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  • FIRST POST
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 22nd Dec 16, 10:14 PM
    • 92Posts
    • 36Thanks
    daffas6688
    pcm parking ticket but disabled
    • #1
    • 22nd Dec 16, 10:14 PM
    pcm parking ticket but disabled 22nd Dec 16 at 10:14 PM
    I have recieved a parking ticket on a private housing estate. The company is Parking Control Management of Slough. It isn't a police or official council one.
    I have a bad back and have difficulty in walking, some days worse than others. This particular day I went to collect my grand daughter from after school club, and was in particular pain, so didn't park 400 yards away in supermarket as I usually do. The school is on a private housing estate , with no provision near school for disabled parking. I sat in my car , on a bit of pavement, not even double yellow lines. I was in the vehicle with the badge displayed. I was too busy looking in school door to notice someone taking a photo of my car!I was there for 2 to 3 minutes.I know I have to appeal but want to know about this clause on their notice quoting Protections of Freedoms Act Schedule 4. I feel this is unfair to people with blue badges and my car was causing no trouble at all. What should I say in the appeal which I know will get thrown out. I feel like saying take me to court to save the hassle as believe they don't like doing that as it costs them too much. Also I feel I would win anyway. Any advice please.Thanks Dee
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    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 9th Sep 17, 9:21 AM
    • 92 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    daffas6688
    Morning. I am editing version of witness statement with Coupon-mad's help. I just need advice from anyone about before I try and get it in the post today. Do I include my original appeal to PCM? The evidence I gave to MCOL business centre or will my local court already have that? Also do I include the refusal to cancel parking charge from Estate manager? Any advise gratefully received. Thank you
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Sep 17, 12:26 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Include everything you might want to talk about and rely on. If you attached evidence to the first defence you should not have done, and it's needed now. Your local court will not have it.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 10th Sep 17, 8:59 PM
    • 92 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    daffas6688
    Sorry to be a pain but can't seem to work out what email address for Gladstones Knutsford to forward my witness statement etc to. The only one I have if for payment. Online I can only find one for enquiries. Anyone got any ideas?
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 13th Sep 17, 8:56 PM
    • 92 Posts
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    daffas6688
    Have sent my w/s etc to the court. As for emailing Gladstones with the exact same I have hit a problem.I have phoned several times but both their telephone lines go onto a queue with music, on a promise that ' your call is important to us'. I wanted to enquire about what email address to forward it to. I have sent to their enquiries email address as the payment one would be of no good. I asked them to acknowledge my emails , but surprise surprise no reply. Do you think they do this to make you worry? Maybe they do this regularly. Can only hope that maybe I will finally get through.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Sep 17, 9:05 PM
    • 51,537 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    Post it then?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 27th Sep 17, 8:36 PM
    • 92 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    daffas6688
    I have received the witness statement from PCMs solicitors Gladstones. They state what I expected them to say , in such as they think I see the signs. Their photographic evidence is from, on the night which is dark anyway, and daytime which it wasn't at the time. So unless I can read from inside my car (No and I couldn't get out) then you can't see wording. So I will argue with them on that. They have actually have got a photo from the front of my car. This must have been from a distance or when I looked left to see my granddaughter getting to car. ( fuzzy image next to passenger door) So feel set up with no offer to move. Then comes the cases I quoted in my defence which they are picking apart. I will detail what they say but will have to do a few messages so they aren't too long
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 27th Sep 17, 9:01 PM
    • 92 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    daffas6688
    They have given me page from Blue Handbook about private roads , as in do not park unless you have permission from owner. But if I wasn't parked as such or causing obstruction and actually unaware I was wrong then I will argue as such.
    This is what they say about signs. Even in the unlikely event the Defendant didn't see the signs I ( the solicitors witness) submit they ought to have done so. As Lord Justice Rich observed in the Court of appeal case Vine v London Borough of Waltham Forrest 2000. "Once it is established that sufficient and adequate warning notices were in place, as a car driver cannot be heard to say that he or she did not see the notice. We're that to be the law, it would be too easy for car drivers who trespass with their cars to evade the only method land owners have of stopping the unauthorised parking of cars in parking spaces or parking areas on their property"
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 27th Sep 17, 9:07 PM
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    daffas6688
    They also suggest my headlights would have been directly on the sign and line of sight as I pulled onto and parked on relevant land.
    I was looking in direction of school for my granddaughter and was in pain so was looking for other traffic and pedestrians more than signs.
    They say their signs are audited and approved by an accredited trade association within parking sector
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 27th Sep 17, 9:14 PM
    • 92 Posts
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    daffas6688
    No contract. On this they say the following.
    My company relies on the case of Parking Eye v Beavis 2015.In that case it was accepted as an established principle that a valid contract can be made by an offer in the form of the terms and conditions set out on the sign, and accepted by the drivers actions as prescribed therein.
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 27th Sep 17, 9:15 PM
    • 92 Posts
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    daffas6688
    I will post more tomorrow as there is quite a bit more and I have to up for work at 5am
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 28th Sep 17, 12:25 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    You are quoting the usual template rubbish. All of the above can be shot down at the hearing.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 28th Sep 17, 10:55 AM
    • 866 Posts
    • 976 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Indeed, its GS usual rubish WS

    Look through it for obvious signs hat the "witness" was no such thing - signs of templates being merged, referenes to places that dont exist, inconsitencies etc. Anything that casts doubt on teh WS is goden, as when their "witness" isnt present to be questioned, you can ask the court to stirke the WS as being unreliable.
