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  • FIRST POST
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 19th Dec 16, 10:01 PM
    • 11,898Posts
    • 10,282Thanks
    jimjames
    LED light bulbs
    • #1
    • 19th Dec 16, 10:01 PM
    LED light bulbs 19th Dec 16 at 10:01 PM
    I've had low energy bulbs for a few years now having bought when CFL bulbs started to be available at a reasonable price. I saw some LED bulbs at screwfix over the weekend at an amazing price so decided to take the plunge and buy some.

    Wow! I've been really impressed with the brightness and how quickly they come on compared to CFL ones and the power consumption too. In the hallway it was a 20W CFL replacing a 100W standard. That's now a 5.8W LED which seems very similar brightness despite only being a 40W equivalent rating. Best of all the LED bulb was only £1.79, really great moneysaving as it's now well within 12 months payback for heavily used lights.
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
Page 7
    • theboylard
    • By theboylard 7th Mar 17, 5:07 PM
    • 1,097 Posts
    • 2,698 Thanks
    theboylard
    Get your feet off the sofa!

    That's the Oval Office!
    4kWp, SSE, 16 x 250w EcoFuture BoB with retro-fitted SolarEdge P300 optimisers & SE3500 Inverter, in occasionally sunny Corby, Northants.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 7th Mar 17, 5:51 PM
    • 5,558 Posts
    • 9,556 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Get your feet off the sofa!

    That's the Oval Office!
    Originally posted by theboylard
    Did you see the Daily Show with Trevor Noah? Very funny piece. He pointed out that she obviously never had or met a black grandma. If he'd put his shoes on the sofa, he wouldn't have been able to sit down for a week.

    No youtube available sadly, but this sets the scene:

    https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/837010338981740545
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (2.4 ESE & 1.18 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • almillar
    • By almillar 8th Mar 17, 1:03 PM
    • 6,927 Posts
    • 2,755 Thanks
    almillar
    Before you chipped in others had said they'd tried them and found them to be fine.

    Also, according to your lumens per watt requirement, the HB lamp I bought later was fine.
    Again, specifications had not been provided at the time I was making assumptions about them.

    Yes you claimed they were no good, without any knowledge
    And I repeat, specifically, I had been in a shop called Home Bargains, looking at LEDs, and they weren't any good! Is that not knowledge? How can I do any better, if people don't specify what they have?

    So if we don't say we've selected each individual lamp in relation to where we want to use it, you simply (and happily) assume we don't know what we are doing.
    'I replaced a 45W spotlight with a 500 lumens LED from Screwfix, here's a link www.xyz' - is that so difficult?

    You happily stated they were no good before I could supply you with any information. And to be honest, your attitude stinks with this approach that I have to answer your questions, just to get you to stop posting lies about me.
    If this is the issue, then I genuinely (I mean it) apologise. I've replied to so many LED threads, and other threads, where people ask questions without providing proper information. 'My Sony smart TV doesn't work' for example - this is unlikely to be answerable without a model number. I've answered threads in the past asking 'which LED' or 'is this LED any good to replace xyz' and you need to know what's being replaced to be able to answer correctly. I 'bet' straight away that you'd bought poor LEDs, and I should have given you a chance to provide the specs first.

    So you think it's ok to have a go at me, wrongly, whilst replying to somebody else?
    Yes. I think it's OK to thank someone for mentioning info that others were refusing to provide. That's hardly having a go at you. I'm not whispering in his ear, I'm typing it on a public forum for all, including you, to read. And you called me a troll, so careful with the 'getting personal' accusations.

    I note that you still haven't advised on what your acceptable lamps would have been
    I did, I said the screwfix one was fine just to stop you asking, but you're too busy typing to read. But one LED is not the answer to all problems, remember.

