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  • FIRST POST
    • Sploing
    • By Sploing 8th Jan 17, 12:25 PM
    • 14Posts
    • 15Thanks
    Sploing
    Passed onto a different firm despite SRA complaint, what now?
    • #1
    • 8th Jan 17, 12:25 PM
    Passed onto a different firm despite SRA complaint, what now? 8th Jan 17 at 12:25 PM
    Hello,

    I'm new to the forum but have been following some of the linked threads for some time, I was hoping somebody may be able to offer some guidance on where to go next.

    The story so far is:

    My mother received a LBA letter from Civil Enforcement LTD demanding £140 dated 05/10/16 (The postmark was from 10/10 and she received it on 11th or 12th), this related to an alleged breach of the terms and conditions of one of the car parks they manage on 27/06/16.

    Unwisely she ignored the original PCN's and only told me about the issue when the LBA arrived.

    The LBA was, predictably, lacking in detail and she responded on 24/10 with a letter pointing out that their LBA was not compliant with the Practise Direction and that, since it contained so little detail, she was not able to offer a response at the time.

    She requested they send a PD compliant LBA within 30 days and warned that failure to do so would result in a complaint being made to the SRA. She did not receive a response.

    On 25/11/16 she sent another letter pointing out that she had not yet received a PD compliant LBA and reiterating that she was not able to respond without one, she also outlined exactly where the initial LBA deviated from the PD and again, asked for a response within 30 days and also invited them to issue a POPLA code, she also informed them she had made a complaint to the SRA.

    The complaint to the SRA was made on 25/11/16, she received an acknowledgement from them on 07/12/16 saying they would investigate and hoped to reply to her by 03/01/17 (They haven't as yet)

    On 25/11/16 she received a letter from ZZPS debt collectors demanding £200, which she ignored.

    On 09/12/16 she received another letter from ZZPS threatening to pass it on to their solicitors, which she ignored.

    On 03/01/17 she received a letter from Wright Hassall solicitors purporting to be acting for ZZPS who in turn are acting for CEL demanding £236 and threatening to pass it to their litigation department.

    I'm no expert but my understanding was that once a complaint was made to the SRA it put the action on hold until it has been investigated, passing it to another firm of solicitors seems like a cynical way of subverting this, especially when CEL hasn't responded to a single letter from my mother.

    Incidentally, my mother was, and is able to prove that she was not even in the country on this date.

    My initial though is to respond to (The aptly named) Wright Hassall acknowledging their letter and pointing out that CEL's own solicitors (Namely Michael SCHWARTZ) are already pursuing this claim which is subject to an SRA investigation and that they should decide between themselves who is actually pursuing any claim.

    Is anyone able to offer any advice/guidance please?

    Thanks in advance.

    Sploing.
    Last edited by Sploing; 08-01-2017 at 1:29 PM. Reason: Removal of personal info
Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Jan 17, 12:24 AM
    • 44,299 Posts
    • 57,011 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Seconded.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Sploing
    • By Sploing 22nd Jan 17, 12:03 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Sploing
    So here is the response from WH, needless to say I haven't received one from CEL:

    "With reference to your recent correspondence, the contents of which have been duly noted.
    When you received the initial notification of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) it will have stated the date of tre PCN. whch will usually be called the contravention date, you had g days from this date in which you

    could have appealed the PCN. Upon receipt of a response to the appeal you will have been provided with a Parking on Private Land Appeals (POPLA) reference.

    POPLA is independent of all parties to appeals, including the operator and the British Parking Association, as are the Assessors who make the determinations. An appeal to POPLA must have been made within

    28 days. As you have not appealed within this timeframe your account has been passed to ourselves to recover.

    Please note if you can provide proof that you have an appeal which was either upheld or is being dealt With by POPLA we will be happy to action your case accordingly.

    Our client feels there is sufficient evidence to pursue this PCN and have maintained their instruction to recover the outstanding balance.

    in light of the comments made about your correspondence with Mr Schwartz we have referred this to our client and the matter will remain on hold during this time.

