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    • Insert_User_Name_Here
    • By Insert_User_Name_Here 16th Dec 16, 1:45 PM
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    Insert_User_Name_Here
    Wright Hassall - Please advise!
    • #1
    • 16th Dec 16, 1:45 PM
    Wright Hassall - Please advise! 16th Dec 16 at 1:45 PM
    Hi All,

    This is my first post so please be gentle! I have read the FAQ's and searched the forum but haven't managed to come up with a definitive answer to my dilemma, as follows:

    Bach in March 2015 I received an invoice for a parking event in my car that happened when I wasn't using it. I decided to ignore it (which was wrong as this forum has now taught me - but ignore it I did....) There were a few more sporadic letters over the months from the parking company, then from ZZPS and finally from Wright Hassall but I assumed they would get bored and move on. However I have now received a 'Formal Letter of Claim' from Wright Hassall which I now wonder if I should finally respond to. And if so, how?

    I'll copy the letter in full below, and if anyone could advise on how I should best proceed I would be most grateful:

    "Dear XXXXX

    FORMAL LETTER OF CLAIM

    Wright Hassall Ref: XXX
    PCN Number: XXXX
    VRN: XXXX
    Location: Kings Heath Retail Park, Birmingham B14 7SN
    Issue date XX/03/15 XX:XX:XX
    Parking event: Parked on private property in breach of the prominently displayed terms & conditions
    Car Park Operator: Civil Enforcement Ltd
    Outstanding Balance: £236.00

    We previously wrote to you in connection with the recovery of the above debt, which has been incurred following the failure to repay the above Parking Charge Notice.

    Payment is now long overdue and accordingly we give you notice that unless this debt is repaid within 14 days of the date of this letter we will review this matter and may be left with no alternative but to issue County Court proceedings seeking a money judgement order which may increase your liability for costs. The details of the judgement will be entered on the register of county court judgements. It will remain on the register of judgements, orders and fines for 6 years. Please note that this may impact your ability to obtain future credit as this information is available to lenders and finance companies.

    Should the debt remain unpaid after the expiry of a judgement order then we may commence enforcement action to recover the above amount plus any costs incurred, via one of the following methods:
    • Issuing an Attachment of Earnings application. If this order is granted it instructs your employer to deduct money from your wages to pay back your debt
    • Issuing a Warrant of Control application. If this order is granted the court permits the use of Bailliffs in the recovery of the total debt outstanding plus costs.

    Please contact us on 01926 758 101 to discuss repayment and avoid the need for any further action. Our offices are open between the hours of 9:00am and 6:00pm Monday to Thursday and 9:00am and 5:30pm on a Friday.

    This letter is in compliance with the applicable Pre Action Protocols, copies may be found at (link to gov_justice website)

    Please note that free independent advice and assistance can be obtained from the fee independence organisations in the attached table overleaf.

    We look forward to hearing from you."

    Any advice would be gratefully received.
Page 1
    • Insert_User_Name_Here
    • By Insert_User_Name_Here 16th Dec 16, 9:17 PM
    • 12 Posts
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    Insert_User_Name_Here
    • #2
    • 16th Dec 16, 9:17 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Dec 16, 9:17 PM
    My main questions are:
    1. Does this count as an official 'Letter Before Claim'
    2. Are they able to pursue me as keeper?

    I believe the 'offence' was overstaying the one hour limit in a Homebase car-park, which I believe the driver visited but did not make a purchase. The rules are signposted but the driver failed to spot them
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Dec 16, 11:35 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 18th Dec 16, 11:35 PM
    • #3
    • 18th Dec 16, 11:35 PM
    This should help:

    https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203747112-Wright-Hassall

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5550717

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71592680

    HTH
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Insert_User_Name_Here
    • By Insert_User_Name_Here 21st Dec 16, 3:19 PM
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    Insert_User_Name_Here
    • #4
    • 21st Dec 16, 3:19 PM
    • #4
    • 21st Dec 16, 3:19 PM
    Many thanks for that. So to pursue me as keeper the original letter must have arrived within 30 days of the event? Is this correct?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Dec 16, 3:26 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 21st Dec 16, 3:26 PM
    • #5
    • 21st Dec 16, 3:26 PM
    No.