    I'm certain now that you never had any suggestions or helpful advice in mind from the start
    Feel free to look through my post history where I have helped plenty of people with plenty of different problems. I don't troll. I certainly didn't just join this thread to have a pop, and resultant argument, with you. Just, I suppose, to point out to ALL readers, some advice that plenty of us take as obvious. Trust me, it's not.
    • Exiled Tyke
    • By Exiled Tyke 8th Mar 17, 6:47 PM
    • 212 Posts
    • 773 Thanks
    Exiled Tyke
    Thanks for the discussion on this Martyn. I'm now planning on taking a trip to Screwfix tomorrow to sort out my GU10s. Long story but the LEDS's I have are ever so slightly too thick around the rim for the wire holders. It looks like Screwfix have a suitable replacement which I wouldn't have thought about previously.
    Install 28th Nov 15, 3.3kW, (11x300LG), SolarEdge, SW. W Yorks.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 9th Mar 17, 7:20 AM
    • 5,558 Posts
    • 9,556 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Thanks for the discussion on this Martyn. I'm now planning on taking a trip to Screwfix tomorrow to sort out my GU10s. Long story but the LEDS's I have are ever so slightly too thick around the rim for the wire holders. It looks like Screwfix have a suitable replacement which I wouldn't have thought about previously.
    Originally posted by Exiled Tyke
    We've found that our GU10 fittings in the kitchen won't fit all lamps (or is it the other way around), so some GU10's are fractionally longer and the fitting won't screw back.

    The B&Q ones fitted. But oddly, they are cool white, but when installed look more like warm white. But Wifey prefers them, so a bit of tactical swoping and we have a bright walkway/counters, with a 'warm atmospheric sink area.

    Then found out a newbie on the Navitron forum lived nearby, so he popped round for a cuppa, and left with a free GU10 to test, as his wife prefers warm white to cool white, and these are something in-between .... we think.

    Quick tip - always worth a look at Screwfix and Toolstation clearance (for anything, not just lamps), just pop clearance in the search. Tends to be a ton of stuff, but of course pure luck.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (2.4 ESE & 1.18 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • almillar
    • By almillar 9th Mar 17, 2:00 PM
    • 6,927 Posts
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    almillar
    So you just assumed they were no good, but then you say you saw them in a shop, and they were no good.
    Not again. I'm not assuming what I saw in Home Bargains. I saw those with my own eyes, they're junk. My assumption was about what you had bought, for which I have already apologised.
    Strange answer to a question asking you why you automatically assume we don't know what we are doing. Did you mix up your answers, or are you simply avoiding an answer?
    This is a forum. People come on and ask questions. People give answers and share experience. That includes you, and me. Some people DO NOT know what they are doing. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't ask a lot of questions, but I do plenty of reading instead. Other people asking questions and having them answered correctly benefits me and other readers of the forum. Give them good information.

    1. I don't have to supply you with information to stop you bad mouthing me, you shouldn't have started in the first place
    Accepted, and apologised for - I jumped too fast with my assumption.

    2. I had supplied the information.
    No, you supplied it later - it took a long time to establish you'd bought an 806 lumens lamp from Screwfix, whilst all the time I was badmouthing Home Bargains lamps.

    3. Your claim was wrong, and you knew it was wrong before you posted the response
    It was a bet, and as it turned out, it was wrong. Talk to a bookmaker about the nature of bets.

    4. Based on the lack of any information you have supplied, and the false claims made against myself, and the fact you made the same claims against Dave Fowler and Nige Wick 2 days ago, I'd say you are trolling this thread.
    Untrue. And I'll take my lighting advice from people who can tell me how bright a light is, thanks.

    You firstly claimed that the Screwfix (and others) wouldn't be good enough
    MAY NOT - my point is NO ONE can tell because information hadn't been provided.

