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  • FIRST POST
    • maily
    • By maily 18th Jan 17, 12:24 PM
    • 30Posts
    • 21Thanks
    maily
    Gladstones - Court Case - Need some Advice
    • #1
    • 18th Jan 17, 12:24 PM
    Gladstones - Court Case - Need some Advice 18th Jan 17 at 12:24 PM
    Good Afternoon,

    I hope you are all well and my apologies i wasn't keen on starting my own thread but feel it might be best to i have been trying to read through all the information here and put together a defense of my own but feel a bit lost so figured perhaps it is time at last to post my own thread and seek advice from some of you more knowledgeable and helpful folk.

    I have been a lurker here for many years and do appreciate all the advice and people on this wonderful site.

    I have been doing a lot of reading on here regarding parking fines and LBCC and Gladstones solicitors. I have read several of your letters/responses as well as some from Coupon mad. I am now more confused and lost than ever i am not a lawyer so am not to sharp on some of the Legal terms.


    To cut a long story short my wife borrowed my mothers car in August 2016 and used to visit a shopping centre (Privately owned). She paid for 2 hours Parking, and was 2-3 minutes late getting back to the car due to the little one needing a change of nappy but by the time she got back to the car there was already a ticket on there stating she was 10 minutes late and no parking warden to be seen.

    We decided to just ignore the ticket from Euro Parking Services and letters that followed.However eventually we received a "letter before claim" from Gladstones threatening to take us to court. We did respond in the time allocated and basically tried to come to a settlement i believe using one of your templates i saw on the site. I offered them a sum of £15 as the car park costs £0.80 per hour and as she was an alleged 10 minutes over i thought £15 was more than fair to cover their losses however it was rejected straight away.

    Gladstones they kept persisting eventually we gave up as i thought if this does go to court my mother won't do to well there and it's better to name the actual driver my Wife who might fair better in court. It went quiet for a few months and now they have sent my wife a dodgy letter before claim and demanding £150!!!

    The letter before claim doesn't follow the practice direction as far as i am aware it just demands money as it doesn't give us any further details.

    I was hoping you would be kind enough to offer some time/advice if you have the time to do so. We would both appreciate it eternally.

    I will take a picture of the letter they have sent us if that will help and upload it later?

    Thank you for taking the time to read this and look forward to your advice i think in hindsight perhaps i should have started this thread sooner rather than try to cope with this on my own it's rather stressful!!!
    Last edited by maily; 04-10-2017 at 12:40 PM.
Page 3
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Mar 17, 2:17 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Sounds very reasonable!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 23rd Mar 17, 2:24 PM
    • 1,756 Posts
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    Loadsofchildren123
    Completely reasonable. Block out six weeks and say why, I'd block out 2 weeks before her EDD and 4 weeks after (assuming your first came round about on time and there's no history of early deliveries).


    If the date is set for a convenient date, but the baby comes early or late, or if there are any health-related reasons why she can't come to court on the allocated day, as soon as possible after whatever it is happens you can apply for an adjournment on the basis that she isn't fit to attend court and explain why.


    The lay rep thing is actually in the small claims Practice Direction, it's annoying that the judges and clerks don't even know the rules (but C-M is right, take the lay rep order with you for safety's sake).
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 23rd Mar 17, 2:51 PM
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    Loadsofchildren123
    Practice Direction 27 says:

    Representation at a hearing

    3.1 In this paragraph:
    (1) a lawyer means a barrister, a solicitor or a legal executive employed by a solicitor, and
    (2) a lay representative means any other person.
    3.2
    (1) A party may present his own case at a hearing or a lawyer or lay representative may present it for him.
    (2) The Lay Representatives (Right of Audience) Order 1999 provides that a lay representative may not exercise any right of audience:–
    (a) where his client does not attend the hearing;
    (b) at any stage after judgment; or
    (c) on any appeal brought against any decision made by the district judge in the proceedings.
    (3) However the court, exercising its general discretion to hear anybody, may hear a lay representative even in circumstances excluded by the Order.
    (4) Any of its officers or employees may represent a corporate party.


    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27/pd_part27


    I've added the red to show my general annoyance at judges who don't know the rules.
    • maily
    • By maily 23rd Mar 17, 3:07 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    maily
    Thank you both!!! So lucky to have such helpful and wonderful people like you both on these Forums takes so much stress out of such matters!!! I've never dealt with a court ever before only went during my 2 weeks work experience in School so have no idea what is or isn't considered reasonable on my part always try and conduct myself in a sensible and fair way
    • maily
    • By maily 24th May 17, 10:31 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    maily
    Hey Guys,

    Small update from me After sending of the N180 directions paperwork and requesting an Oral hearing at my local court we did get a court date but that got pulled. We then received paperwork on the 12/05/17 stating that we need to respond by the 24/05/17 (4pm).