    An ANPR PCN issued under the POFA must be served within 14 days and anyway, CEL do not use the POFA wording. They can't hold a keeper liable even if they served the Notice in time. Their choice - driver liability only.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Insert_User_Name_Here
    • By Insert_User_Name_Here 21st Dec 16, 10:52 PM
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    Insert_User_Name_Here
    • #6
    • 21st Dec 16, 10:52 PM
    • #6
    • 21st Dec 16, 10:52 PM
    Great - so if I reply using something along the lines of 'I wasn't driving and am under no obligation to tell you who was, so sling yer hook' (I've seen the proper wording elsewhere on here, just need to dig it out) I should be in the clear?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Dec 16, 1:00 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 22nd Dec 16, 1:00 AM
    • #7
    • 22nd Dec 16, 1:00 AM
    Possibly, or you may have to repeat the same thing but in more detail, as a defence if they throw a small claim at you. We've seen them all off from CEL this year (search CEL defence and you will find plenty of examples).

    None even went to a hearing after being defended with our help but you can't ignore court deadlines or letters, there may be work ahead.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Insert_User_Name_Here
    • By Insert_User_Name_Here 22nd Dec 16, 1:45 PM
    • 12 Posts
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    Insert_User_Name_Here
    • #8
    • 22nd Dec 16, 1:45 PM
    • #8
    • 22nd Dec 16, 1:45 PM
    Ok, thanks for the advice so far. I've come up with this response to their 'formal letter of claim' (see below). Although I am now wondering whether I should respond at all, as it isn't clear to me that this is anything other than another threat to scare me into paying. Perhaps I should just wait to see if they do go down the court route and respond then instead? Comments please - letter below:

    Wright Hassall Solicitors
    Olympus Avenue
    Leamington Spa
    Warwickshire
    CV34 6BF

    Your Ref: XXXXXX

    FORMAL REJECTION OF CLAIM

    I received your letter dated XX/12/16 referring to a parking event in 2015 when a vehicle registered in my name was supposedly ‘parked on private property in breach of the prominently displayed terms and conditions’.

    I was not driving the vehicle on the day in question and the keeper can only be held liable if a notice compliant with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 was issued within 14 days of the event. As such a notice was absent, this Claimant is unable to hold the keeper liable under the strict ‘keeper liability’ provisions.

    As this part of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 is the only means by which the Keeper can be held liable, and there is no other method by which liability can be transferred, I reject any claim against me and will robustly defend this in court if necessary.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Dec 16, 3:11 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 22nd Dec 16, 3:11 PM
    • #9
    • 22nd Dec 16, 3:11 PM
    You should respond to a LBC, because at hearing stage, you can be shown to be unreasonable. Have a look at Small Claims pre-action protocol (Google it, the rules and bullet points are easy to understand) and you will see all parties are expected to make efforts to resolve any dispute. Ignoring can be painted as unreasonable.

    Your response above is perfectly reasonable from a keeper who was not driving, spot on.

    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Insert_User_Name_Here
    • By Insert_User_Name_Here 22nd Dec 16, 3:19 PM
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    Insert_User_Name_Here
    Great - that's going in the post today then! Thanks for your help, and I'll let you if there are any more developments.

    Thanks again.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Dec 16, 3:42 PM
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    • 63,991 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I would email a copy as well, and keep proof of emailing and proof of posting (free cert from the PO Counter, not recorded/signed for).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Insert_User_Name_Here
    • By Insert_User_Name_Here 23rd Dec 16, 12:55 PM
    • 12 Posts
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    Insert_User_Name_Here
    I would email a copy as well
    Done! Thanks again
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 23rd Dec 16, 3:28 PM
    • 7,155 Posts
    • 6,204 Thanks
    The Deep
    £236 is way too much. Even if they took you to court and won you are unlikely to pay more than £200.

    Reply to them thusly

    I have received your letter dated ****

    Notwithstanding that I deny any debt to your client, I note that your letter demands £136 for legal costs

    Your client has either failed woefully in its duty to mitigate costs or the sum has not been incurred and the demand is fraudulent. In neither case am I liable for the payment

    If you insist that the charge is justified, please provide a copy of your invoice to your client


    If this is not possible, please confirm :

    1 The Invoice number and details of the VAT component
    2 The date that your client paid the invoice
    3 Details of the time spent and activities performed for which you charged the client £136

    If none of the requested information is provided, I require a full explanation for the charge

    I will not enter into any discussion of the parking charge until I am satisfied by your reply

    Do not contact me again other than to provide the answers to my questions


    I am copying this letter to the SRA


    Copy to SRA here

    http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/report-solicitor.page
    Last edited by The Deep; 23-12-2016 at 3:30 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Insert_User_Name_Here
    • By Insert_User_Name_Here 12th Oct 17, 8:24 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Insert_User_Name_Here
    Hi everyone. After posting / emailing the above back in December 2016 I heard nothing at all, so assumed it had been dropped - until yesterday when I received court papers (claim form & response pack) in the post from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton.

