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  • FIRST POST
    • mobile73
    • By mobile73 21st Dec 16, 6:30 PM
    • 28Posts
    • 4Thanks
    mobile73
    Can't fit gas Smart Meter due to IJ on pipe
    • #1
    • 21st Dec 16, 6:30 PM
    Can't fit gas Smart Meter due to IJ on pipe 21st Dec 16 at 6:30 PM
    Just had SSE round to fit my Smart Meter, however the installer took one look at my gas mater and said they are not allowed to fit it as it has an Insulation Joint (IJ) on it. He suggested only option was National Grid would need to be contacted to remove this but was not sure if they would do it. HAs anyone ever experienced this and know whether it is fixable or can I not have a gas Smart Meter in this scenario? He still fitted the electricity one.
Page 1
    • MeterMan
    • By MeterMan 21st Dec 16, 9:30 PM
    • 222 Posts
    • 110 Thanks
    MeterMan
    • #2
    • 21st Dec 16, 9:30 PM
    • #2
    • 21st Dec 16, 9:30 PM
    I can't say i know what an insulation joint is. If you could provide a picture of the gas meter (remove serial numbers from the image if you wish). Post a pic of the electric position too, try to include as much surrounding area as possible.

    I cant think of anything on the national grid side that would stop a meter being installed, other than the ECV(gas tap) not working correctly, but he would have completed the electric before getting to know that.

    TL-DR, sounds like a fast one, post a pic for more detailed response
    • misterbarlow
    • By misterbarlow 21st Dec 16, 9:42 PM
    • 362 Posts
    • 227 Thanks
    misterbarlow
    • #3
    • 21st Dec 16, 9:42 PM
    • #3
    • 21st Dec 16, 9:42 PM
    Not a gas fitter, sure someone who is can give a more detailed answer soon, but i think its a joint put in the incoming pipe with an electrically insulating section in it, which breaks the overall conductivity of the pipework where the incoming gas main is metal not plastic, to prevent an electrical fault in the property from returning down the metal gas main..??
    • MeterMan
    • By MeterMan 22nd Dec 16, 9:45 AM
    • 222 Posts
    • 110 Thanks
    MeterMan
    • #4
    • 22nd Dec 16, 9:45 AM
    • #4
    • 22nd Dec 16, 9:45 AM
    Not a gas fitter, sure someone who is can give a more detailed answer soon, but i think its a joint put in the incoming pipe with an electrically insulating section in it, which breaks the overall conductivity of the pipework where the incoming gas main is metal not plastic, to prevent an electrical fault in the property from returning down the metal gas main..??
    Originally posted by misterbarlow
    One of the first rules in gas is when undertaking work on the gas installation is, if you cause a break in the system, IE removing a meter, breaking into pipework then you will use Temporary Continuity Bonds to bridge the gap to ensure electric continuity remains.

    If your answer is the reason to the OPs issue, then its a proper joke as no body uses them anyway.
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 22nd Dec 16, 9:57 AM
    • 3,005 Posts
    • 1,576 Thanks
    lstar337
    • #5
    • 22nd Dec 16, 9:57 AM
    • #5
    • 22nd Dec 16, 9:57 AM
    I can't say i know what an insulation joint is.
    Originally posted by MeterMan
    It's like a sky hook.
    • mobile73
    • By mobile73 23rd Dec 16, 9:28 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    mobile73
    • #6
    • 23rd Dec 16, 9:28 AM
    • #6
    • 23rd Dec 16, 9:28 AM
    This is a picture of the offending pipe. It is the big ring above the red tape. He took one look at it and said they are not allowed to touch it.

    http://imgur.com/6Ny9ihk
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 23rd Dec 16, 1:25 PM
    • 2,779 Posts
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    matelodave
    • #7
    • 23rd Dec 16, 1:25 PM
    • #7
    • 23rd Dec 16, 1:25 PM
    It's not really associated with the meter is it?

    There's an isolating valve and flexi-pipe between it and the meter. He wouldn't have to touch it at all.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    • Scotlands_Lite
    • By Scotlands_Lite 23rd Dec 16, 3:28 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Scotlands_Lite
    • #8
    • 23rd Dec 16, 3:28 PM
    • #8
    • 23rd Dec 16, 3:28 PM
    Something the installer has interpreted from this (read section GB003)? ...


    www.energy-uk.org.uk/files/docs/GuidanceforElectricityandGasMeterInstallationCusto merFacingIssues.pdf


    ...it would seem possibly, to be a potential issue with meter installation in general rather than specific to smart meters.
    Last edited by Scotlands_Lite; 23-12-2016 at 3:33 PM.
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 23rd Dec 16, 5:34 PM
    • 1,320 Posts
    • 821 Thanks
    Robin9
    • #9
    • 23rd Dec 16, 5:34 PM
    • #9
    • 23rd Dec 16, 5:34 PM
    This is a bonding issue (asp per the helpful GB003 found by Scotlands_Life) - the meter installer is required to check if there was a clamp and wiring on the meter. I think the installer is incorrect in describing the section of plastic pipe as an IJ - , in most cases the service pipe is entirely plastic, including the main itself

    I had a similar issue - the gas meter was in a separate cupboard from the electric / water installation and there was no bonding.

    However the installer continued with the installation and gave me a defect notice. Now rectified.
    • MeterMan
    • By MeterMan 23rd Dec 16, 5:41 PM
    • 222 Posts
    • 110 Thanks
    MeterMan
    The only issue I can see, is that excessive force may be excerted on the plastic pipe when loosening/tightening the ECV union.

