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    • HappyCamper96
    • By HappyCamper96 18th Jan 17, 4:15 PM
    • 2Posts
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    HappyCamper96
    'Confirm where you are resident for tax purposes' letter has come through the post...
    • #1
    • 18th Jan 17, 4:15 PM
    'Confirm where you are resident for tax purposes' letter has come through the post... 18th Jan 17 at 4:15 PM
    I've been with Lloyds Bank for a while now, and I've lived in the UK all my life and never left the continent.

    I've received a letter through the post reportedly from Lloyds Bank which is black and white on all 7 pages of the letter, and asks me to write my DOB, my TIN number (I've never heard of that) and send it all off to:

    Lloyds Banking Group
    PO Box 841
    LS1 9QE

    The first paragraph reads: 'There has been a change in the international tax legislation which has introduced the Common Reporting Standard (CRS). It means financial institutions are required to report customers' account information based on their tax residence, to the tax authorities local to where their financial accounts are held.'

    It's signed off at the bottom with:

    Philip Robinson
    Director of Savings.

    As I've said, I have never been to the US, and I have been a UK Resident my whole life. Is this a scam letter, or a genuine letter? Thanks!
Page 1
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 18th Jan 17, 4:43 PM
    • 18,764 Posts
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    agrinnall
    • #2
    • 18th Jan 17, 4:43 PM
    • #2
    • 18th Jan 17, 4:43 PM
    It's a common question on here, and although in the past it's most often been HSBC that have asked for the information it seems that Lloyds and other banks are getting in on the act now. It's up to you whether you write back or not (a TIN is a Taxpayer Identification Number, it's highly unlikely that you'll have one) but if you don't they may keep asking, and eventually they may decide that they can't keep you as a customer.
    • HappyCamper96
    • By HappyCamper96 18th Jan 17, 4:51 PM
    • 2 Posts
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    HappyCamper96
    • #3
    • 18th Jan 17, 4:51 PM
    • #3
    • 18th Jan 17, 4:51 PM
    Thanks for the quick response.

    I know I'm probably being an idiot here, but does this mean the letter is legitimate and that I SHOULD reply? And is it correct to use your National Insurance Number as a 'TIN'?
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 18th Jan 17, 6:36 PM
    • 4,100 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    • #4
    • 18th Jan 17, 6:36 PM
    • #4
    • 18th Jan 17, 6:36 PM
    Thanks for the quick response.

    I know I'm probably being an idiot here, but does this mean the letter is legitimate and that I SHOULD reply? And is it correct to use your National Insurance Number as a 'TIN'?
    Originally posted by HappyCamper96
    I would put N/A in there, TINs are only appropriate to US citizens.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 18th Jan 17, 6:39 PM
    • 4,100 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    • #5
    • 18th Jan 17, 6:39 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Jan 17, 6:39 PM
    It's a common question on here, and although in the past it's most often been HSBC that have asked for the information it seems that Lloyds and other banks are getting in on the act now. It's up to you whether you write back or not (a TIN is a Taxpayer Identification Number, it's highly unlikely that you'll have one) but if you don't they may keep asking, and eventually they may decide that they can't keep you as a customer.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    Or maybe the OP should ditch Lloyds first.
    • HappyHarry
    • By HappyHarry 18th Jan 17, 7:27 PM
    • 468 Posts
    • 720 Thanks
    HappyHarry
    • #6
    • 18th Jan 17, 7:27 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Jan 17, 7:27 PM
    Thanks for the quick response.

    I know I'm probably being an idiot here, but does this mean the letter is legitimate and that I SHOULD reply? And is it correct to use your National Insurance Number as a 'TIN'?
    Originally posted by HappyCamper96
    Some of the providers I have used expect a national insurance number if uk tax resident.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser. Any comments I make here are intended for information / discussion only. Nothing I post here should be construed as advice. If you are looking for individual financial advice, please contact a local Independent Financial Adviser.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 18th Jan 17, 7:54 PM
    • 18,764 Posts
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    agrinnall
    • #7
    • 18th Jan 17, 7:54 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Jan 17, 7:54 PM
    It is legitimate, but as I say it's up to you whether you reply or not. If you do I would go along with the suggestion to use N/A for the TIN, if they want your NINO they can write again and ask for it.
    • realaledrinker
    • By realaledrinker 18th Jan 17, 11:31 PM
    • 1,521 Posts
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    realaledrinker
    • #8
    • 18th Jan 17, 11:31 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Jan 17, 11:31 PM
    There's a FAQ page within this request which clarifies what is required. From memory, PAYE Taxpayer Ref or NINO will suffice.
    Ethical moneysaver
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 19th Jan 17, 8:39 AM
    • 18,764 Posts
    • 14,470 Thanks
    agrinnall
    • #9
    • 19th Jan 17, 8:39 AM
    • #9
    • 19th Jan 17, 8:39 AM
    There's a FAQ page within this request which clarifies what is required. From memory, PAYE Taxpayer Ref or NINO will suffice.
    Originally posted by realaledrinker
    You're probably right, but neither of those is evidence that the OP doesn't have a TIN.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 19th Jan 17, 12:01 PM
    • 1,062 Posts
    • 1,128 Thanks
    badmemory
    It is unlikely to be a fraud, but as usual is badly enough done that it makes it look like a fraud. I suggest replying to it & taking it into a branch along with an appropriate letter stating just why it looks like a fraud. When you don't get the response letter in the stated timeframe ring them and again list all the reasons it looks like a fraud.

