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  • FIRST POST
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 6th Dec 16, 7:26 PM
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    Davesnave
    Conservatory fitting issue
    • #1
    • 6th Dec 16, 7:26 PM
    Conservatory fitting issue 6th Dec 16 at 7:26 PM
    I'm not having much luck at present.

    On and off through the year I've been preparing for the fitting of a new combined conservatory/porch, which was sold to us in January.

    The specs were modified in September when the surveyor made his site visit prior to manufacture, but nothing was changed after that, except the price!

    We agreed a number of changes, and in the absence of a written spec, I supplied an annotated final drawing based on the rather small ones sent to me by email.

    The fitters turned-up last week and within a few hours they'd put in a sill which neither my builder nor I were happy with. It appears that the surveyor made an error, having the sill made as one piece, when there was a change of level clearly shown in the plans.

    Their solution to this was to make a cut and the result is shown in the photo below:



    As I understand it, the fitters intend to put an end cap over the cut end and "it will look fine." There was no discussion with me prior to him taking this decision.

    picture share

    The builder and myself have both queried this and said we're not happy, but the fitter has maintained that this is what had to be done: a different arrangement wouldn't shed water properly.

    I feel I'm being blinded with science (or BS!) here, so I've put the picture up for commentsfrom those familiar with UPVC window fitting etc.

    Meanwhile, the roof has gone on.....but there's another panel in the conservatory part that's Pete Tong as well, so we may be seeing the surveyor tomorrow.

    Do we (can we) ask for a change here? Unlike the other item I've recently sought help with, I haven't paid for this yet!

    What would you do?
    Last edited by Davesnave; 06-12-2016 at 9:03 PM.
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
Page 6
    • phil24_7
    • By phil24_7 5th Sep 17, 10:02 PM
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    phil24_7
    Did you send them a letter saying 'In full and final settlement'?

    If not then you have just paid some money towards the outstanding amount!
    • phil24_7
    • By phil24_7 5th Sep 17, 10:04 PM
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    phil24_7
    But yes, you are right, small claims is their only real course of action now.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 5th Sep 17, 10:24 PM
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    • 88,464 Thanks
    Davesnave
    Did you send them a letter saying 'In full and final settlement'?

    If not then you have just paid some money towards the outstanding amount!
    Originally posted by phil24_7
    We sent a very detailed letter showing how they had broken their own T&C and the logic behind our withholding £4k.

    We added: "We shall continue to hold this money until either an arbitration judgement or a court has ordered its payment, because we do not believe that we owe you any more."

    So, it's clear enough that we consider we've made a full and final payment.


    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • Furts
    • By Furts 6th Sep 17, 6:58 AM
    • 3,479 Posts
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    Furts

    Now the GGF have gone silent. Our last submission to them wasn't acknowledged. Just before we sent it, they told us our case was unlikely to meet the criteria for submission to arbitration.

    We replied that the only way forward for their member would then appear to be via the Small Claims route, where we would be very happy to meet them.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    Which begs the question what is the point of GGF? One point is to con consumers into thinking conservatory purchase has some form of accreditation, and technical support. Basically to reassure consumers that whilst they are entering an unregulated minefield, there are worthy people with standards to uphold. However, the reality is GGF is a trade organisation which acts to protect its' members. Which is what you have found out.

    The upside is you are happy with your financial position over all of this. But this is only a result of your mindset and perseverance. Perhaps 90%+ of consumers would have given in long ago and bowed down to the conservatory company. Which of course is exactly what the conservatory industry and the GGF want.

    For years I have posted that conservatories are an unregulated minefield, There is nothing in your sorry saga which makes me change my stance.

    But you are happy, so well done Dave.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 6th Sep 17, 7:55 AM
    • 13,433 Posts
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    We sent a very detailed letter showing how they had broken their own T&C and the logic behind our withholding £4k.

    We added: "We shall continue to hold this money until either an arbitration judgement or a court has ordered its payment, because we do not believe that we owe you any more."

    So, it's clear enough that we consider we've made a full and final payment.