    Or do you only know what a 'bad lamp' is, without being able to provide a 'good lamp' link. Quite ironic that your now 'promoting' the very lamps for which I was criticised.
    I've seen and used bad ones - too white, and failing, either stopping completely, or flickering. eBay junk.
    But, if it will keep you happy, IKEA have some good LEDs these days, having started out with pretty substandard ones. They don't do B27 but do adaptors, if it's for a ceiling light. Here's one that will just about replace an 80/100W bulb - although angles/spread may be a problem:
    http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/lighting/light-bulbs-accessories/ryet-led-bulb-e27-1000-lumen-globe-opal-white-art-60334171/

    I'm not stuck on one single product that replaces everything well. LEDs are changing fast. I never claimed I'd recommend anything, but yes, putting people off bad (potentially) products is also helpful, in my opinion.
    Quite ironic that your now 'promoting' the very lamps for which I was criticised.
    Isn't irony amazing? I criticised you not providing the information. It turns out the lamps were good.
    • mickyduck
    • By mickyduck 9th Mar 17, 2:15 PM
    • 322 Posts
    • 346 Thanks
    mickyduck
    I bought 10 Screwfix ones about a month ago to replace the ceiling lights in my Kitchen (I needed 6).. absolutely delighted with them. They are bright and do the job. Funny when I bought them I said they would probably outlast me! After reading this thread maybe not
    3.995kWP SSW facing. Commissioned 7 July 2011. 24 degree pitch + Solar Immersion installed May 2013
    • Exiled Tyke
    • By Exiled Tyke 9th Mar 17, 4:32 PM
    • 212 Posts
    • 773 Thanks
    Exiled Tyke
    We've found that our GU10 fittings in the kitchen won't fit all lamps (or is it the other way around), so some GU10's are fractionally longer and the fitting won't screw back.

    The B&Q ones fitted. But oddly, they are cool white, but when installed look more like warm white. But Wifey prefers them, so a bit of tactical swoping and we have a bright walkway/counters, with a 'warm atmospheric sink area.

    Then found out a newbie on the Navitron forum lived nearby, so he popped round for a cuppa, and left with a free GU10 to test, as his wife prefers warm white to cool white, and these are something in-between .... we think.

    Quick tip - always worth a look at Screwfix and Toolstation clearance (for anything, not just lamps), just pop clearance in the search. Tends to be a ton of stuff, but of course pure luck.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981

    Brilliant. You've saved me. I've got exactly the same issue with my kitchen lights. A trip to B&Q has solved it. Cool Whites at 4.7w 345 lumens (4000k) and they fit perfectly and around £3 each. So thanks very much again.
    Install 28th Nov 15, 3.3kW, (11x300LG), SolarEdge, SW. W Yorks.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 9th Mar 17, 5:48 PM
    • 5,558 Posts
    • 9,556 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Brilliant. You've saved me. I've got exactly the same issue with my kitchen lights. A trip to B&Q has solved it. Cool Whites at 4.7w 345 lumens (4000k) and they fit perfectly and around £3 each. So thanks very much again.
    Originally posted by Exiled Tyke
    Hiya. Do you think they are cool white, or slightly 'warmer'? We like ours but definitely a shade warmer .... so to speak.

    Just wondering if it was a packaging, or batch issue, or if B&Q's suppliers have a different opinion on what is cool.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (2.4 ESE & 1.18 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 9th Mar 17, 7:14 PM
    • 3,588 Posts
    • 4,421 Thanks
    zeupater
    .... I've seen and used bad ones - too white, and failing, either stopping completely, or flickering. eBay junk.
    But, if it will keep you happy, IKEA have some good LEDs these days, having started out with pretty substandard ones. They don't do B27 but do adaptors, if it's for a ceiling light....
    Originally posted by almillar
    ... doubt you'd find anyone with B27 LED bulbs in stock locally, probably find that the adaptors you mention are pretty rare too ...

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Exiled Tyke
    • By Exiled Tyke 9th Mar 17, 8:04 PM
    • 212 Posts
    • 773 Thanks
    Exiled Tyke
    Hiya. Do you think they are cool white, or slightly 'warmer'? We like ours but definitely a shade warmer .... so to speak.

