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  • FIRST POST
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 22nd Dec 16, 10:14 PM
    • 74Posts
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    daffas6688
    pcm parking ticket but disabled
    • #1
    • 22nd Dec 16, 10:14 PM
    pcm parking ticket but disabled 22nd Dec 16 at 10:14 PM
    I have recieved a parking ticket on a private housing estate. The company is Parking Control Management of Slough. It isn't a police or official council one.
    I have a bad back and have difficulty in walking, some days worse than others. This particular day I went to collect my grand daughter from after school club, and was in particular pain, so didn't park 400 yards away in supermarket as I usually do. The school is on a private housing estate , with no provision near school for disabled parking. I sat in my car , on a bit of pavement, not even double yellow lines. I was in the vehicle with the badge displayed. I was too busy looking in school door to notice someone taking a photo of my car!I was there for 2 to 3 minutes.I know I have to appeal but want to know about this clause on their notice quoting Protections of Freedoms Act Schedule 4. I feel this is unfair to people with blue badges and my car was causing no trouble at all. What should I say in the appeal which I know will get thrown out. I feel like saying take me to court to save the hassle as believe they don't like doing that as it costs them too much. Also I feel I would win anyway. Any advice please.Thanks Dee
Page 5
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Aug 17, 9:48 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Right, so that letter will also state the date by which you MUST file your WS and evidence.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 21st Aug 17, 2:02 PM
    • 504 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    Otherwise known as "documents"

    Of course, having read the Newbies thread you will know this!

    Usually it is 14 days before, but some courts go for a LOT earlier than this. Besides which, your WS should basically be done - so show us a draft.
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 31st Aug 17, 11:39 AM
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    daffas6688
    Is my witness statement the same as my defence what I submitted? Do I add extra to it in form of photos I've taken? I see that I have send the claimant my witness statement too? Or do I write something different. The claimant paid court fee so know they are intending to go to court. Sorry to be confused but read so many threads I am really lost. Sometimes think I should have paid at beginning . Cannot see on court letter what date witness statement has to be in only date which claimant had to pay fee by. But I will send asap.
    • DollyDee
    • By DollyDee 1st Sep 17, 12:20 PM
    • 740 Posts
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    DollyDee
    Quoted from Bargepole's Court Claim Procedure (Post #2 Newbies Thread)

    5. The case file will then be transferred to your local County Court, and you will eventually receive a Notice of Allocation, giving you a date and time for the hearing. It will also specify a deadline for you to submit a Witness Statement, and any other documents you intend to rely on, usually 14 days before the hearing but sometimes earlier than that. Your Witness Statement can expand upon the points made in your original Defence, and must start with the following "I, Joe Bloggs, of 23 Acacia Avenue, Anytown, AN1 2BC, am the Defendant in this matter, and will say as follows". You should attach to your Witness Statement any evidence to support your assertions, eg photos of signage, etc. Optionally, you may also want to include a Skeleton Argument to flesh out the legal points, or you could include those as part of your Witness Statement.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Sep 17, 7:14 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Is my witness statement the same as my defence what I submitted?
    Originally posted by daffas6688
    No.

    All your questions are already answered in post #2 of the NEWBIES thread, so please re-read it, and show us your draft Witness Statement and tell us what evidence you will be filing as well.

    The sticky thread tells you that every stage now must be copied to the Claimant as well.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 1st Sep 17, 11:55 PM
    • 74 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    daffas6688
    court defence
    I have removed sensitive information from my original defence and hope I can successfully drop box it here.
    I have taken photos of signage which isn't actaually near where I was waiting. On entrance to this estate/ road it is very difficult to see a signs saying private Rd. First of all due to the acute turn you have do take to get onto it and also not very well lit. There are also trees obscuring view too. I will take photos of this tomorrow and print to send off. I also have photos of the normal school run where blue badge cars are parked all over the place and no action being taken. I am going to point out that this was a rare occasion that I was in too much pain to walk too far and feel this was an unfair ticket.( This company is inconsistant as I have spoken to several people that have thrown two or more of their tickets in the bin with no action being taken)
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 2nd Sep 17, 12:05 AM
    • 74 Posts
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    daffas6688
    hope this has worked
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/d05rahjpn7n7nwe/defence%20%282%29.odt?dl=0
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 2nd Sep 17, 12:13 AM
    • 74 Posts
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    daffas6688
    Can my defence be altered to make a witness statement? I will study those in newbies 2 and try and do something tomorrow. Still can't see the date I have to submit my witness statement but I am heading towards sending before the date the claimant had until to pay the court fee. ( which is the 8th September) Do I have to send the photos too? Having to send this statement to the claimants solicitors too I am wondering if I have to get copies of photos too?
    Last edited by daffas6688; 02-09-2017 at 12:17 AM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Sep 17, 12:22 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    OK, I remember your defence and it's good.

