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  • FIRST POST
    • ninjashade314
    • By ninjashade314 11th Dec 16, 10:34 AM
    • 9Posts
    • 1Thanks
    ninjashade314
    Advice desperately needed... HELP PLEASE!!
    • #1
    • 11th Dec 16, 10:34 AM
    Advice desperately needed... HELP PLEASE!! 11th Dec 16 at 10:34 AM
    I am realising now that what I pursued as a dream life isn't going to work for me, and now just need to get out of this massive hole that I have digged myself into.
    I have been racking up debt of just over £50k, wholly due to index trading via Spread Betting platform which kept going wrong, but I kept telling myself to make good trades and eventually things would turn around and manage all the debt plus make a living out of it. It turns out that it was not the case, and last week I blew the last £5k (stupidly on credit card) and now suddenly I am lost as to how I am going to get out of this debt mountain..

    My debt breakdown is as follows:
    HSBC personal loan: Firstly took out £5k in March 2015, then increased to £15k in Aug 2015, then to £25k (maxed out) in Oct 2015. == currently standing at £23k
    Sainsburys loan: £15k in July 2016. == currently at £15k (last few payments covered interest)
    Overdraft: I had been on £1500 limit for years, but in Oct 2016 I requested a raise to £5k (max available) online which got accepted. == currently at £4500
    Credit Card: Had been on £2200 limit for a while, which got increased to £7500 just 2 weeks ago which subsequently funded my last blowout this month. == currently at £7200 but will receive an interest bomb soon which would prob. reach £7400

    In summary, now I have £50k debt mountain wholly through index trading via SB, and have no way of paying back. I am currently on a payroll at my mum's company getting £500 per month for helping out here and there. I live with family but have no assets.

    I looked at my options Bankruptcy vs IVA, but am not sure which one would be better for me. Also I have 2 worries about bankruptcy after reading that debt obtained with false info could remain live after bankruptcy discharge.
    1. The 2 personal loans I was accepted for entering wrong income info (used my job details from 2012 when I was working at an investment bank), although neither HSBC nor Sainsburys performed due diligence in verifying or asking for proof.
    2. As far as I know Spread Betting is considered as gambling in the UK, does it mean my debts caused by index trading would also fall into this category? If this is the case, then there is no point in going into bankruptcy to get the debts written off.

    Long post, but I am really in desperate need of help. I am feeling anxious and having difficulty sleeping at night. I would really appreciate any advice for my problems.
Page 1
    • WantToBeSE
    • By WantToBeSE 11th Dec 16, 11:01 AM
    • 6,778 Posts
    • 30,547 Thanks
    WantToBeSE
    • #2
    • 11th Dec 16, 11:01 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Dec 16, 11:01 AM
    OK, first of all you need to stop trading immediately (sounds like you have to do this anyway, due to not having any more money), and get another job. Whether this is as well as you helping your mum, or instead of. When you have a proper income, you will be able to afford to pay your debts.

    Then you need to do a debt snowball, or debt avalanche. in the snowball, you list your debts from lowest to highest and pay them off in that order.
    In the avalanche, you list from highest interest to lowest interest, and pay off in that order.

    I dont see any point in telling the creditors that you applied with fraudulent information. It was a stupid thing to do, you made bad decisions. Give yourself a bloody good telling off, and then just do as I've suggested above.
    3/6 month emergency fund challenge #20
    PODBX17 #122