    Just wondering if it was a packaging, or batch issue, or if B&Q's suppliers have a different opinion on what is cool.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Not too sure. Definitely a lot bluer than the warm ones I was replacing (which I couldn't get to fit properly). But I don't have any other cools to compare them to. I think they are quite cold on the whole!
    Install 28th Nov 15, 3.3kW, (11x300LG), SolarEdge, SW. W Yorks.
    • almillar
    • By almillar 10th Mar 17, 12:54 PM
    • 6,927 Posts
    • 2,755 Thanks
    almillar
    But ....... you've now commented a couple on times on seeing them, but I noted you didn't say you bought one. So the point you missed in my response, was that you have simply assumed they are no good, without trying one, and you can't even blame the lumens as they passed your test. So 3 of us have tried them and found them fine, whilst you've 'seen them in the shop' and are telling people they are no good. Seriously!
    Marty, come on. You're making my point for me. Do you think it's possible we're talking about different LEDs, and that at some point HB have stocked good ones? And no, I haven't 'assumed' - I read the details on the labels. You need to specify to people what you bought, and what it's good for, not just the shop you bought it from.

    I asked why you assume that people don't choose a new lamp to match an old lamp?
    And I answered - I've answered loads of questions on this forum where people are totally confused about how to switch to LED. What you seem to think is obvious to everyone, because it's obvious to you (and me), is NOT obvious to everyone at all. It pays to be clear, or you'll get into pointless arguments on the internet!
    Result. Can I suggest next time you ask me, and we can have a friendly chat. If you assume and criticise ...... it don't go so well.
    Good stuff. Will do.

    TOTAL LIE!

    I supplied the information on the 24th Feb
    You had a go on the 27th Feb
    Ah right, this isn't the exchange I thought you were referring to. As already explained in relation to this exchange, I was replying to multiple posts, in order.

    What I have been referring to is your original post of 20th Dec, and subsequent ones UP TO 24th Feb, when you finally did supply the info. So that's 2 months of you refusing to provide info (and no, you're not under any compulsion to do it at all, except that some randomer asked you to!), and 3 days overlap where you HAD supplied it. And I corrected myself in the very same post, as you've already pointed out to me. Should I have gone back and edited it? Maybe. Leave it at that.

    At this stage you are probably at lie to the power 5, as you keep lying about lying about ........ are you starting to see why the word troll popped up?
    You keep throwing around the words 'lie' and 'troll' (and seem to enjoy it), I don't accept them. You don't accept my explanation of how I read this forum, and reply to posts in turn. Again, we're not going to agree here.

    You repeatedly use the term 'I bet' to try to get away with a false claim. Do I seem like the sort of person that's going to let you get away with that? Are you starting to see why the word troll popped up?
    Yes, that IS the term that I use. I never stated as fact what you had in your house. I didn't know, so I speculated. That's not lying. Better information from the start, or when asked, would prevent this.
    • almillar
    • By almillar 10th Mar 17, 1:59 PM
    • 6,927 Posts
    • 2,755 Thanks
    almillar
    So they pass your lumens test,
    NO! The ones I saw with my own eyes DID NOT. The ones you bought, you didn't state the lumens originally. THAT IS MY POINT! It's clear at this point that we were talking about different produts, and I can tell by reading lumems figures whether to waste my money 'trying' something. Next time you share your experience of buying lights, would you mind simply quoting your lumens, which you've already stated is so OBVIOUS that I'm a troll for pointing out.

    There are millions of things I haven't bought or tried, shall I tell people they are no good too.
    If a tin of dog food says 'not fit for human consumption' I don't need to eat it to find out.
    Or you'll falsely create a pointless argument, then desperately defend it, even after admitting that you were wrong about everything ..... or simply assume a lamp is bad!
    'Read the specifications of a lamp and check it against what you're replacing.' That's my argument. Is it pointless? You don't answer, instead telling me it's obvious. Is it pointless, or is it obvious? Please separate this from my 'bets', which I have apologised for.

    So you say 2 months, when in truth it was 3 days and 6hrs.

    Fraid this looks like blatant trolling, making false statements deliberately to create/maintain an argument.
    Ah - I didn't check the date of my post. Scrub that then. Sorry. I didn't think we'd been arguing for 2 months just yet!

    and also say you have gone back and edited it.
    Untrue. I asked, hypothetically if I should have. I answered myself, 'maybe'. But I did not edit it, and never claimed to. You've misread, or made-up.

