Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 5th Dec 16, 3:57 PM
    • 5,679Posts
    • 9,685Thanks
    Martyn1981
    On-grid domestic battery storage
    • #1
    • 5th Dec 16, 3:57 PM
    On-grid domestic battery storage 5th Dec 16 at 3:57 PM
    Hello!

    Right, as discussed elsewhere, battery storage for self generation (typically PV) is interesting (to some), and gathering momentum in the UK. So here's a thread to discuss it, and watch it develop.

    I've called it on-grid, as off-grid is so much more specialised. And domestic as commercial scale storage, or grid scale can be chatted about on the Green & Ethical energy issues thread.

    So, where are, well this article lists about 20 systems that are available or should be available soon:-

    Introducing CleanTechnica’s New Home Battery Overview Page

    Jumping straight in with personal opinions:-

    Economical - Not yet. Prices are falling fast, the range of products is expanding fast, and large numbers are being deployed in some countries, either because the price of leccy is high (Australia & Hawaii) or because subsidy schemes exist (Sweden & Germany).

    Where are we today. My needs are a 4kWh system. That's 4kWh of useable capacity, which would mean about 8kWh of lead acid (LA), or about 5kWh of lithium ion (Li-ion). My research has found batts in the high £2k and up range. I need the price to be nearer to £1.5k.

    The Tesla Powerwall II, installed is approx £6.5k, which works out at about £2.2k for 5kWh, but of course, it doesn't work quite like that, as smaller systems will cost proportionately more.

    Environmental - Tricky one this (to say the least). Until storage is needed, it's not environmental. Renewable energy (RE) generation currently displaces gas generation, which is a demand follower. Once gas generation is pushed down to zero (at times) we need storage, but we aren't there yet.

    However, to push gas generation down to zero, we need more RE, and to ensure it is viable/economic/profitable, we will need storage - chicken and egg situation.

    The advantage of storage to the environment, is to take peaks of RE and timeshift them to peaks in electricity demand. On a domestic level, this works quite well as PV generates during the day into the afternoon (or evening) depending on the month, so any stored leccy is available for the evening peak 5pm to 7pm.

    That's the background, and now here's a thread to discuss options, prices, economics, and watch things unfold. Enjoy.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
Page 4
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 14th Mar 17, 4:43 PM
    • 5,679 Posts
    • 9,685 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Unfortunately I cannot find anything else out about the battery itself - crucially expected cycles. Still it looks like a step in the right direction.
    Originally posted by Exiled Tyke
    Forgot to mention this, but I think it needs its own post as this is so important. That battery appears to come with a 6,000 cycle and 10yr warranty.

    TBH, I'm making most of this up as I go along, trying to figure out what 'a good battery' is. My gut feeling is that the economics need to improve a lot, but regardless, we'll still need at least 10yrs to have any hope of making the investment viable, so I think 10yrs is a minimum, and 5,000+ cycles even better.

    Looking at the CleanTechnica list, the cycles, warranties, life expectancies etc seem to vary not only in length but description too, so hopefully we'll see some sort of standardisation as the years progress.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Exiled Tyke
    • By Exiled Tyke 14th Mar 17, 10:08 PM
    • 219 Posts
    • 781 Thanks
    Exiled Tyke
    Forgot to mention this, but I think it needs its own post as this is so important. That battery appears to come with a 6,000 cycle and 10yr warranty.

    TBH, I'm making most of this up as I go along, trying to figure out what 'a good battery' is. My gut feeling is that the economics need to improve a lot, but regardless, we'll still need at least 10yrs to have any hope of making the investment viable, so I think 10yrs is a minimum, and 5,000+ cycles even better.

    Looking at the CleanTechnica list, the cycles, warranties, life expectancies etc seem to vary not only in length but description too, so hopefully we'll see some sort of standardisation as the years progress.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981

    So essentially you are speculating that this offer is still twice the price of what it needs to be to be worthwhile?
    Install 28th Nov 15, 3.3kW, (11x300LG), SolarEdge, SW. W Yorks.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 15th Mar 17, 7:29 AM
    • 5,679 Posts
    • 9,685 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    So essentially you are speculating that this offer is still twice the price of what it needs to be to be worthwhile?
    Originally posted by Exiled Tyke
    For me, yep. I think I could reduce import by about 900kWh pa, which would save me about £110, plus I could switch to a NSC tariff which would save me a bit more (after allowing for the higher leccy price), so perhaps £150, or £1,500 over 10 years.