    In the 'Particulars of claim' section it gives little detail but states 'I will provide the defendant with separate detailed particulars within 14 days after service of the claim form'.

    How should I proceed? Wait the 14 days to see if anything turns up (claim form is dated 05/10 - already 7 days ago)?

    Again, any advice is greatly appreciated.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 12th Oct 17, 8:58 AM
    • 509 Posts
    • 914 Thanks
    Johnersh
    The claim form should be endorsed 'particulars of claim to follow' if that is the position. For clarity please confirm exactly what the particulars on the claim form say.

    If particulars are to be served separately, they have a maximum of 14 days to send them to you under the MCOL specific rules. If the claim form is served with no particulars there is no need to acknowledge and time does not start to run for the preparation of the defence. Receipt of the particulars is key. From then acknowledge and defend as usual.

    The claimant will need to lodge a certificate of service at court to both provide the particulars and establish that they were sent.

    This is (I hope) a good thing if you get a properly pleaded case that will allow you to tailor a better defence. Naturally you should be arguing that where particulars were served by post, the MCOL exemption no longer applies and that in a breach of contract claim, details of the contract should be served with the particulars....
    • Insert_User_Name_Here
    • By Insert_User_Name_Here 12th Oct 17, 10:06 AM
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    Insert_User_Name_Here
    Particulars of Claim:

    Outstanding debt and damages
    DATE-DESCRIPTION-AMOUNT-DUE DATE
    XX/03/15 RefXXXXXXXXXX 236.00 XX/03/15

    Total due- 236.00
    (ref: ce-service co uk or tel:01158225020)
    The claimant claims the sum of 284.36 for
    Outstanding debt and damages
    including 48.36 interest pursuant to
    S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984
    Rate 8.00% pa from dates above to- 04/10/17
    Same rate to Judgement or (sooner) payment
    Daily rate to Judgement- 0.05
    Total debt and interest due- 284.36
    I will provide the defendant with separate
    detailed particulars within 14 days after
    service of the claim form.
    • Insert_User_Name_Here
    • By Insert_User_Name_Here 12th Oct 17, 10:13 AM
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    Insert_User_Name_Here
    Other than the above, I cannot see an endorsement stating 'particulars of claim to follow' anywhere on the claim form
    • Insert_User_Name_Here
    • By Insert_User_Name_Here 12th Oct 17, 11:00 PM
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    Insert_User_Name_Here
    So, am I ok to wait for the promised 'separate detailed particulars', or do I need to respond regardless?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Oct 17, 11:15 PM
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    Redx
    if you have done the AOS online then you have doubled the time from 14 days to 28 days in order to write a defence , plus the claim starts 5 days after the issue date

    so yes as long as you have completed the online AOS you have time to draft a defence and tweak it once or if you get the POC as detailed above

    if you had read the newbies sticky thread post #2 properly, especially the walkthrough by BARGEPOLE , you would know this

    and you wont be filling in the paperwork either
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 13th Oct 17, 12:20 AM
    • 509 Posts
    • 914 Thanks
    Johnersh
    I'm afraid I disagree with RedX on this occasion as that claim form is not pleaded at all, so no need even to acknowledge.

    Because of the debate I've Just double checked the MCOL user guide: See page 14 (it's a download job, so google it). Time does not yet start to run until the complete particulars are served..

    The court will not be able to issue a default judgment unless a proper Particulars of Claim is served and there is a certificate of service upon you, so no panic there.

    The particulars to follow check box (on paper claim forms) is absent from the MCOL form, because it appears as a computer option instead. Sorry for that confusion. However, it seems clear that it has been ticked because:
    I will provide the defendant with separate
    detailed particulars within 14 days after
    service of the claim form.

    is automatically inserted when that box is ticked.

    In summary, you can hold off doing anything and await your defence. If none is received in 14, then check back here.
    Last edited by Johnersh; 13-10-2017 at 6:23 PM. Reason: typo
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