    Debt Free Diary http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5501794

    Total debt:
    14/01/2017 £6247.89
    24/02/17 £5623.17

    Estimated DFD Jan 2018
    • TheGardener
    • By TheGardener 11th Dec 16, 12:10 PM
    • 2,125 Posts
    • 2,015 Thanks
    TheGardener
    • #3
    • 11th Dec 16, 12:10 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Dec 16, 12:10 PM
    Whether true or not, this post is not at all helpful. I thought this forum was for non-judgemental support. Whilst advising OP to seek employment would be helpful, the manner and aggression of the post is not.
    Originally posted by Allotrope
    Hi Allotrope - yes, this forum is meant to be non-judgemental - but not everyone follows the rules.
    You need to:
    a)Get help with any gambling addition
    b) Make an appointment to speak to a free debt charity Stepchange/CAB/National Debtline ASAP.
    In the meantime - you need to find a way to make sure you have an income and can cover your basic living costs. - start looking for a job if you don't already have one.
    All debts unsecured debts fall in to BR.
    • ninjashade314
    • By ninjashade314 11th Dec 16, 1:09 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    ninjashade314
    • #4
    • 11th Dec 16, 1:09 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Dec 16, 1:09 PM
    Hi Allotrope - yes, this forum is meant to be non-judgemental - but not everyone follows the rules.
    You need to:
    a)Get help with any gambling addition
    b) Make an appointment to speak to a free debt charity Stepchange/CAB/National Debtline ASAP.
    In the meantime - you need to find a way to make sure you have an income and can cover your basic living costs. - start looking for a job if you don't already have one.
    All debts unsecured debts fall in to BR.
    Originally posted by TheGardener
    Thanks for the advice. So even in my case all the unsecured debts I listed above would fall into BR and would be written off (even with some false information and debts caused by spread betting) after discharge?

    OK, first of all you need to stop trading immediately (sounds like you have to do this anyway, due to not having any more money), and get another job. Whether this is as well as you helping your mum, or instead of. When you have a proper income, you will be able to afford to pay your debts.

    Then you need to do a debt snowball, or debt avalanche. in the snowball, you list your debts from lowest to highest and pay them off in that order.
    In the avalanche, you list from highest interest to lowest interest, and pay off in that order.