    Higher leccy users with enough export to make use of it would benefit more, and the batteries get proportionately cheaper as they get bigger.

    Also need to ponder how leccy prices will rise, as that will help, if cycle warranty is 10,000, or 15-20yrs that makes a big difference, also time of day tariffs, as that recent idea of 5p/kWh through the night is probably cheaper than the cost of a battery, so I'd half my battery size and only focus on balancing during the day, and covering evening demand.

    Genuinely don't know how to work this out. I can make a logical assumption for myself, based on generation, export and import and consumption patterns, but I'm not sure there is any kind of rule of thumb - we may all have to do some number crunching individually.

    Are we having fun yet?
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Exiled Tyke
    • By Exiled Tyke 15th Mar 17, 9:30 AM
    • 219 Posts
    • 781 Thanks
    Exiled Tyke
    For me, yep. I think I could reduce import by about 900kWh pa, which would save me about £110, plus I could switch to a NSC tariff which would save me a bit more (after allowing for the higher leccy price), so perhaps £150, or £1,500 over 10 years.

    Higher leccy users with enough export to make use of it would benefit more, and the batteries get proportionately cheaper as they get bigger.

    Also need to ponder how leccy prices will rise, as that will help, if cycle warranty is 10,000, or 15-20yrs that makes a big difference, also time of day tariffs, as that recent idea of 5p/kWh through the night is probably cheaper than the cost of a battery, so I'd half my battery size and only focus on balancing during the day, and covering evening demand.

    Genuinely don't know how to work this out. I can make a logical assumption for myself, based on generation, export and import and consumption patterns, but I'm not sure there is any kind of rule of thumb - we may all have to do some number crunching individually.

    Are we having fun yet?
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Interesting. My approach is (may be far too) simplistic in just comparing the cost per Kwh of the stored electricity compared to current prices. Anything else means estimating inflation of electricity - which now admittedly looks significant in our new over-nuclear, non-renewable era. The only other check is that all the units (ie. cycles) will be used within the warranty of the battery. Variable pricing obviously makes it more complicated. I take it from the above that you are assuming that a decent system will allow you to choose when to pay for cheap import depending on some price factor? (This does make things more complicated though? - I need to decide whether to buy cheap electricity to top up the battery or hope the following morning will be sunny enough to to do it for me for fee before I need it). Do you know whether such systems are available here as suppliers are not yet charging domestic customers in this way?
    Install 28th Nov 15, 3.3kW, (11x300LG), SolarEdge, SW. W Yorks.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 15th Mar 17, 12:38 PM
    • 5,679 Posts
    • 9,685 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Do you know whether such systems are available here as suppliers are not yet charging domestic customers in this way?
    Originally posted by Exiled Tyke
    I was thinking of this offering by Green Energy. It's not great as it has high standing charges, but it sets out an idea that may affect battery size.

    It offers:
    11pm - 6am 5p/kWh
    6am - 11pm weekends 11p/kWh
    6am - 7pm weekdays 11p/kWh
    7pm -11pm weekdays 25p/kWh

    At 5p/kWh at night there's no point using a battery as it may well cost more than 5p/kWh in costs (depreciation, wear and tear).

    So you let the battery help balance out demand and supply during the daytime, then crucially cover the 7pm to 11pm slot. That way you are only buying leccy at 5p at night, and some leccy (minus PV gen) during the day at 11p.

    According to my FF his system is programmable, so in the low generation months, he would tell it to full up on 5p leccy and not to discharge below XkWh's before 7pm - X being the amount of leccy he usually uses between 7pm and 11pm.

    Obviously this is all theoretical ponderings, but it would remove my need to store leccy for the 11pm-6am period, and perhaps lower the necessity for daytime cover a bit too, keeping all focus on that peak period. I might only need 2kWh of useable storage, but I would also need to check what the discharge rate of the batt is as demand could hit peaks such as cooking.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 16th Mar 17, 11:27 AM
    • 5,679 Posts
    • 9,685 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    The price appears to be for a 3.3Kwh battery (which can discharge at 2.5Kw) together with an inverter (does this make is less efficient than systems which link into the existing inverter Marty?). Unfortunately I cannot find anything else out about the battery itself - crucially expected cycles. Still it looks like a step in the right direction.
    Originally posted by Exiled Tyke
    Hello, hello. Here's an update.

    Had a great chat with a 'very nice man' from EDF. Loads of info, and not a hard sell, quite the opposite, they are well aware that we are only touching the edge of viability.