    You've claimed today that I refused to supply you with the information for 2 months, but that's a blatant lie.
    Got that wrong, accepted, apologies.

    a proportionately lower lumens than the HB lamps that supposedly don't give off enough light, and which to your surprise(?) aren't available in 'B27' form?
    What do you even mean by proportionately lower lumens? Lumens per watt? This tells us the efficiency of a lamp, which is useful, sure, but this one gives off far more light. I stated replacing 80-100W bulb in my example, you left that out. Ikea don't do B22 (yes, 22!) but they do sell E27-B22 adaptors.

    I'm away for a week now, just in case I get accused of anything...
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 10th Mar 17, 2:55 PM
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    • 9,556 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    NO! The ones I saw with my own eyes DID NOT. The ones you bought, you didn't state the lumens originally. THAT IS MY POINT! It's clear at this point that we were talking about different produts, and I can tell by reading lumems figures whether to waste my money 'trying' something. Next time you share your experience of buying lights, would you mind simply quoting your lumens, which you've already stated is so OBVIOUS that I'm a troll for pointing out.
    Originally posted by almillar
    Sounds like spin. You can't just tell people who have bought the product that they are all wrong. Rather daft attitude, and excuse.


    If a tin of dog food says 'not fit for human consumption' I don't need to eat it to find out.
    Originally posted by almillar
    Putting aside the fact that tins of dog food are classed as fit for human consumption (though not recommended), I find it odd that you've been having a go at me in post after post for sharing my real experience of some lamps, but think it's ok for you to share your none experience.


    'Read the specifications of a lamp and check it against what you're replacing.' That's my argument. Is it pointless? You don't answer, instead telling me it's obvious. Is it pointless, or is it obvious? Please separate this from my 'bets', which I have apologised for.
    Originally posted by almillar
    Was that another attempt at spin? My issue is that you have repeatedly assumed (for me and others) that we don't check, nor compare. You've stated that I sit in the dark because I've installed cheap lamps.

    So don't backpeddle. You dived in with false claims and bad advice. Bad advice because you instantly assumed that cheaper lamps were no good. You've now acknowledged that that advice was wrong, and are now supporting the very lamps I was pleased with.


    Ah - I didn't check the date of my post. Scrub that then. Sorry. I didn't think we'd been arguing for 2 months just yet!
    Originally posted by almillar
    Seriously! you don't seem to check much, perhaps that's why you assume we don't.

    You complain about me calling you a liar, then lie about 3 days being 2 months, but still come straight back for more arguments. Just how wrong do you have to be, and how many times before you stop?

    I note you haven't complained in this post about my stating (as a fact) that you are a liar. So hopefully that issue has also been sorted today.

    BTW, if you didn't think we'd been arguing for 2 months yet, then doesn't that contradict your 2 month claim. Perhaps I'm simply unable to follow you any further down the rabbit hole know as even you don't seem to know what you are talking about.


    Untrue. I asked, hypothetically if I should have. I answered myself, 'maybe'. But I did not edit it, and never claimed to. You've misread, or made-up.
    Originally posted by almillar
    True. I missed out the word should in my reply.

    But the question remains:

    So you corrected it in the same post (did you?), and also say you should have gone back and edited it.

    You didn't correct the attack, you simply answered me within your reply to Jimjames. Your failing to go back and edit the earlier comments, before posting the reply suggest either a deliberate decision to have a go at me, or an extremely poor memory.


    Got that wrong, accepted, apologies.
    Originally posted by almillar
    Thanks. Perhaps this is the best place/opportunity to suggest you stop trying to dig your way out of a hole. You are only going to keep compounding your errors.


    What do you even mean by proportionately lower lumens? Lumens per watt? This tells us the efficiency of a lamp, which is useful, sure, but this one gives off far more light. I stated replacing 80-100W bulb in my example, you left that out. Ikea don't do B22 (yes, 22!) but they do sell E27-B22 adaptors.
    Originally posted by almillar
    The HB one I bought, which you claim leaves me in the dark is 620lm from 7W, which is 88.57lm/W.

