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    • HSR123
    • By HSR123 14th Dec 16, 12:54 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 2Thanks
    HSR123
    BW Legal Claim form
    • #1
    • 14th Dec 16, 12:54 PM
    BW Legal Claim form 14th Dec 16 at 12:54 PM
    Hi Guys,

    I Have just received a claim Form from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton but have. The Claim Form states that the Claimant’s Claim is £100, plus interest, plus costs, plus court fee, plus legal costs totalling £256.60. Letters issue date is 9/12/16 and I received it 13/12/16

    The PCN itself is for a car that was parked at the Quadrant Redditch car park. The PCN was attached to the car as the driver got back to it. The car was also sold on a few weeks later. PCN issue date was 28/2/13

    My gripe with this is that the company has not suffered a financial loss with the car being over by a few minutes as it was pretty empty at the time and also how they can justify a £100 charge for being over by a few minutes is crazy.

    I am currently trying to work out whether I might have any luck with a defence. Any advice and guidance will be appreciated.
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 14th Dec 16, 12:56 PM
    • 31,531 Posts
    • 15,539 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 14th Dec 16, 12:56 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Dec 16, 12:56 PM
    First read up the newbie faq thread near the top of the page to learn about the whole private parking issue you are caught up in.


    There are specific links there to other sources of advice on dealing with a court claim


    (The first thing to do is return the acknowledgement of claim to buy an extra 14 days to get your defence in)
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 14th Dec 16, 12:59 PM
    • 6,971 Posts
    • 6,985 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #3
    • 14th Dec 16, 12:59 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Dec 16, 12:59 PM
    Hi Guys,

    I Have just received a claim Form from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton but have. The Claim Form states that the Claimant’s Claim is £100, plus interest, plus costs, plus court fee, plus legal costs totalling £256.60. Letters issue date is 9/12/16 and I received it 13/12/16

    The PCN itself is for a car that was parked at the Quadrant Redditch car park. The PCN was attached to the car as the driver got back to it. The car was also sold on a few weeks later. PCN issue date was 28/2/13

    My gripe with this is that the company has not suffered a financial loss with the car being over by a few minutes as it was pretty empty at the time and also how they can justify a £100 charge for being over by a few minutes is crazy.

    I am currently trying to work out whether I might have any luck with a defence. Any advice and guidance will be appreciated.
    Originally posted by HSR123
    please read this link , before filling any paperwork in

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5546325&highlight=
    Have YOU had to walk 500 miles?
    Were you advised to walk 500 more?
    You could be entitled to compensation.
    Call the Pro Claimers NOW.
    • HSR123
    • By HSR123 14th Dec 16, 2:02 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    HSR123
    • #4
    • 14th Dec 16, 2:02 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Dec 16, 2:02 PM
    Thanks for the replies guys.

    in regards to the actual incident, do you think I have any chance of it being overturned?
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 14th Dec 16, 2:04 PM
    • 6,971 Posts
    • 6,985 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #5
    • 14th Dec 16, 2:04 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Dec 16, 2:04 PM
    yes , because thier case will be shabby and full of errors , study the paperwork , for a start , the figure they are asking is %^&*£hit , fill the forms in correctly


    PS: does a "few minutes" equel or lower than 10?
    Have YOU had to walk 500 miles?
    Were you advised to walk 500 more?
    You could be entitled to compensation.
    Call the Pro Claimers NOW.
    • HSR123
    • By HSR123 14th Dec 16, 2:34 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    HSR123
    • #6
    • 14th Dec 16, 2:34 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Dec 16, 2:34 PM
    The ticket was stuck on the car literally as it was unlocked, but I cant remember what the expiry time was. If anything it must have been less than 10 minutes after the ticket expiry time.
    • HSR123
    • By HSR123 21st Dec 16, 1:16 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    HSR123
    • #7
    • 21st Dec 16, 1:16 PM
    • #7
    • 21st Dec 16, 1:16 PM
    Bit of an update:

    I have returned the acknowledgment of service letter saying that I will be defending the claim.

    I have also received a letter from BW Legal stating 'notice of county court claim issued'. Once again the letter states the outstanding balance of £256.60 and that they may enter a CCJ against me after the 29th December.

    I have started to daft up my defence argument and will post that up shortly for advice.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Dec 16, 1:19 PM
    • 47,000 Posts
    • 60,373 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 21st Dec 16, 1:19 PM
    • #8
    • 21st Dec 16, 1:19 PM
    Good! You will find shedloads of example defences if you search the forum for 'BW Legal roboclaim defence' or 'Excel defence'.

    Also there are some linked under 'Small Claim?' in the NEWBIES thread too, including Lamilad's defence and thread about how he won.

    Hope you have read enough by now to realise that following the Beavis case a year ago, this stuff about 'no loss' and 'the amount is crazy' will NOT be mentioned in any defence as it has no legs at all as an argument:
    My gripe with this is that the company has not suffered a financial loss with the car being over by a few minutes as it was pretty empty at the time and also how they can justify a £100 charge for being over by a few minutes is crazy.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • HSR123
    • By HSR123 21st Dec 16, 1:23 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    HSR123
    • #9
    • 21st Dec 16, 1:23 PM
    • #9
    • 21st Dec 16, 1:23 PM
    I have indeed read about the 'no loss' being insufficient to win a case, its just me being annoyed with an empty car park haha
    • HSR123
    • By HSR123 3rd Jan 17, 9:15 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    HSR123
    I have been reading around on the forum and have picked up on several relevant points my scenario but I'm struggling to find statements that relate to the 10 minute grace period. Any further points will be appreciated greatly as I don't think I have much time left to respond.