    First off, I can't have one. You have to have an import of 3,000kWhs or more. They don't believe it's viable at lower import levels, and mine's about 1,500kWhs after PV.

    I think this is a very responsible approach, reminds me of all the advice I got from them when discussing how a PV extension would work, and each e-mail ended with something along the lines of ' .....but we really wouldn't recommend you get a WNW install ...."

    Another minimum criteria is a 2.5kWp PV system due to the cost of the batts and reasonable returns.

    They suggest payback would be 15yrs+ (10 year battery warranty) so again they are being very careful with their advice.

    Next ..... AND VERY IMPORTANT ..... it's not a DC system as I assumed. The inverter is not a replacement for the PV inverter, it's the inverter to work with the batts. So it's totally separate to the PV, and is an AC system installed after the TGM.

    The price is £3,999 for the inverter, batts, energy management tools and install/VAT.

    This is a trial launch, they are being careful, and they do know it's a lot of money. They also said it was ok for me to post what we chatted about.

    So an information update for the thread, but looks like we still have a few more years to wait.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 16th Mar 17, 5:15 PM
    • 1,532 Posts
    • 2,004 Thanks
    silverwhistle
    Only yesterday I received a hand-delivered card through the door for solar storage from a company called MOL-4.

    As I buy in a fair bit less than Martyn I'm even less interested in storage at the moment (plus I already store some energy in an immersion tank..), but I'd be interested if anybody else has been contacted. They're based on the South coast (Fareham).
    • michaels
    • By michaels 17th Mar 17, 9:58 AM
    • 19,106 Posts
    • 87,655 Thanks
    michaels
    Hello, hello. Here's an update.

    Had a great chat with a 'very nice man' from EDF. Loads of info, and not a hard sell, quite the opposite, they are well aware that we are only touching the edge of viability.

    First off, I can't have one. You have to have an import of 3,000kWhs or more. They don't believe it's viable at lower import levels, and mine's about 1,500kWhs after PV.

    I think this is a very responsible approach, reminds me of all the advice I got from them when discussing how a PV extension would work, and each e-mail ended with something along the lines of ' .....but we really wouldn't recommend you get a WNW install ...."

    Another minimum criteria is a 2.5kWp PV system due to the cost of the batts and reasonable returns.

    They suggest payback would be 15yrs+ (10 year battery warranty) so again they are being very careful with their advice.

    Next ..... AND VERY IMPORTANT ..... it's not a DC system as I assumed. The inverter is not a replacement for the PV inverter, it's the inverter to work with the batts. So it's totally separate to the PV, and is an AC system installed after the TGM.

    The price is £3,999 for the inverter, batts, energy management tools and install/VAT.

    This is a trial launch, they are being careful, and they do know it's a lot of money. They also said it was ok for me to post what we chatted about.

    So an information update for the thread, but looks like we still have a few more years to wait.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    I know you always do the maths and I am always too lazy to so....what size battery at what price would make sense to you? With this system with the battery after the gen meter can you also use it to transfer peak usage to E7 in low PV months?
    Cool heads and compromise
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 17th Mar 17, 11:28 AM
    • 5,679 Posts
    • 9,685 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    I know you always do the maths and I am always too lazy to so....what size battery at what price would make sense to you? With this system with the battery after the gen meter can you also use it to transfer peak usage to E7 in low PV months?
    Originally posted by michaels
    Not being evasive, but I can't work out if there is a simple rule regarding battery size, or if we'll all need to do our own calculations. I seem to recall that you have high import, so whenever generation is high then you'd probably get better returns than myself, assuming you have enough export too.

    For myself, today (ignoring special tariffs or perhaps an EV in the future), I'd only need 4kWh useable, and I'd want to pay £1,500 or less, just to breakeven over 10yrs.

    If the warranty period goes up, then that will help with returns, and if the battery lasted twice as long, then that would reduce its cost (per kWh stored and import avoided) by half, allowing for almost double the spend, but for now I'd only consider the amount of kWh's I could extract from the battery within the warranty period.

    I hope this makes sense, but again I'm making it up as I go along, as I don't exactly know how to price a battery for domestic use.


    One last thought, and this is way out there and for the future, but I wonder if a group of us got together, if that would help?

    I'm thinking that an installer must be finding this hard work at the moment, but if they could order say 10 systems in one go, they'd get a discount, also they could allow a smaller mark up as it's not a one off, and even with geographical differences they'd still have a nice weeks work.