    This letter is from my local county court and states:
    -------------------------------------------
    Upon consideration of the matter

    It is ordered that:

    1. The defendant must confirm by 4pm on 24 may 2017 whether she consents to the matter being dealt with as a paper hearing i.e. in the absence of the parties.

    2. If the defendant does not resend or consent then the matter will be directed to a hearing where the parties must attend.

    Dated 10 May 2017 (Although at the top it states 12 May 2017....)

    -----------------------------------

    As i already requested a Oral hearing at my local court surprised i received this.

    I have responded:

    "In regards to this claim and the correspondence received dated for the 12/05/17.

    I do not consent to this matter being dealt with a papers only hearing and would like to have an oral hearing where i believe i can represent myself fairly."
    • dioscoredes
    • By dioscoredes 28th May 17, 1:45 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    dioscoredes
    LBCCC - force the issue
    Looking for an opinion on this. Can a defendant in a parking ticket penalty case, having received an LBCC, actually force the case to be heard in Court themselves. Thanks.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 28th May 17, 1:54 PM
    • 15,926 Posts
    • 24,689 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Looking for an opinion on this. Can a defendant in a parking ticket penalty case, having received an LBCC, actually force the case to be heard in Court themselves. Thanks.
    Originally posted by dioscoredes
    You will be better starting off a new thread of your own where you will receive some opinions. Posting on this random thread is likely to set it off on a tangent.

    Please start a new thread.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • maily
    • By maily 26th Sep 17, 3:29 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    maily
    HI Guys,

    Just to give you an update and get some more advice.

    My wife has given Birth to a beautiful baby girl on the 20th of September!!! :-)

    We also received a letter from my local county court informing me that the claimant (Euro Parking) has to pay their court fees by the 19th of September else it would be struck out.

    I have rang the county court today who couldn't tell me if the fees had been paid or not but to assume that the hearing will still go ahead on the 17th of October.


    I haven't been asked to fill in any more paperwork or a witness statement so what happens next??

    I was informed by the lady i spoke to in the court that we are not allowed to bring our new born baby with us either?

    I have also been advised by the lady that as i don't have prior permission from a judge i would not be allowed into to the hearing myself and even if i am on the day most likely i would not be allowed to speak on behalf of my wife????

    Just looking for some advice on what i can do about this really.

    Thanks you!!
    • safarmuk
    • By safarmuk 26th Sep 17, 3:36 PM
    • 613 Posts
    • 1,125 Thanks
    safarmuk
    I have also been advised by the lady that as i don't have prior permission from a judge i would not be allowed into to the hearing myself and even if i am on the day most likely i would not be allowed to speak on behalf of my wife????
    Garbage, just take a copy of the layperson documentation with you and you can attend as your wife's layperson no problem, BUT, if you are her layperson she must attend also which I suspect is where the baby question comes from ... that I don't know the answer to ... but it seems plausible so be prepared that you may need to find someone to look after your baby that day as both your wife (defendant) and you (layperson) must attend.

    And by the way, congratulations!
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 26th Sep 17, 3:39 PM
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    Loadsofchildren123
    I have also been advised by the lady that as i don't have prior permission from a judge i would not be allowed into to the hearing myself and even if i am on the day most likely i would not be allowed to speak on behalf of my wife????
    Ignore this - she's wrong. Most of the admin staff at court don't know the rules. Look at my previous post at lay reps. In small claims you have an automatic right to use a lay rep but in other claims you don't. Your wife must be present with you though.


    in relation to the baby, I'd just take her along if that's what you need to do. There is no rule that says you can't. Stopping her bringing the baby into court - if she's breastfeeding a baby under 26 weeks then I think it would be discrimination under the Equality Act. If they won't allow the baby in then you have to ask for the hearing to be moved to a date when she could leave the baby with a relative/isn't breastfeeding any more.
    TBH it just sounds like you spoke to a complete numpty and I'd ignore what they said.


    I haven't been asked to fill in any more paperwork or a witness statement so what happens next??
    Didn't the order that set the hearing date for 17 October tell you a date when you had to serve your witness statement and documents? If not, what exactly did the order say?
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 26th Sep 17, 3:40 PM
    • 1,756 Posts
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    Loadsofchildren123
    Or could a relative come to court with you and keep the baby in the waiting room while you're in court?
    • maily
    • By maily 30th Sep 17, 10:06 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    maily
    So guys another update thank you for the previous replies i think this is a good update.

    The last letter telling me the coirt date also mentioned the claimant had to pay the coirt hearing fee before a certain date.

    Today i received a letter from the court stating:

    The claimant has failed to pay the fee.

    Therefore the claim has been struckout and the hearing on 17th October has been vacated.

    Does this mean it's all over and we've won?

    Will they raise a new claim against us in the future?