    The B&Q lamps, that darken my house are 806lm from 9W, which is 89.55lm/W.

    The Screwfix lamps, that leave me tripping over the cat are 806lm from 8.7W, which is 92.64lm/W.

    The Lidl lamps you suggest, which are proportionately about 3x more expensive than the ones I've bought, are 1,000lm from 11.5W, which is 86.96lm/W ....... the lowest output.

    Kind of funny, almost ironic, coming from you. BTW, thanks for the Lidl link, but no use to me as they are too bright, and I replace my lamps like for like on a brightness basis. I wouldn't just stick a 1,000lm lamp in - I wouldn't bet on what you might do though.


    Ikea don't do B22 (yes, 22!) but they do sell E27-B22 adaptors.
    Originally posted by almillar
    Yep, and that adds another 50p to the price of each lamp. Should have gone to Screwfix.


    I'm away for a week now, just in case I get accused of anything...
    Originally posted by almillar
    Accused or caught?

    I'll miss you, but don't rush back.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (2.4 ESE & 1.18 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Raxiel
    • By Raxiel 28th Mar 17, 4:21 PM
    • 282 Posts
    • 112 Thanks
    Raxiel
    Personally I'm quite fond of the new(er) filament lamps.

    I think they look nicer, and they seem to have the best lumens/w out there.

    I understand they achieve it by running a larger number of smaller LED's, meaning a lower current, with a higher voltage (closer to mains) resulting in simpler driver circuitry and less waste heat generated in the cap.

    I picked mine up from a few different places in different sizes (from 100 to 950 lm) but this one from B&Q is pretty typical: http://www.diy.com/departments/diall-bayonet-cap-b22-6w-led-filament-classic-light-bulb/1326894_BQ.prd

    Favourite so far though is probably an 8w lamp I picked up on ebay for the bathroom, 950 lumens of 4000k light, so much nicer than the 13w CFL it replaced - we'd kept it there for the same reason others suggest, something that doesn't' blind you when you need a midnight pee, but it always felt gloomy so it's not missed.

    Incidentally, anyone who's interested in how LED lamps actually work, and the difference between good and bad ones (in terms of reliability & safety, not getting into the CRI argument) should look up Big Clive on youtube, he tears them apart and explains how they tick.
    • legoman62
    • By legoman62 31st Mar 17, 5:25 PM
    • 2,046 Posts
    • 10,375 Thanks
    legoman62
    Just changed my old failed 25W fridge lamp for a new LED 2.5W one

    As the saying goes "every little helps"
    Last edited by legoman62; 31-03-2017 at 5:33 PM.
    E Coast. 16 Sanyo Hit 250s.4kWp SMA 3.8kWp inverter. SW roof. 28° pitch.
    Minimal shade. Nov 2011 install. N.E Lincs Coast. Hybrid car
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 1st May 17, 7:32 AM
    • 5,558 Posts
    • 9,556 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    B&Q have reduced the price on some of their filament LED lamps. They have some rather powerful (1,500lm) 12W lamps down to £7 or £8 from £12.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (2.4 ESE & 1.18 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Exiled Tyke
    • By Exiled Tyke 24th May 17, 4:01 PM
    • 212 Posts
    • 773 Thanks
    Exiled Tyke
    G4 replacement
    Can anyone here recommend a decent LED G4 bulb. I need 14 of them (so a reasonable price is a must). Preferably 20W equivalent and reasonably warm coloured. They are to go in a fitting where the bulbs can be see so noting too bulky or ugly.

    Thanks in anticipation.
    Install 28th Nov 15, 3.3kW, (11x300LG), SolarEdge, SW. W Yorks.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 10th Jul 17, 9:21 AM
    • 5,558 Posts
    • 9,556 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Screwfix sale on (with almillar approved LED's ).

    9W 5 pack ES £5.99. Individual at £1.37.

    5.9W candle 99p

    5.8W 3 pack BC £2.99

    ..... ok too many offerings, take a look or I'll be here all day tippy typing away.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (2.4 ESE & 1.18 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
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