hey everyone,

    Really grateful for everyones help so far.

    I received this email back from my complaints to the builder regarding the space.

    Coupon, this complaint included the letter you prepared for me containing the legal cases and pointing out my rights.

    Thank you for the e-mail dated 13th April to the CEO, to which I am responding on his behalf as Head of Customer Service. I am sorry to hear that you have not been happy with the service received from Customer Care. I have reviewed the e-mails between yourself and Liam Baird in regards to the parking ticket you received on 7th November 2016 for not displaying a valid parking permit. Please accept my apologies that Liam did not respond to your email dated the 10th February 2017.

    Unfortunately, as you have not displayed a valid permit in your car windscreen a ticket would have been issued. The purpose of the parking strategy is to stop people that are not entitled to park in allocated spaces at Kings Park to use the train facilities or the polyclinic in the local area. This strategy is used development wide and is successful in stopping unauthorized cars parking in the area.

    Also on the Home Tour demonstration checklist, it discusses the car parking and ongoing development issues / temporary arrangements, and the parking strategy would have been raised at that time. It states that all permits must be on show. CPM have also delivered to all properties a sealed envelope confirming the rules and restrictions during Sept/Oct 2016.

    As a result of the above, and noting that the IAS have rejected your initial complaint, I am unable to have your parking ticket revoked. I appreciate this may not be the answer you were hoping for, however as stated above, CPM acted in accordance with the rules and regulations of parking in your development.
    - At no point were car parking issues raised or discussed at any point during out home introduction. They just pointed our space out to us (and it happened to be the wrong space).

    - I didn't receive a permit, nor did Countryside ever mention the need to display one (other than the sign erected)

    - I couldn't park in my space for weeks as someone else was parked in my designated space where no one knew where to park, this was raised by the managing agents 1 month into our occupation.
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