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  • FIRST POST
    • loosegoose
    • By loosegoose 9th Jan 17, 9:44 PM
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    loosegoose
    HELP Vcs private land pcn derby
    • #1
    • 9th Jan 17, 9:44 PM
    HELP Vcs private land pcn derby 9th Jan 17 at 9:44 PM
    hi, I received a vcs pnc windscreen ticket yesterday for parking on private land, the driver was less than two minutes whilst delivering a parcel to one of the properties and returned to find a pcn with a £100 charge! iv read through some of the threads on here but would like some advice as where to start contesting this ticket, what do I have to do first? thanks

    Quick Reply
    Thanks
    Last edited by loosegoose; 09-01-2017 at 9:46 PM.
Page 2
    • loosegoose
    • By loosegoose 16th Feb 17, 9:41 PM
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    loosegoose
    ok , other than that its ready to submit?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Feb 17, 10:06 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Yes, as long as it now flows as one letter. The draft above looked like two because 'Dear VCS' was in the middle instead of at the start.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • loosegoose
    • By loosegoose 16th Feb 17, 10:36 PM
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    loosegoose
    on the appeal form its asking for my reason from a multiple choice menu, I have selected the contravention not occur with my selected reason being ," I did not park for the stated time", is this correct or would "my vehicle is permitted to park and is on a vehicle exemptions (white list) " be more suitable? thanks.
    Last edited by loosegoose; 16-02-2017 at 10:45 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Feb 17, 11:04 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Second one, I would say, in your case, because the vehicle was permitted to park to make a delivery, as the Jopson case proves, otherwise life in a block of flats/residences would be ''unworkable''.

    You've got that in your challenge letter, not that we expect the PPC to give up this early, but start as you mean to go on, you have the moral and legal high ground here, we would argue.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 17th Feb 17, 8:28 AM
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    The Deep
    Have you contacted the person whose parcel this was? Thet may well wish to take issue with the MA about the predatory practices of their agents, contrary to the wellbeing and best interests of the residents.

    Some delivery companies when faced with this nonsense may well refuse to deliver to this building.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • loosegoose
    • By loosegoose 27th Feb 17, 9:37 PM
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    loosegoose
    hi no I don't know the person directly or have not met in person, was delivering for a fovour for friend of a friend so to speak, I get your point tho may be worth following up, il wait and see what the outcome of my appeal letter is first I think. thanks
    • loosegoose
    • By loosegoose 13th Mar 17, 8:52 PM
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    loosegoose
    ok after submitting my appeal letter to VCS this is the reply iv received from them. should I be giving them the details there asking for?


    Site: Shetland Close Residents Parking Spaces Issue date: 31/01/2017

    We refer to your correspondence received in connection with the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

    Please note that responsibility for this PCN lies with the driver of the vehicle at the time the parking contravention was observed. However, we are unable to ascertain who the driver was from the information given within your appeal.
    In order for us to process your appeal correctly, please follow the instructions below.

    The following options are available:

    1. Notify the driver of the vehicle that they will need to appeal to us directly, including their FULL NAME (Forename and Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE ADDRESS within 14 days.

    2. If you are representing the driver we require a signed and dated statement from the driver of the vehicle confirming that you are authorised to appeal on his/her behalf. This statement MUST contain the drivers FULL NAME (Forename and Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE ADDRESS. This needs to be an original signature and not a photocopy or a stamp.

    3. Pay the PCN. Payments can be made online at www.myparkingcharge.co.uk by following the links for "Pay Now", or over the phone by calling 0845 226 9138 by using a valid Credit or Debit Card. (If paying by Credit Card a surcharge of £1.00 will apply).

    At present, the required payment of £60 is outstanding and payment is to be made by 23 March 2017. If the payment is not received by this date the amount payable will revert to £100 payable. Failure to comply may result in the issue of court proceedings whereby further costs will be incurred.