    Originally posted by Davesnave
    Well - let's hope thats that now Dave..fingers crossed. I've been following your conservatory saga - as I want a conservatory at some point.

    I just hope you don't get caught on a "technicality" here. These blinkin' technicalities that sometimes cause things to go the wrong way. In this case the "technicality" that you clearly mean the money to be "in full and final settlement" and that's obvious - but you haven't used those exact words.
    If there's "4 tendencies" type of people (Gretchen Rubin) = yep....Questioner type here
    - Meets an expectation only if they believe it's justified and resists anything arbitrary or ineffective
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 6th Sep 17, 8:08 AM
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    Davesnave
    I think the salient point here is that judges hearing small claims don't like their courts being used as a first resort. They're more likely to act favourably if there have been genuine attempts at a resolution via mediation and arbitration.

    My wife and I have therefore jumped through the appropriate hoops to show that we're "reasonable people."

    While I'm not 100% happy with the way things have turned-out, I'm content to leave the situation as it stands. There's plenty of other things to think about towards the end of our large refurbishment project.

    Distractions like this just cause delay, stress and wear one down. It's time to move on.....
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • Furts
    • By Furts 6th Sep 17, 8:48 AM
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    • 2,178 Thanks
    Furts
    Well - let's hope thats that now Dave..fingers crossed. I've been following your conservatory saga - as I want a conservatory at some point.

    .
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    I think Dave has done brilliantly with his conservatory issues. But my alarm bells ring at the thought of you having a conservatory. Thinking of your recent paint problems, and every other issue you have experienced since moving West, I pose a question. Do you really expect to receive a satisfactory conservatory?

    If you draw up a Specification on every aspect, then Project Manage/ Clerk Of Works the construction then you are in with a chance. Not a guaranteed chance because conservatory design and construction is largely smoke and mirrors. Dave has found this with his roof pitches, and box gutter fixing and sizing as typical examples.

    If you want the dice loaded in your favour then opt for a sunroom.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 6th Sep 17, 10:22 AM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    I think Dave has done brilliantly with his conservatory issues. But my alarm bells ring at the thought of you having a conservatory. Thinking of your recent paint problems, and every other issue you have experienced since moving West, I pose a question. Do you really expect to receive a satisfactory conservatory?

    If you draw up a Specification on every aspect, then Project Manage/ Clerk Of Works the construction then you are in with a chance. Not a guaranteed chance because conservatory design and construction is largely smoke and mirrors. Dave has found this with his roof pitches, and box gutter fixing and sizing as typical examples.

    If you want the dice loaded in your favour then opt for a sunroom.
    Originally posted by Furts
    and I do see the point. What would you say was the basic difference between a sunroom and a conservatory? Quick google of "images sunrooms uk" and, on some of the pictures, a noticeable amount of the "walls" are brick instead of glass. Is that what you would say?
    If there's "4 tendencies" type of people (Gretchen Rubin) = yep....Questioner type here
    - Meets an expectation only if they believe it's justified and resists anything arbitrary or ineffective
    • Furts
    • By Furts 6th Sep 17, 12:27 PM
    • 3,479 Posts
    • 2,178 Thanks
    Furts
    and I do see the point. What would you say was the basic difference between a sunroom and a conservatory? Quick google of "images sunrooms uk" and, on some of the pictures, a noticeable amount of the "walls" are brick instead of glass. Is that what you would say?
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    The basic difference comes down to a simple concept that I regularly get off my chest. Conservatory work is entirely unregulated - anything goes and the Wild West rules apply. No sensible human being builds in plastic hollow profiles and glass units. Why? If we were factual and we should call these structures glasshouses and then pretended we were plants.

    A sunroom will have walls, and proper foundations, and a proper insulated floor slab, and proper insulated walls and a proper insulated roof. Why? Because it is built to the principles of building and to comply with the Buildings Regulations. Conservatories are exempt from most of these concepts! Which is why one hears endless comments about condensation, leaks, over heating, poor ventilation and so on.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 6th Sep 17, 1:05 PM
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    Davesnave

    A sunroom will have walls, and proper foundations, and a proper insulated floor slab, and proper insulated walls....
    Originally posted by Furts
    I do have all of these on my conservatory, and plenty of ventilation.