    I dont see any point in telling the creditors that you applied with fraudulent information. It was a stupid thing to do, you made bad decisions. Give yourself a bloody good telling off, and then just do as I've suggested above.
    Originally posted by WantToBeSE
    I know I made terrible decisions and I am truly regretting it. I would like to make a clean start, even if bankruptcy would hinder my credit activities for years to come. Of course getting a proper job and income is my option but as it is not guaranteed (I have been looking for a job since July but without much success so far) it is why I am looking into bankruptcy to make a clean start from 2017.
    Last edited by ninjashade314; 11-12-2016 at 1:14 PM.
    • Flyright
    • By Flyright 11th Dec 16, 2:21 PM
    • 306 Posts
    • 170 Thanks
    Flyright
    • #5
    • 11th Dec 16, 2:21 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Dec 16, 2:21 PM
    The matter of you applying for credit using false information will have to be disclosed to the Official Receiver as they will investigate how and when you applied for credit as part of their legal requirement to investigate causes of bankruptcy.
    • TheGardener
    • By TheGardener 11th Dec 16, 2:27 PM
    • 2,125 Posts
    • 2,015 Thanks
    TheGardener
    • #6
    • 11th Dec 16, 2:27 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Dec 16, 2:27 PM
    Thanks for the advice. So even in my case all the unsecured debts I listed above would fall into BR and would be written off (even with some false information and debts caused by spread betting) after discharge?
    Originally posted by ninjashade314
    Yes - ALL unsecured debts will be included.
    How you got to this position will of course be of interest to the OR and they may make you subject to a Bankruptcy Restriction Order if they feel your behaviour was irresponsible or the outcome of a gambling addiction. However, that doesn't change the fact all the debts will be included. You MUST seek advice from one of the debt charities though - especially if your 'day job' is in the financial sector as your profession may be one that BR's are excluded from doing...and yes, BR will indeed hinder your credit activities for at least 6 years - like - no credit at all- type hindered if you have a BRO or fraud marker on your files.
    Last edited by TheGardener; 11-12-2016 at 2:33 PM.
    • london1973
    • By london1973 11th Dec 16, 2:54 PM
    • 299 Posts
    • 78 Thanks
    london1973
    • #7
    • 11th Dec 16, 2:54 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Dec 16, 2:54 PM
    spread betting firms are by and large FSA regulated and therefore debts to these companies will fall into bankruptcy, I know from experience, HOWEVER none of your creditors appear to be spread betting firms, or any other gambling companies, so your question is somewhat irrelevant- you may have used the funds to gamble, but the creditors themselves are not gambling companies...but banks, credit cards etc, which all will be part of the bankruptcy
    I wouldn't get too concerned re your misinformation worry, the OR has heard all of this before, perhaps multiple times a day, and you might get a slap on the wrist, but no more I expect-
    • Flyright
    • By Flyright 11th Dec 16, 2:58 PM
    • 306 Posts
    • 170 Thanks
    Flyright
    • #8
    • 11th Dec 16, 2:58 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Dec 16, 2:58 PM
    I don't think that is accurate to say...applying for credit using false information IS serious and it is something the Official Receiver can report to prosecuting authorities as fraud.
    • ninjashade314
    • By ninjashade314 11th Dec 16, 3:06 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    ninjashade314
    • #9
    • 11th Dec 16, 3:06 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Dec 16, 3:06 PM
    Yes - ALL unsecured debts will be included.
    How you got to this position will of course be of interest to the OR and they may make you subject to a Bankruptcy Restriction Order if they feel your behaviour was irresponsible or the outcome of a gambling addiction. However, that doesn't change the fact all the debts will be included. You MUST seek advice from one of the debt charities though - especially if your 'day job' is in the financial sector as your profession may be one that BR's are excluded from doing...and yes, BR will indeed hinder your credit activities for at least 6 years - like - no credit at all- type hindered if you have a BRO or fraud marker on your files.
    Originally posted by TheGardener
    My day job currently is just small job so bankruptcy won't impact at all. I am worried about this false income info because if I do decide to go bankrupt then I would not want the debts kept alive if they judge as fraud or any serious consequences such as prosecution.
    • TheGardener
    • By TheGardener 11th Dec 16, 3:17 PM
    • 2,125 Posts
    • 2,015 Thanks
    TheGardener
    As stated a number of times - ALL unsecured debts will fall into BR.
    Fraud may cause a number of other associated problems - but it wont stop your unsecured debts being included.
    I think the only exceptions are student loans, court fines, child maintenance and DSS benefits.
    • ninjashade314
    • By ninjashade314 11th Dec 16, 5:59 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    ninjashade314
    I don't think that is accurate to say...applying for credit using false information IS serious and it is something the Official Receiver can report to prosecuting authorities as fraud.
    Originally posted by Flyright
    This is what I am really afraid of... I know I made a terrible mistake and am regretting it Is it under the discretion of the OR to report as fraud or not?
    • luvchocolate
    • By luvchocolate 11th Dec 16, 6:12 PM
    • 1,439 Posts
    • 1,288 Thanks
    luvchocolate
    please get advice from from one of the debt free charities.
    • london1973
    • By london1973 11th Dec 16, 8:51 PM
    • 299 Posts
    • 78 Thanks
    london1973
    I have no idea if this is a genuine post or not and I am not suggesting the fraud is not serious, however the liklihood is the OR will not question you with regard to how you obtained the loans and the information you provided-and i wouldn't offer this either unless very specifically asked-you have to tell the truth
    On the face of it your BR looks fairly straightforward and uncomplicated, relatively speaking quite small numbers with a small number of conventional creditors, I expect your interview will be brief- they have bigger fish to fry, are massively under-resourced etc etc
    I MAY BE WRONG, I am not an expert, this is a gut feeling from my experience and others I have spoken to in recent times
    • ninjashade314
    • By ninjashade314 11th Dec 16, 8:54 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    ninjashade314
    I have no idea if this is a genuine post or not and I am not suggesting the fraud is not serious, however the liklihood is the OR will not question you with regard to how you obtained the loans and the information you provided-and i wouldn't offer this either unless very specifically asked-you have to tell the truth
    On the face of it your BR looks fairly straightforward and uncomplicated, relatively speaking quite small numbers with a small number of conventional creditors, I expect your interview will be brief- they have bigger fish to fry, are massively under-resourced etc etc
    I MAY BE WRONG, I am not an expert, this is a gut feeling from my experience and others I have spoken to in recent times
    Originally posted by london1973
    Thanks for your reply. Yes this is a genuine story as I am going through this right now, and I would like to make sure I fully understand the possible consequences and implications of going BR before deciding. I will consult debt free charity tomorrow for more clarification too. Many thanks guys for advice.
    • rjwr
    • By rjwr 11th Dec 16, 8:54 PM
    • 282 Posts
    • 186 Thanks
    rjwr
    just apply for bankruptcy - good luck.

    if this is a troll post. good luck, you must be bored.
    • adyj73
    • By adyj73 12th Dec 16, 11:38 AM
    • 161 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    adyj73
    You are just going to have to come clean mate! I suggest you start immediately!
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