    We look forward to hearing from you in regards to this matter. "

    I'm planning to write back along the lines of "This is the Nth time you've threatened to sue me, if you're so confident just get on with it"

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 22nd Jan 17, 12:07 PM
    • 11,830 Posts
    • 18,041 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I'm planning to write back along the lines of "This is the Nth time you've threatened to sue me, if you're so confident just get on with it"

    Any thoughts?
    The way to deal with a bully is often with a sharp smack to the snout; I believe telling them to get on with it will deliver!
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 22-01-2017 at 12:15 PM.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 22nd Jan 17, 12:15 PM
    • 6,168 Posts
    • 4,973 Thanks
    The Deep
    You have previously been told about data Protection issues, have you read this?


    http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/data-protection-act/
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Sploing
    • By Sploing 22nd Jan 17, 12:28 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Sploing
    Yes, I mentioned the DPA issues in my last letter to them
    • Sploing
    • By Sploing 29th Jan 17, 1:41 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Sploing
    It's taken me a while but this is my response to the letter I posted above, I'd be grateful to hear your thoughts, thanks.

    Sploing

    "Dear Mr Hawker,

    Thank you for your letter dated 18th January 2017, unfortunately, but somewhat predictably, I have not received a reply to my letter of 10th January 2017 from Mr. Schwartz.

    With regards to your comments about POPLA I should point out that in my previous correspondence with Mr. Schwartz I informed him in no uncertain terms that his claim was disputed and invited him to issue a POPLA reference so that the matter might be dealt with swiftly, needless to say I received no response from Mr. Schwartz to that or indeed any other letter.

    Mr. Schwartz’s failings aside, I am sure you aware that the existence or otherwise of a determination by POPLA has little to no bearing on the likelihood of your client’s case succeeding.

    Since your client’s Notices to Keeper do not comply with the provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 limiting them to pursuing the driver and not the registered keeper their only prospect of success would be to prove that I was, in fact, he driver at the time of the incident; this will be impossible since, as I have already made clear and demonstrated, I was not in the UK at the time.

    You mention that your client feels there is sufficient evidence to pursue this PCN; I suggest that if your client really were so confident in their claim they would have simply issued it immediately following their Letter Before Action dated 5th October 2016.

    Finally, my letter to you dated 10th January 2017 made it clear that you were to treat it as a notice under S.10 of the Data Protection Act, your reply dated 18th January 2017 made no reference to how you plan to address my complaint about you mishandling my personal data, as such I will be making a complaint to the ICO and will consider seeking damages for the distress caused by your continued breaches of data protection."
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 29th Jan 17, 2:55 PM
    • 38,200 Posts
    • 76,399 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    You have one minor typo, but it looks good to me otherwise.

    Since your client’s Notices to Keeper do not comply with the provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 limiting them to pursuing the driver and not the registered keeper their only prospect of success would be to prove that I was, in fact, he driver at the time of the incident; this will be impossible since, as I have already made clear and demonstrated, I was not in the UK at the time.

    Of course, the driver may well have been a he.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Sploing
    • By Sploing 18th Mar 17, 9:21 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Sploing
    Just a quick update for you all.

    Firstly, thanks for all the help.

    Secondly the companies involved have now given up chasing my mum, I would like to pursue them for the breaches of DPA but she's just happy it's gone away and so I'll probably leave it there.

    Finally, the complaint I made to the SRA about Michael SCHWARTZ has been dealt with as follows:

    "On 23 February 2017 Mr Schwartz appeared before the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal. The Tribunal ordered that Mr Schwartz be suspended from practise as a solicitor for a period of 5 years with effect from 9 September 2016"

    I'm chalking this one up as a win.

    Thanks again,

    Sploing
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Mar 17, 2:31 PM
    • 44,299 Posts
    • 57,011 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Well done! We known about the Schwartz situation as there were various complaints about him.

    Have they confirmed they have stopped, or has it gone quiet? If the latter, keep all the paperwork in case they resurrect it with a claim much later on, years later.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

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