    I have also got several points listed below:

    The charge is an unenforceable penalty, neither based upon a genuine pre-estimate of loss nor any commercial justification. The Beavis case confirmed that the penalty rule is certainly engaged in any case of a private parking charge and was only disengaged due to the unique circumstances of that case, which do not resemble this claim.

    The claim is unsigned and simply marked 'Legal Team' in typeface. The Claimant has provided no further details of how the proposed £50 legal representative's fees have been accrued. The claimant has added unrecoverable sums to the original parking charge. If 'Legal Team' is or are an employee or employees then the Defendant suggests they are remunerated and the claim/draft claim are templates, so it is not credible that £50 legal costs were incurred. Nor it is believed that any fee was paid to any debt recovery agency so the Claimant is put to strict proof it has. I deny the Claimant is entitled to any interest whatsoever.

    The Protection of Freedoms Act does not permit the Claimant to recover a sum greater than the parking charge on the day before a Notice to Keeper was issued. The Claimant cannot recover additional charges. The Defendant also has the reasonable belief that the Claimant has not incurred the stated additional costs and it is put to strict proof that they have actually been incurred. Even if they have been incurred, the Claimant has described them as "Legal representatives costs". These cannot be recovered in the Small Claims Court regardless of the identity of the driver.
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 3rd Jan 17, 10:50 PM
    • 25,672 Posts
    • 32,231 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    Bit of an update:

    I have returned the acknowledgment of service letter saying that I will be defending the claim.

    I have also received a letter from BW Legal stating 'notice of county court claim issued'. Once again the letter states the outstanding balance of £256.60 and that they may enter a CCJ against me after the 29th December.

    I have started to daft up my defence argument and will post that up shortly for advice.
    Originally posted by HSR123
    The ppc cannot issue a ccj, neither can their toy legal company. A ccj can only be issued by a court after( if) you lose the case and refuse to pay the sum the court decides.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • HSR123
    • By HSR123 8th Jan 17, 2:26 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    HSR123
    I've attached a copy of my defence bellow and would appreciate any feedback in regards to any changes that can be made before I sent it of. Thanks in advance.

    1) The claim is denied in its entirety for the following reasons, any of which are sufficient to dismiss the claim the charge is for an underpayment of around £1. There is therefore no justification for charging £100.

    2) The vehicle stated in the incident was not given a 10 minute grace period post ticket expiry which must be allowed by law. The parking ticket was issued as the driver returned to the car within the 10 minute grace period and a reasonable grace period has not been given.

    3) The charge is an unenforceable penalty, neither based upon a genuine pre-estimate of loss nor any commercial justification. The Beavis case confirmed that the penalty rule is certainly engaged in any case of a private parking charge and was only disengaged due to the unique circumstances of that case, which do not resemble this claim.

    4) The claim is unsigned and simply marked 'Legal Team' in typeface. The Claimant has provided no further details of how the proposed £50 legal representative's fees have been accrued. The claimant has added unrecoverable sums to the original parking charge. If 'Legal Team' is or are an employee or employees then the Defendant suggests they are remunerated and the claim/draft claim are templates, so it is not credible that £50 legal costs were incurred. Nor it is believed that any fee was paid to any debt recovery agency so the Claimant is put to strict proof it has. I deny the Claimant is entitled to any interest whatsoever.

    5) The Protection of Freedoms Act does not permit the Claimant to recover a sum greater than the parking charge on the day before a Notice to Keeper was issued. The Claimant cannot recover additional charges. The Defendant also has the reasonable belief that the Claimant has not incurred the stated additional costs and it is put to strict proof that they have actually been incurred. Even if they have been incurred, the Claimant has described them as "Legal representatives costs". These cannot be recovered in the Small Claims Court regardless of the identity of the driver.

    6) Additionally, any monies over £100 are not allowed by the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and are an attempt to artificially boost the claim in an attempt to get around the costs limits in small claims cases.
    • HSR123
    • By HSR123 23rd Feb 17, 11:42 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    HSR123
    Update Time

    I submitted my defence last month to the court and received a letter from BW legal saying that they will be continuing with the claim.
    I have now received a N180 form from the courts which I need to fill and return by 2/3/17

    Looks like I'm going to court......... Lucky me
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Feb 17, 12:26 PM
    • 47,000 Posts
    • 60,373 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yep but most here win! See bargepole's post about court procedure (in the NEWBIES thread) if you have any questions about the N180 or later, the time when you must file a Witness Statement and evidence, a few weeks prior to the hearing date.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • HSR123
    • By HSR123 17th May 17, 4:18 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    HSR123
    Another update:

    Finally had my letter from the courts confirming the date of the hearing. I also noticed on the letter that it states "unless the claimant does by (2 weeks time) pay the court trial fee or file a properly completed application the claim will be struck out"

    Am I right by saying BW legal/ Excel Parking haven't provided one of the 2 requirements stated above or is this a standard letter than has been sent out?

    Thanks
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 17th May 17, 7:28 PM
    • 684 Posts
    • 1,485 Thanks
    Lamilad
    It's a standard letter from the court advising the claimant that they must pay the court fee by xx date and you and the claimant that you must file and serve copies of all documents and evidence upon which you wish to rely by xx date (usually 14 days before the hearing)
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th May 17, 8:27 PM
    • 47,000 Posts
    • 60,373 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    As Lamilad says - more important is that you read (page 2) what you have to do and by when.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

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