    Whether or not this is possible I've no idea, and it might be a logistical nightmare, as we'd probably have to settle on a specific battery, or at least one make, with a range of sizes. Something to ponder over the next 2yrs+ perhaps?
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • shavy65
    • By shavy65 17th Mar 17, 11:36 AM
    • 411 Posts
    • 1,253 Thanks
    shavy65
    a specific battery, or at least one make, with a range of sizes.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Well I`m none the wiser. I`d be more than happy to let you decide for us Mart
    3.975 kWp System, South facing, 21 degree pitch, 15 x Canadian Solar Elps, Samil Inverter, location NE Scotland (Fraserburgh) Bring on the Sun
    • Exiled Tyke
    • By Exiled Tyke 17th Mar 17, 2:54 PM
    • 219 Posts
    • 781 Thanks
    Exiled Tyke
    Not being evasive, but I can't work out if there is a simple rule regarding battery size, or if we'll all need to do our own calculations. I seem to recall that you have high import, so whenever generation is high then you'd probably get better returns than myself, assuming you have enough export too.

    For myself, today (ignoring special tariffs or perhaps an EV in the future), I'd only need 4kWh useable, and I'd want to pay £1,500 or less, just to breakeven over 10yrs.

    If the warranty period goes up, then that will help with returns, and if the battery lasted twice as long, then that would reduce its cost (per kWh stored and import avoided) by half, allowing for almost double the spend, but for now I'd only consider the amount of kWh's I could extract from the battery within the warranty period.

    I hope this makes sense, but again I'm making it up as I go along, as I don't exactly know how to price a battery for domestic use.


    One last thought, and this is way out there and for the future, but I wonder if a group of us got together, if that would help?

    I'm thinking that an installer must be finding this hard work at the moment, but if they could order say 10 systems in one go, they'd get a discount, also they could allow a smaller mark up as it's not a one off, and even with geographical differences they'd still have a nice weeks work.

    Whether or not this is possible I've no idea, and it might be a logistical nightmare, as we'd probably have to settle on a specific battery, or at least one make, with a range of sizes. Something to ponder over the next 2yrs+ perhaps?
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Well I'd be up for it although like you I'm not overly optimistic that it would be viable. I'd be wanting something which made best use of my SolarEdge inverter.
    Install 28th Nov 15, 3.3kW, (11x300LG), SolarEdge, SW. W Yorks.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 17th Mar 17, 4:03 PM
    • 5,679 Posts
    • 9,685 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Well I`m none the wiser. I`d be more than happy to let you decide for us Mart
    Originally posted by shavy65
    Oh cripes, time to run away and hide.

    I'm not sure about the irony factor of discussing just myself spending too much on a batt for fun on a MSE site, but ethics would also go out the window if I helped others do it too!!!!!!!!!


    Well I'd be up for it although like you I'm not overly optimistic that it would be viable. I'd be wanting something which made best use of my SolarEdge inverter.
    Originally posted by Exiled Tyke
    Yep, same again, won't be tomorrow that's for certain.

    I've read that batts have halved in price over the last 5 years, so could mean it could possibly half again in another five, or faster as the market explodes, or perhaps never if the curve starts to flatten out. Well that was inspiring.

    I'm just wondering if there's a massive mark up in the price from the installer, and that's not a criticism, as they may do next to no installs, so the whole thing is a royal pain in the butt at the moment. So my brain pondered its way to a multi-install deal ..... who knows?


    In the meantime, I've noted an interest with a few of the bigger names just to get my name on the books in case they or the DNO decide on some sort of trial, you never know.


    Back to battery sizes, if anyone wants to have a ponder with me, then I'm happy to play with the numbers and present a 'reasoned' argument, but this could be the blind leading the blind.

    Starting requirements would be estimated import, export and generation for each month, or maybe just a rough guess for the Nov-Jan, Feb-Apr/Aug-Oct & May-Jul quarters. From there we can probably guesstimate (make up) something.

    Perhaps a new section for the FAQs, though I suspect at the moment it would just be a referral to this thread and the line "I dunno, why you asking me?"
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • rugbyleaguesmate
    • By rugbyleaguesmate 19th Mar 17, 9:22 AM
    • 241 Posts
    • 1,350 Thanks
    rugbyleaguesmate
    Thanks for this Mart, still a newbie here with my panels, still producing a lot more than I use and still thinking what I could do with the excess........