    It's the 'proper insulated roof' I didn't want, due to losing too much light.

    I know there are ways around that....all too expensive. One cuts one's coat etc.

    Money will have to decide, as I did, if the loss of light would be an issue for her.
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • Furts
    • By Furts 6th Sep 17, 5:27 PM
    • 3,479 Posts
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    Furts
    I do have all of these on my conservatory, and plenty of ventilation.

    It's the 'proper insulated roof' I didn't want, due to losing too much light.

    I know there are ways around that....all too expensive. One cuts one's coat etc.

    Money will have to decide, as I did, if the loss of light would be an issue for her.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    money is a switched on cookie. So I suspect a sunroom will meet the bill, but with adequate Velux to give light. Just be careful with the tile detail - large concrete interlocking do not go well with Velux on small roofs. Think of cut tiles and how they are fixed. Small plain tiles might fit the bill better.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 6th Sep 17, 8:38 PM
    • 13,433 Posts
    • 36,608 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    money is a switched on cookie. So I suspect a sunroom will meet the bill, but with adequate Velux to give light. Just be careful with the tile detail - large concrete interlocking do not go well with Velux on small roofs. Think of cut tiles and how they are fixed. Small plain tiles might fit the bill better.
    Originally posted by Furts
    at switched-on cookie. Others would regard me as "that blimmin' woman" (a way I have been described before now).

    Tiles - right - I don't like "large concrete interlocking" (bearing in mind my general hatred for concrete anything-I-can-possibly-help).

    Hmmm....small plain tiles....hmmm...I'm trying to visualise exactly what you mean by that. Do you have any google images of what you mean please? Once I can picture them in my mind then I'll have more of an idea what I'd be looking at.

    Sunroom rather than conservatory - hmmm....less glass possibly - but I'm guessing one could still have an all-glass roof coming under sunroom heading? Failing that - there's an element of whack a couple of power points into it and I gather the sort of lighting one can use for growing on seeds for the garden indoors has come on in leaps and bounds since I last checked it out online....hmmm.....

    You will doubtless be pleased to know that a job currently being done in my house looks like it's coming up to my standards....I'm getting it figured-out as to who to pick/not pick here....
    If there's "4 tendencies" type of people (Gretchen Rubin) = yep....Questioner type here
    - Meets an expectation only if they believe it's justified and resists anything arbitrary or ineffective
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 7th Sep 17, 6:46 AM
    • 23,115 Posts
    • 88,464 Thanks
    Davesnave
    Like me, money lives in a bungalow. so unless she has a suitable gable end wall to use, a tiled roof will probably not be an option.
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • Furts
    • By Furts 7th Sep 17, 7:43 AM
    • 3,479 Posts
    • 2,178 Thanks
    Furts
    at switched-on cookie. Others would regard me as "that blimmin' woman" (a way I have been described before now).

    Tiles - right - I don't like "large concrete interlocking" (bearing in mind my general hatred for concrete anything-I-can-possibly-help).

    Hmmm....small plain tiles....hmmm...I'm trying to visualise exactly what you mean by that. Do you have any google images of what you mean please? Once I can picture them in my mind then I'll have more of an idea what I'd be looking at.

    Sunroom rather than conservatory - hmmm....less glass possibly - but I'm guessing one could still have an all-glass roof coming under sunroom heading? Failing that - there's an element of whack a couple of power points into it and I gather the sort of lighting one can use for growing on seeds for the garden indoors has come on in leaps and bounds since I last checked it out online....hmmm.....

    You will doubtless be pleased to know that a job currently being done in my house looks like it's coming up to my standards....I'm getting it figured-out as to who to pick/not pick here....
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    An all glass roof will not be an insulated roof, hence my comment about tiles and Velux to form a roof. How many Velux giving how much light would be designed and budgetted for.
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