    The engineer should have contacted the national grid for a 'check for safety'. If he did this, then they would have attended within 4 hours of first contact. If this didnt happen, then contact National Grid yourself and request a check for safety.

    The guidance posted states

    :No insulation joint fitted Note: Currently subject to industry and stakeholder discussion

    Which is massively open to interpretation on whether or not a job can go ahead. Company standards may differ from this document and I haven't read SMICOP (Smart Metering Codes of Practice) and that guide is 18 months old so things may have changed by now.

    Personally, I dont see an issue with the job, I would fit the meter and contact national grid for them to deem its level of safeness.
    • C_Mababejive
    • By C_Mababejive 26th Dec 16, 8:18 PM
    • 10,095 Posts
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    C_Mababejive
    OK i will tell you the truth of the matter.

    The insulation joint is sometimes fitted on metallic /steel incoming srvice pipes. It is there to protect the outside gas network from stray electrical currents from within the home being conducted outside via the gas pipework.

    Now then, there is absolutely nothing to stop the smart meter worker from doing the meter work.

    I strongly suspect that the reason why he stalled you the OP as that he cant be bothered with it.

    The outlet fittings on the ECV are somewhat different to standard and so he would have to use additional skills and fittings to adapt to suit his new meter. That is the bit he didnt want to do.

    In simple terms he either didnt have the skills/fittings or simply couldnt be ars&&d with it.

    As for continuity bonds, a temporary continuity bond could be used in this instance simply by attaching after the insulation joint.

    I would adivse that anyone undertaking such work DOES use a temporary bond as there are plenty of cases of people receiving electric shocks/burns by not doing so..

    The OP needs to go back to his/her supplier and complain.
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
    • C_Mababejive
    • By C_Mababejive 26th Dec 16, 8:21 PM
    • 10,095 Posts
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    C_Mababejive
    It's not really associated with the meter is it?

    There's an isolating valve and flexi-pipe between it and the meter. He wouldn't have to touch it at all.
    Originally posted by matelodave
    Unfortunately he would. He is obliged to also fit a new inlet and regulator. (in this post the masculine shall also denote the feminine)
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
    • mobile73
    • By mobile73 28th Dec 16, 7:54 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    mobile73
    Thanks for the advice. Going to call National Grid and ask for their advice. There must be a solution as government wants all houses to have smart meters.
    • C_Mababejive
    • By C_Mababejive 28th Dec 16, 9:28 PM
    • 10,095 Posts
    • 9,219 Thanks
    C_Mababejive
    Thanks for the advice. Going to call National Grid and ask for their advice. There must be a solution as government wants all houses to have smart meters.
    Originally posted by mobile73

    I wouldnt bother. Its nothing to do with them. They dont own the meter.
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
    • mobile73
    • By mobile73 28th Dec 16, 10:17 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    mobile73
    If not National Grid then who can help? Do I go back to SSE and ask for a second opinion?
    • C_Mababejive
    • By C_Mababejive 29th Dec 16, 7:47 AM
    • 10,095 Posts
    • 9,219 Thanks
    C_Mababejive
    If not National Grid then who can help? Do I go back to SSE and ask for a second opinion?
    Originally posted by mobile73
    You go back to SSE and say that whoever came to fit the meter didnt do it when they could have done it had they had the right skills and suitable fittings which they should have had. Unfortunately there is a growing pool of smart meter installers who dont have the skills to do jobs which require more than just undoing a few nuts. They then bump the job with some lame excuse or other and move on. They want only to do the nice easy jobs as it makes their day easier and if they get a bonus, well its better to do lots of easy jobs and dump the tricky ones. I suggest you write a letter and remember to put the word "complaint" at the top otherwise,,well it isnt a complaint.

    Im guessing you waited in, inconvenineced yourself in the hope of having this done?
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
    • Jay patel
    • By Jay patel 20th Apr 17, 4:11 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Jay patel
    I'd love to know if there was any reply from SSE as I've just had my electric smart meter installed and they didn't install my gas smart meter for the same reason. The fitters did proceed to tell me there were companies out there that would do the job but that they had been instructed by SSE not to. Tried phoning British Gas enquiring about a supplier switch and could they do it and was again told that it was not possible because of a difference in size and comparability with the smart meters.
    • mobile73
    • By mobile73 20th Apr 17, 4:14 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    mobile73
    Have to admit I have not had a chance to follow this up yet but still intend to. Nobody from SSE bothered to contact me but ironically a month or so ago, someone from SSE came round to check if I was happy with my Smart Meter! He didn't expect my response and told me to complain to SSE and they should fix it. Will believe it when I see it.
    • MeterMan
    • By MeterMan 20th Apr 17, 11:09 PM
    • 222 Posts
    • 110 Thanks
    MeterMan
    I'd love to know if there was any reply from SSE as I've just had my electric smart meter installed and they didn't install my gas smart meter for the same reason. The fitters did proceed to tell me there were companies out there that would do the job but that they had been instructed by SSE not to. Tried phoning British Gas enquiring about a supplier switch and could they do it and was again told that it was not possible because of a difference in size and comparability with the smart meters.
    Originally posted by Jay patel
    This doesn't make sense at all, not what you said, but the answer you where given. If we didn't change meters because of a size difference then we'd never change a meter again. Sounds like a cop out to be honest.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 21st Apr 17, 10:10 AM
    • 3,547 Posts
    • 1,898 Thanks
    Hengus
    Thanks for the advice. Going to call National Grid and ask for their advice. There must be a solution as government wants all houses to have smart meters.
    Originally posted by mobile73
    Yes, but the Government has already accepted that c.50K properties will not get smart metering. I sense that this figure will grow.
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