    Random thoughts radiators, electric car, air conditioning/heater, water (although I have no tank and a combi)

    Still think battery when the price is viable.

    Question would you think a battery becomes more viable with a bigger system? My logic being you can produce and store more even on low kw days?

    What I'm thinking is I probably consume more than you and may produce more, what price break would make a battery viable? You have guessed £1500 I'm wondering if I would be at a slightly higher number for me?
    6.72kw Pv Ja Solar 280w * 24 panels, Solar Edge inverter, South facing no shading.
    South Lake District, delightful view of Morecambe Bay. Not Saving up for a battery too expensive

    July Solar target 769kw
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 19th Mar 17, 12:58 PM
    • 5,679 Posts
    • 9,685 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    What I'm thinking is I probably consume more than you and may produce more, what price break would make a battery viable? You have guessed £1500 I'm wondering if I would be at a slightly higher number for me?
    Originally posted by rugbyleaguesmate
    Hiya. Assuming you generate more, use more, and (safe bet) produce more in the winter when my E/W system suffers most of its loss v's south facing - then I'd also guess that you'd get greater benefits from a larger system than I.

    For arguments sake, let's double your potential v's mine, I think this is a reasonable bet:
    Summer - I import 2.5kWh's per day on average, but have tons of export. I assume you also have no shortage of export, and possibly import 5kWh, so a 4kWh battery would probably suffice.

    Winter - I export 1-2.5kWh per day on average. I assume you'll be closer to double that, so again 4kWh batt should do.

    Spring/Autumn - I import 4-5kWh, with enough export to cover that. I assume your generation is higher, and your consumption, but this is the crucial guess, I also assume your import is higher than mine, but you have enough export to cover it, say 8-10kWh per day? That would suggest to me a batt of about 7-10kWh.

    So your breakeven (not necessarily profitable, viable (after lost interest) or sensible) may be £3k over 10yrs. But economies of scale are on your side.

    The Tesla Powerwall II costs £6.3k installed for about 13.5kWh. Proportionately, that's not far off for you (in this theoretical example). And it's reasonable to think that prices will fall soon to a point where a half sized batt, at half that price may be available.

    For myself, whilst 4kWh/£1.5k is also similar to the PWII price, it's also sensible to assume that it will take longer for a product to match my specs as there will be some fixed costs such as the case, shipping, install, management software/hardware.

    Actually, if I've got these numbers right, then for those that could make use of a larger batt, we are closer than I'd thought. But bear in mind my £1,500 figure includes about £300 in savings from shifting to a NSC tariff, which may not work out for higher users if their import still remains large even after the battery.

    If this seems confusing, or you think I've got a solid grip on it, then please believe me, I don't. I'm really just thinking out loud.

    One other consideration relates to the ASHP thread - lots of if's here so hold on ...... IF it makes sense to use a heat pump instead of GCH, and IF I have enough export available to justify a bigger battery, and IF a heat pump warming one room, but flowing into the rest of the house can match a short GCH burn - then it might make sense to opt for that via a battery coming on a few hours earlier in the morning during those months when solar gain is adequate later on, but the house is a tad too chilly in the morning to switch the heating off.

    I can't work this out, but for me it may only work in April and Sept when heating might not be needed some years, so a waste of battery capacity?
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 19th Mar 17, 1:05 PM
    • 5,679 Posts
    • 9,685 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Question would you think a battery becomes more viable with a bigger system? My logic being you can produce and store more even on low kw days?
    Originally posted by rugbyleaguesmate
    Just realised I may have interpreted your question wrong. If you were sticking with the same size battery as me, say 4kWh (useable), which should provide about 5kWh across the day (including mini-cycles), then it's safe to assume you would use its full potential more than I.

    I'm estimating I could get 900kWh's out of one per year, but you might get 5kWh's per day most days, and even if we aim low for winter with 3kWh's that would give an annual 'import-avoidance' of ((91 x 3) + (274 x 5)) = 1,643kWhs, which at 12p/kWh = £200pa or £2k over 10yrs.
    Just 'call me Mart'. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 19th Mar 17, 2:06 PM
    • 3,659 Posts
    • 4,501 Thanks
    zeupater
    .... Question would you think a battery becomes more viable with a bigger system? My logic being you can produce and store more even on low kw days? ...
    Originally posted by rugbyleaguesmate
    Hi

    The issue as I see it is that generation, consumption and storage are all components of the same solution ... the problem is that you need to self-justify investment according to your own requirements.