    So the stage you are at now is to put together your evidence and exhibits - the things and cases mentioned in your defence. Such as a copy of your Blue Badge, any photos you took (if any), a copy of the Blue Badge handbook that says disabled drivers can park even on double yellows (this was a private road but it wasn't evident, so you took it to be public highway and put PCM to strict proof that it isn't).

    A copy of Vine v Waltham Forest and the Jopson case, that you mentioned in your defence, etc.

    Then you write a witness statement of what happened (a shorter version of some bits from your defence, in effect: ''I did this, then I did that'' including any appeal made after the event and how this harassment has made you feel distressed and intimidated for parking in good faith on a public road, as far as you could reasonably see.

    Can my defence be altered to make a witness statement?
    Yes, shortened to state just what happened on the day and afterwards (minus the legal arguments, but plus the photos & Blue Badge and evidence).

    The Claimant's solicitors version can be emailed to them, no cost to you.

    The Court version should be all nicely printed out in a file or document wallet, with numbered evidence. And a FULL duplicate of everything (plus proof of having sent the email evidence and WS to the solicitors, and when!) as a bundle for yourself, to take to the hearing.

    The date should be on the back of the letter, where it says about exchanging the evidence both parties intend to rely upon, it might say ''not later than...'' (could be 14 days before the hearing date, typically)?
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 02-09-2017 at 12:27 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 2nd Sep 17, 1:21 AM
    • 504 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    If you're not sure, post your hearing letter here. Redact usual details.
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 6th Sep 17, 10:24 PM
    • 74 Posts
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    daffas6688
    Evening I have written evidence/witness statement and will try and dropbox it for people to look at. I am not sure how to end this statement but planned to put something along the lines of " My statement is true and my account of events . In my statement I have mentioned I had written to the Estate managers about my penalty charge and their lack of disabled bays and their response of not being able to overturn ticket and to appeal to the parking company. Do I includea copy of this or omit it. They just seemed to believe I was obviously parked wrong so don't want to include if it may inhibit my case. I will send the photographic eveidence to the parking companies solicitors by email attatchment but do I just print on A4 paper for court or get proper photos done? Thank you in advance
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 6th Sep 17, 10:27 PM
    • 74 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    daffas6688
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/07mjbrggtei8yyn/Scan_20170906.pspimage?dl=0


    Please can you advise if you can read as in dropbox it says it can't but it gave me an option of opening in another programme on the above link. Thank you
    Last edited by daffas6688; 06-09-2017 at 10:47 PM. Reason: can't read attachment
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 6th Sep 17, 10:59 PM
    • 74 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    daffas6688
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/dvobsj9hqy0a3pk/witness%20statment.odt?dl=0
    hope this works
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Sep 17, 1:56 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    Bumping for others to see tomorrow and comment on the WS.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 8th Sep 17, 1:15 PM
    • 74 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    daffas6688
    Hi has anyone had a look at my witness statement / evidence? I am hoping to get in post to court a s a p. I have to email to claimants solicitors too. Does that include photos? Also if they can see mine before do I not get to see theirs? I can drop box the letter from estate manager if I should include so you can read ans see if that will help or hinder me.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Sep 17, 1:53 PM
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    • 63,451 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I can drop box the letter from estate manager if I should include so you can read ans see if that will help or hinder me.
    Don't send the claimant's solicitor a Dropbox link - that would not be considered good service of evidence. You can send them PDFs and if that means more than one email, then do that.
    Also if they can see mine before do I not get to see theirs?
    Yes they do that deliberately, but we are seeing Gladstones discontinue more cases now, than before (throw in the towel) which leaves people open to apply to the Court for their own wasted costs, which is fun!