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 2nd Oct 17, 10:52 PM
    • 92 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    daffas6688
    I have been through their witness statement which is full of quotes. My main worries are they are using court case themselves one Parking Eye v Beavis. Saying in that case it was accepted as an established principlethat a valid contract can be made by an offer in the form of the terms and conditions set out on the sign, and accepted by the drivers actions as prescribed therein. I know this is all to make me worried and at the end of the day they need to prove I knew there was a sign and what was on it. I could perhaps post their WS on here minus the sensitive information? They include their contract with the estate management giving them permission to enforce parking charge notices. They point out that VCS v H M Revenue and Parking eye v Beavis made it clear that a contracting party need not show they have a right to do what they have promised in the performance of a contract etc ( Confusing me with jargon )
    I would appreciate it if someone could give me advice in which sections to quote from in the three court cases I have used in my own witness statement namely , Vine v Waltham Forest, Jopson v Homeguard Services, and V C S v Ibbotson. The closer it gets to the court date the more sleep I am losing. Can them putting my name slightly wrong throw the case out lol. If only it was that simple.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Oct 17, 12:02 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    I could perhaps post their WS on here minus the sensitive information?
    Yes please, but we are not the slightest bit interested in this rubbish:
    they are using court case themselves one Parking Eye v Beavis. Saying in that case it was accepted as an established principle that a valid contract can be made...
    nor this:
    They point out that VCS v H M Revenue and Parking eye v Beavis made it clear that a contracting party need not show they have a right to do what they have promised in the performance of a contract etc
    Don't care about the above, thanks, that's template twaddle. Of course we know about the Beavis case, we followed it when it first started and it doesn't mean all parking charges are valid (how come we win 99% of cases here, then?!). It seems they are not being truthful and we don't want to hear about making a contract to sell Buckingham palace, ta very much. Drivel!

    I would appreciate it if someone could give me advice in which sections to quote from in the three court cases I have used in my own witness statement namely , Vine v Waltham Forest, Jopson v Homeguard Services, and V C S v Ibbotson.
    They are a cinch to read - you've got the transcripts - surely you can see the relevant parts? They aren't even written in legalese, for the most part.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 03-10-2017 at 12:05 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 3rd Oct 17, 10:14 PM
    • 92 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    daffas6688
    Their WS doesn't really have that much in apart from the blurb you don't want to see, photos, their original contact with me and me with them. I have tried to add the stuff that is left with without sensitive information but for some reason I cannot copy and paste it as my pc not letting me do so. I will try to remedy and send in the next reply. I have read cases I have used in my statment and found relevant pieces . Thank you
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 3rd Oct 17, 11:01 PM
    • 92 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    daffas6688
    My scans too big to post for some reason even though made smallest. I am going to have to write down word by word if I can't remedy
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 3rd Oct 17, 11:18 PM
    • 92 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    daffas6688
    I am the Employee of the Claimant Company (nmy Company) and I am duly authorised to make this statement onits behalf. The facts and matters set out in this statement are to be true.Where i refer to information supplied by others, the source of the information is identified; facts and matters derived from other sources are true to best of my knowledge and belief.
    Exhibited to this witness statement at 'GSL1' are following which my Company wishes to rely on;
    The agreement authorising my company to manage parking on the relevant land.
    The sign(i.e. the Contract)
    The Site Plan
    Notices
    Photographs of the incident
    The defendant is liable for a parking charge relating to the parking of a vehicle on the Relevant land in a manner so as to incur the same pursuant to the Contract
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 3rd Oct 17, 11:23 PM
    • 92 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    daffas6688
    My company rejects any arguement that the Defendant did not see the sign.It is evident from the site plan that there are sufficient signs.
    What is more, without concession, even in the unlikely event the Defendant didn't see the signs I submit they ought to have done so.As Lord Justice Roch observed in the court of appeal case of Vine v London borough of Waltham Forest
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 3rd Oct 17, 11:34 PM
    • 92 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    daffas6688
    Further , the photographs evidence the defendants vehicle parked after one of the company's signs and therefore, I respectfully submit that the defendant's headlights would have been directly on the sign and in the Defendants line of sight and parked upon the Relevent land and therefore I do not believe that lighting is an issue.
    The signs and the site plan are audited and approved by an accredited trade assosiation within the parking sector
    My company relies on the case of Parking Eye v Beavis . In that case it was accepted as an established principle that a valid contract can be made by an offer in the form of the terms and condtions set out on the sign, and accepted by the drivers actions a prescribed therein
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 3rd Oct 17, 11:38 PM
    • 92 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    daffas6688
    The signs on the land are clear and unambiguous. By parking in the manner in which they did, the charge was properly incurred.
    The defendant appealed the parking charge and the appeal was rejected. The blue badge handbook provides guidance when parking on private roads,like in this instance, it advises disabled badge holders to not park unless permission has been given which it was not.
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