    As a gesture of good-will, we have placed the case file on hold for an additional 14 Days to enable the above mentioned actions to be administered. If we receive either no payment or further communication by 23 March 2017 the right to appeal may be lost and the charge will revert to the original (nondiscounted) rate.
    Yours sincerely,




    Appeals Administration Team Central Processing Office
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Mar 17, 9:41 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Dear VCS,

    Re: PCN xxxxxxx

    I have received your letter where you say: ''However, we are unable to ascertain who the driver was from the information given within your appeal.''

    Good.

    I am pleased to see you admit you have no evidence as to who you might have allegedly contracted with, let alone any cause of action. Moreover, you are refusing to consider an appeal without the appellant stating who the driver was - have you forgotten that the DVLA stated that insisting on being told who was driving in order to consider an appeal, is not allowed? I am minded to report VCS to Mr Dunford at the DVLA for this misleading response.

    I remind you that you have already been made aware that the driver was delivering a parcel. Such a short-term delivery is permitted unloading activity, not 'parking' (nor a breach of any parking terms). Such deliveries are undoubtedly covered by the lease. Clearly, life in a block of flats would be unworkable without such activity being safe from predatory practices such as undertaken by the likes of VCS. Modern residential leases include (either implied or express) easements and/or rights of access to the flats, which take precedence over any third party parking signs.

    The persuasive authority for this complete defence is covered by the decision as set out in Jopson v Home Guard Appeal case. I suggest you read the transcript to this case (helpfully hosted on the Parking Prankster site which you are no doubt familiar with). The case was heard at Oxford County Court in June 2016 and this was an Appeal case, decided by a Senior Circuit Judge; another master-stroke by the controlling minds at Gladstones in assisting motorists to defend utterly spurious charges like this one.

    As a gesture of goodwill, I will not pursue VCS for data misuse and will not report you to the DVLA or Information Commissioner, if you confirm the charge is cancelled within 14 days of this letter.

    yours faithfully,
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 13-03-2017 at 10:05 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • loosegoose
    • By loosegoose 13th Mar 17, 9:48 PM
    • 27 Posts
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    loosegoose
    much appreciated thankyou.
    • Ian011
    • By Ian011 14th Mar 17, 8:49 PM
    • 1,725 Posts
    • 965 Thanks
    Ian011
    3. Pay the PCN. Payments can be made online at www.myparkingcharge.co.uk by following the links for "Pay Now", or over the phone by calling 0845 226 9138 by using a valid Credit or Debit Card. (If paying by Credit Card a surcharge of £1.00 will apply).
    Originally posted by loosegoose
    The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 were published by BIS (now BEIS) in December 2013 and came into force on 13 June 2014.

    Regulation 41 does not permit the use of premium rate 084, 087 or 09 numbers for dealing with 'contracts entered into with a trader'.

    The sending of a PCN, effectively an invoice, assumes that just such a contract has been entered into.

    The usage of a premium rate 0845 number is therefore in breach of Regulation 41.


    Ofcom published regulations in December 2013 that came into force on 1 July 2015 and require all users of 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers to publish call costs alongside the number wherever the number is advertised or promoted.

    Call costs are missing in the notice, and this is a breach of the Ofcom regulations.
    Last edited by Ian011; 14-03-2017 at 8:56 PM.
    • loosegoose
    • By loosegoose 3rd Apr 17, 5:37 PM
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    loosegoose
    So this is the latest reply iv received, my appeal has been rejected as assumed.

    Site: Shetland Close Residents Parking Spaces Issue date: 31/01/2017
    We refer to your appeal in respect of the above Charge Notice received on 24/03/2017.
    It is important we highlight that we will continue to pursue the matter on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver of the vehicle on the date in question until information/evidence to the contrary is provided.
    Having considered the points you have raised and reviewed our records, we are unable to accept your appeal. Our main reason(s) for this decision are as follows:
    Signage states that valid permits are to be displayed when parking on site. As your vehicle was observed not displaying a valid permit, the Notice was issued correctly. For clarification, you may view our photographic evidence by visiting www.myparkingcharge.co.uk. Alternative parking should have been sought in these circumstances.
    What you should do next - Either:

    1. Pay the Charge Notice: In order to settle the Charge, the payment of £60 to reach us by 17/04/2017 or £100 to reach us by 01/05/2017 must be made. Failure to pay this charge within the stated times, may result in Debt Recovery Action being taken and further costs up to an additional £60 being incurred.