    You would get more views on a WS if you copied & pasted it here, using Notepad not Word, as per the thread by MSE Andrea this week!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 08-09-2017 at 3:45 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 8th Sep 17, 2:40 PM
    • 74 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    daffas6688
    No wasn't sending drop box to solicitor I meant on here, the letter from estate manager . I did witness statement on here through drop box as it is , so far, the only way I have managed to get it on here. I will ask my granddaughter she may know she only 11 , but they seem to know lots these days. Failing that I would have to write word for word on here. Thanks for your help
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 8th Sep 17, 6:18 PM
    • 74 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    daffas6688
    DEFENCE/WITNESS STATEMENT

    Case No: xxxxxxxx
    PARKING CONTROL MANAGEMENT (UK) LIMITED -v- xxxxxxxx

    06/09/2017

    I xxxxxxx of xxxx am the defendant in this matter and will say as follows.

    1) Although in the vicinity of Scholars Way Academy Central on the 07/12/2017 I wasn't actually parked.I didn't leave the vehicle as I was merely waiting for my young granddaughter to leave after school cliub, for a short time.

    2) As I entered the Estate i failed to notice the parking restriction signs as it was dark and poorly lit. also the sharp angle you drive in at, prevents you from seeing outside signs as do the trees. The actual place I was waiting at ( slipway adjacent to school) was way off to the left from the residents poorly signed area. I had the impression this was a public road as it had a public school, and placed my Blue Badge in the windscreen thinking I was legal. At no time was I causing an obstruction, in a residents bay or on any lines.( zig zag or yellow )

    3) At no time did i see the parking warden, who must have hidden in the shadows . The evidence photo was taken from behind and at no time did they come round the front of the vehicle. nor was I given the opportunity to be moved on. It is clear they were out to make money for the company.

    4) having received a penalty notice I extensively researched who was in charge of the Estate and found an Emma Walker was. I contacted her about lack of disabled spaces on the land and my penalty notice, but she wasn't interested. She told me she couldn't overturn it and to appeal to PCM.

    5) My appeal was refused and PCM then became bullies. They hassled me and overinflated the charges. I was sent confusingly worded solicitors letters.This made me feel intimidated lost sleep over something I believed I had done no wrong. A council penalty you can appeal further and get an independent mediator, but with this company it goes straight to solicitors then court in the wrong or not.

    6)It is submitted that ( apart fromproperly incurred court fees) any added solicitors fees are simply numbers made up out of thin air, and are an attempt at double recovery by the claimant, which would not be recoverable in any event.

    7) As PCM are acting as an agent on the estate, the claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name, which should be in the name of the landlord.

    8) I am also including photographs and photocopies towards my evidence. a copy of my Blue Badge. A copy of the yellow line page of the Blue Badge booklet. Photos of where I was situated. Photos of approach, entrance, signage etc that I missed or too far away to notice. The signs are so high it is impossible to read at night even if you do notice them. On there being a school just inside the gate, people will be looking out for children not signs high up on posts. Parts of the estate poorly lit if at all in places. Plus photos of cars parked all over area at school times.( which gives the impression it is the norm and ok to park in the area.

    9) I am also forwarding transcripts from the 3 court caes I mentioned in my earlier evidence ( Vehicle Control Services v Ibbotson,Vinev London Borough Of Waltham Forest,and Jopson v Homeguard Services Ltd

    My statement is my account of events and true.
    • daffas6688
    • By daffas6688 8th Sep 17, 6:24 PM
    • 74 Posts
    • 27 Thanks
    daffas6688
    I have changed some sentences from the original drop box document above. ( the name of estate manager as mis thought it was L&Q ) and some other wordings. This was the only way I could post. Please could anyone advise me if this is ok as my witness statement and what I may have omitted. The last sentence I will change to an appropriate one as couldn't think of anything at the time. I do hopre to get this off to the court tomorrow so hope as many people see as possible. Also do I include the letter from the estate manager saying they can't help. Does it help or hinder me? One aspect would be they are not interested in chasing up people themselves?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Sep 17, 12:33 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    Not ''I failed'':

    2) As I entered the Estate i failed to notice the parking restriction signs
    Maybe:

    2) As I entered the Estate there was no way that I could have noticed the parking restriction signs
    and it's not a 'penalty notice':

    4) having received a penalty parking charge notice I extensively researched who was in charge of the Estate and found this was an Emma Walker was. I contacted her about lack of disabled spaces on the land and to ask her to cancel the parking charge my penalty notice, but she wasn't was not interested.
    And where you refer to your evidence photos, your Blue Badge and case transcripts, give each piece of evidence a number and call it by that number, and put the whole lot in a file or document wallet with a cover sheet of contents, referring to the Witness Statement and the evidence by number.

    The pages will also need numbering at the bottom, once all organised.

    A copy of everything must be emailed to the other side's solicitor.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 09-09-2017 at 12:39 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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