    For example, you mention the heat-pump .... the way I see it is that the heat-pump can effectively be run 24x7 when the ExcessGeneration+AvailableStorage+HeatDemand equation is satisfied ... this way you better justify the investment in all three technologies. The issue at the moment is that although any potential return on investment for the solar pv or heat-pump can undoubtedly be improved through the addition of battery storage, the current capital cost of that storage totally destroys the overall investment equation.

    We've gone down the (small) heat-pump route in the knowledge that we can deliver additional warmth comfort through supplementing existing heat sources (GCH & Biomass) as generation & heat requirements dictate .... this obviously places us in a position where we would be able to better justify storage when fully installed prices become more favourable, however that still looks to be well below £150/kWh of usable storage for a unit with a decent cycle life ...

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • ASavvyBuyer
    • By ASavvyBuyer 19th Mar 17, 8:37 PM
    • 462 Posts
    • 1,185 Thanks
    ASavvyBuyer
    Not sure if this has already been posted before, but found this on the RECC website:

    https://www.recc.org.uk/pdf/guidance-on-battery-storage.pdf

    Could be useful for anyone considering buying a battery system and what info should be provided.
    Last edited by ASavvyBuyer; 20-03-2017 at 5:01 PM. Reason: typo in link
    Rhondda Cynon Taf, 4kWp, W roof, 30° pitch, 16 x 8.33 Eternity 250w E+10 panels, Solar Edge SE4000-16A Inverter + P300 Optimisers & REUK Diverter
    + Toshiba RAS-10G2KVP-E Ultra High Efficiency Air Conditioner/Heat Pump
    • Exiled Tyke
    • By Exiled Tyke 20th Mar 17, 4:44 PM
    • 219 Posts
    • 781 Thanks
    Exiled Tyke
    Not sure if this has already been posted before, but found this on the RECC website:

    https://www.recc.org.uk/pdf/guidance-on-battery-storage.pdf

    Could be useful for anyone considering buying a battery system and what info should be provided.
    Originally posted by ASavvyBuyer

    Your link didn't work for me. This did though.

    https://www.recc.org.uk/pdf/guidance-on-supplementary-solar-pv-equipment.pdf

    Also, and interestingly the paper suggests that we will be moving from deemed to actual export with smart meters. This is the first I've heard of this. Every other time smart meters have been mentioned I've always heard that same story, which is that they are only being used to measure import and so are of no benefit to us for export. If export metering goes ahead then for battery storage to pay for itself then costs will need to come down to about a quarter of what they are today, unless of course we are all forced into demand led pricing for import in which case they may well become viable at a higher price.
    Install 28th Nov 15, 3.3kW, (11x300LG), SolarEdge, SW. W Yorks.
    • ASavvyBuyer
    • By ASavvyBuyer 20th Mar 17, 5:05 PM
    • 462 Posts
    • 1,185 Thanks
    ASavvyBuyer
    Your link didn't work for me.
    Originally posted by Exiled Tyke
    Sorry, somehow there was a missing ":" in the actual link, even though it was showing.

    It should be:
    https://www.recc.org.uk/pdf/guidance-on-battery-storage.pdf
    Rhondda Cynon Taf, 4kWp, W roof, 30° pitch, 16 x 8.33 Eternity 250w E+10 panels, Solar Edge SE4000-16A Inverter + P300 Optimisers & REUK Diverter
    + Toshiba RAS-10G2KVP-E Ultra High Efficiency Air Conditioner/Heat Pump
    • ASavvyBuyer
    • By ASavvyBuyer 20th Mar 17, 5:37 PM
    • 462 Posts
    • 1,185 Thanks
    ASavvyBuyer
    This may be a daft question and not even sure if this would work, but has anyone tried using a UPS (Uninteruptable Power Supply) normally used for PC equipment, as "Domestic Battery Storage" for alternative relatively low power equipment?

    For example; charging it up during the day, (from solar power) and then using it to power a LED TV or LED lighting during the evening, with power switched off at the socket.

    The payback time may make it not worth it, but there are some smaller UPS's available for under £100 which may store enough power.
    Rhondda Cynon Taf, 4kWp, W roof, 30° pitch, 16 x 8.33 Eternity 250w E+10 panels, Solar Edge SE4000-16A Inverter + P300 Optimisers & REUK Diverter
    + Toshiba RAS-10G2KVP-E Ultra High Efficiency Air Conditioner/Heat Pump
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

4,073Posts Today

9,738Users online

Martin's Twitter