    Payments can be made online at www.myparkingcharge.co.uk by following the links for "Pay Now", or over the phone by calling 0845 226 9138 by using a valid Credit or Debit Card. (If paying by Credit Card a surcharge of £1.00 will apply).

    OR:

    2. Appeal to the Independent Appeals Services (IAS):If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the IAS. In order to appeal, the IAS will need the following information (which is also contained in the subject header of this correspondence).
    Notice Serial No: vcsXXXXXX Vehicle Registration Mark:XXXXXX
    03 April 2017
    Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this correspondence. Please visit www.theias.org for full details on how to submit an appeal online.

    It is important you note that if you wish to appeal to the IAS and your appeal is unsuccessful, the discount offer will no longer apply and the full amount of £100 will be pursued. Please be aware that if a payment is made against the PCN prior to lodging an appeal with the IAS, or receiving adjudication from the IAS, and if it is accepted as Full and Final settlement of the PCN, any appeal to the IAS will automatically be dismissed.

    It important I also highlight that no further appeals will be accepted at this office; any such appeal must be made to the IAS.
    Please also note that further costs may be incurred should it be necessary for us to subsequently recover any outstanding charge using debt recovery and/or court action.
    Yours sincerely,
    Appeals Administration Team CENTRAL PROCESSING OFFICE
    Last edited by loosegoose; 03-04-2017 at 5:39 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Apr 17, 9:00 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    As expected, so the advice is the same as on all the other frantic threads I am fast getting bored with answering tonight ''are you sure, can I ignore it, why not do IAS, what will happen if I ignore, no I haven't read the NEWBIES thread because I couldn't see something specific to parking a green Citroen outside a greengrocers on Christmas Day...''

    Sorry, I digress; the advice is in the NEWBIES thread already though.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • loosegoose
    • By loosegoose 3rd Apr 17, 9:57 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    loosegoose
    thanks for your help and advice along the way,but based on what iv read about the IAS (kangaroo court) appeal stage in the newbies thread it sounds like not much point in continuing, il just pay the fine and be done with it . thanks again
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Apr 17, 9:59 PM
    • 48,453 Posts
    • 61,890 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Woah...and in doing so you support and sponsor the scam. No thanks...

    YOU will be the person funding the next PCNs against more victims if you pay. That's not the example I would want to set my adult children, don't know abut anyone else but paying a scam isn't something to crow about.

    You were delivering a parcel - your situation is covered by the JOPSON Appeal, as a persuasive authority in defence.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 03-04-2017 at 10:02 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • loosegoose
    • By loosegoose 3rd Apr 17, 10:18 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    loosegoose
    yes but the scamers know that the IAS favours the parking firms which is why less than 20% of cases are successful against IAS ,it is not recommended to start an IAS appeal unless you have very rare circumstances (even then not much chance) , my only option is to submit an appeal which they will dismiss instantly and then have to deal with debt collector letters and go to small claims court with the odds against me resulting in a £200 bill instead of £60.
    Last edited by loosegoose; 03-04-2017 at 10:21 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Apr 17, 10:50 PM
    • 48,453 Posts
    • 61,890 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    ...the odds against you at a small claim hearing? We win 99% of cases.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Apr 17, 9:24 AM
    • 13,648 Posts
    • 21,419 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Sometimes it's hard to help on here. We can't win them all.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • loosegoose
    • By loosegoose 4th Apr 17, 7:10 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    loosegoose
    sorry yesterday was a bad day, iv read the IAS again with a clearer head, from what Iv read i understand I can appeal to the IAS (which seems pointless) or sit and wait for debt collection letters basically?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Apr 17, 8:51 PM
    • 13,648 Posts
    • 21,419 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Catching on!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • loosegoose
    • By loosegoose 9th Jun 17, 3:56 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    loosegoose
    Hi, well after 2 months of hearing nothing at all, i today have recieved a letter from VCS headed NOTICE OF INTENDED COURT PROCEEDINGS, is this whats known as a LBC letter? thanks
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