    There is a thread started on the 2 April 16 about the Halifax, despite promises they obviously haven't improved! If we complain long enough and loud enough they may just get their act together & start sending out decent paperwork. Enough £50 comp paid may make them do something but I'm not holding my breath.
    • nishap06
    • By nishap06 25th Jan 17, 9:40 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    nishap06
    I received the same letter from Halifax recently. I called the 0345 number on the letter and asked what the letter was about. The lady said it was from Halifax and they needed to confirm my residency (she didn't say why). I confirmed my address and that I live in the UK. The lady then said that's fine and I didn't need to return the form. She said a confirmation letter would be sent to me. I also did not give my NI number. So maybe try and call them first?


    P.s The 0345 number is a genuine number as it is on their website. You will be required to give key in your account details before being transferred for security purposes.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 25th Jan 17, 12:58 PM
    • 6,999 Posts
    • 12,608 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    Thanks for the quick response.

    I know I'm probably being an idiot here, but does this mean the letter is legitimate and that I SHOULD reply? And is it correct to use your National Insurance Number as a 'TIN'?
    Originally posted by HappyCamper96
    You can give your national insurance number or your UTR (HMRC's Unique Taxpayer Reference that you use on self assessment tax returns, if you do them). Both fit the bill for a taxpayer identifying number (TIN) in the UK. This should be explained in the definitions that come with the letter.

    If you were USA resident or citizen your Social Security Number would be your TIN. If resident in France, your "numero fiscal de reference" or "numero SPI". In Guernsey or Canada, you would locally call it your Social Insurance number, SIN. Aussies have a Tax File Number or TFN. And so on.

    Nearly all countries have tax ID numbers for individuals but they call them different things so Lloyds have simply captioned it using a generic term, because if they headed it up "National Insurance Number", a French resident might think he didn't have to fill it out because he didn't have one of those, when of course he does really have something equivalent.

    The Common Reporting Standard is a legitimate set of regulations being introduced in over 100 countries - new bank customers in the last year will have already had to declare their tax residency but banks need to go back and fill in the gaps on their massive existing customer base to support ongoing reporting.

    Below is the page on the OECD website where UK published its guidance to tell banks around the world that for UK people, NI numbers and UTRs were both valid types of TIN and where you would expect to find them:

    https://www.oecd.org/tax/automatic-exchange/crs-implementation-and-assistance/tax-identification-numbers/
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 25th Jan 17, 2:42 PM
    • 1,062 Posts
    • 1,128 Thanks
    badmemory
    I've just discovered that if you have online banking you can log into your account and do it all there. Now wouldn't that have been easier. That's Halifax by the way but I am assuming Lloyds will be the same (we all know what assume did though don't we). They had filled mine in presumably from the form & all that was missing was my town of birth. So thanks to LoopyLoop for posting about that!
    Last edited by badmemory; 25-01-2017 at 2:45 PM.
    • Gary1963
    • By Gary1963 15th Feb 17, 6:02 PM
    • 162 Posts
    • 127 Thanks
    Gary1963
    Could you say where in online banking?
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 15th Feb 17, 9:31 PM
    • 1,062 Posts
    • 1,128 Thanks
    badmemory
    It was in the section about personal details, where the phone number, email address etc is. Your profile, under change your details, it doesn't show in the initial part of the profile.
    • PAUL7331
    • By PAUL7331 25th Sep 17, 5:59 PM
    • 283 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    PAUL7331
    I've just discovered that if you have online banking you can log into your account and do it all there. Now wouldn't that have been easier. That's Halifax by the way but I am assuming Lloyds will be the same (we all know what assume did though don't we). They had filled mine in presumably from the form & all that was missing was my town of birth. So thanks to LoopyLoop for posting about that!
    Originally posted by badmemory

    I too have just had this letter. So to confirm, can you just log in to halifax online banking and confirm you are a UK resident on there? And then thats it?
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 25th Sep 17, 9:52 PM
    • 1,062 Posts
    • 1,128 Thanks
    badmemory
    It seems if the info is on your account they can't tell if you responded or if you did it yourself & so you don't get the nasty reminders.
    • Cook_County
    • By Cook_County 30th Sep 17, 1:35 PM
    • 2,903 Posts
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    Cook_County
    You have no legal obligation to reply. The financial institution has a legal duty to be compliant. You do not and can ignore these letters.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 30th Sep 17, 5:44 PM
    • 1,062 Posts
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    badmemory
    And the bank has every right to close your accounts because you did not comply
    • robusta
    • By robusta 5th Oct 17, 1:54 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    robusta
    You have no legal obligation to reply. The financial institution has a legal duty to be compliant. You do not and can ignore these letters.
    Originally posted by Cook_County
    Hi Cook_County,

    Thanks for your response.

    Are you sure there is no risk if we are not responding to the letter? I received it in France and I am resident abroad. I was thinking of calling and just try to see if this could be sorted by phone.

    R
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