    Why go this far too drop the claim now just seems to good to be true?? They've takwn other people to court so why not us?
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 30th Sep 17, 10:57 PM
    • 6,470 Posts
    • 8,293 Thanks
    beamerguy
    So guys another update thank you for the previous replies i think this is a good update.

    The last letter telling me the coirt date also mentioned the claimant had to pay the coirt hearing fee before a certain date.

    Today i received a letter from the court stating:

    The claimant has failed to pay the fee.

    Therefore the claim has been struckout and the hearing on 17th October has been vacated.

    Does this mean it's all over and we've won?

    Will they raise a new claim against us in the future?

    Why go this far too drop the claim now just seems to good to be true?? They've takwn other people to court so why not us?
    Originally posted by maily
    This is why everyone says, including the courts, that
    Gladstones are incompetent

    Chill ... they only get one chance of being stupid, they fluffed it
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 2nd Oct 17, 10:32 AM
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    Loadsofchildren123
    They could potentially issue another claim within the 6 year limitation period. The claim has been struck out for a failure to comply with the rules, not dismissed. You'd ask for any new claim to be struck out as an abuse of process. However, you might not win on that, particularly as it was just the court fee they didn't pay (they'd say this was an admin error), rather than any really substantive breach of the rules:


    http://www.hardwicke.co.uk/insights/archive/articles/a-second-bite-of-the-cherry-can-a-claimant-bring-a-fresh-claim-having-failed-to-obtain-relief-from-sanctions
    • maily
    • By maily 4th Oct 17, 11:25 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    maily
    Thanks for the above comments so what is my best course of action going forward?

    So during no point in the process did any court letter to me mention a witness statement. The last letter we received told me the claim has been struckout.

    Today 4th october we receive paperwork from gladstones with an attached claimant witness statement signed with todays date after the case has already been struckout?? I'm a bit confused.

    Also on the witness ststement it's addressed to a Mr "wifes name" which is strange as they do have her proper name and title. The court itself has been writing to a mrs....

    They also quoted lots of crap like bevis in the witness statement lol And claim a letter before claim was sent to me haha.

    Whats next? Have they paid the fee last minute and everything will continue as normal I'm very confused right now.
    Last edited by maily; 04-10-2017 at 12:41 PM. Reason: typo
    • maily
    • By maily 4th Oct 17, 1:00 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    maily
    I have just read through the witness statement and have found a few incosistencies:

    1. A spelling mistake in the signage " Breach of any term or condition will result int he driver beign liable FOA A parking charge of £100".

    2. They mentioned my £15 offer and said they didn't accept this due to it opening the floodgates for other people trying the same thing my offer was made without prejudice....

    I can post the rest of the witness statement but really am looking for some advice as to why i have been sent a witness statement when i received the letter from the court last week telling me the case has been struckout is there an chance the fee was paid last minute and therefore the case might still proceed on the 17th?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 4th Oct 17, 1:25 PM
    • 1,166 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    1) Irrelevant
    2) slightly relevant but not something a court will struggle with

    CALL THE COURT, see if they have reinstated it. They should not do so HOWEVER it is possible.
    It is also possible they just had this queued to be printed and mailed out, and noone stopped it. Remember these are incompetent people.

    And I disagree that the paperwork did not tell you to write a WS. It will have done - just they will have called it "documents" that must be exchanged. Usually 14 days before the hearing, hence why it has come through now
    RECHECK your hearing date letter, the initial one, and I bet you it is in there.
    • maily
    • By maily 7th Oct 17, 8:17 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    maily
    1) Irrelevant
    2) slightly relevant but not something a court will struggle with

    CALL THE COURT, see if they have reinstated it. They should not do so HOWEVER it is possible.
    It is also possible they just had this queued to be printed and mailed out, and noone stopped it. Remember these are incompetent people.

    And I disagree that the paperwork did not tell you to write a WS. It will have done - just they will have called it "documents" that must be exchanged. Usually 14 days before the hearing, hence why it has come through now
    RECHECK your hearing date letter, the initial one, and I bet you it is in there.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001

    none of the paper work i have received so far mentions exchanging of documents or timelines for doing this!!! i have read thru it all throughly especially the last letter giving us a hearing date!!!

    I have received a letter today stating that there has now been evidence that Gladstones have paid the court fee and they have re-instated the trial date of the 17th?

    As this was the courts mistake can i request a new hearing date at their own cost???

    Also i need to file a witness statement ASAP! Any tips or ideas of what tthis should include? and does the witness statement need to be sent to the court and Gladstones?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 7th Oct 17, 9:53 AM
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    • 24,689 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Also i need to file a witness statement ASAP! Any tips or ideas of what tthis should include? and does the witness statement need to be sent to the court and Gladstones?
    All contained within the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2, including examples.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Ricky R2D2
    • By Ricky R2D2 8th Oct 17, 2:15 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Ricky R2D2
    R2d2
    Has anybody got any advice for me for a letter received from Gladstone Solicitors
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