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  • FIRST POST
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 23rd Nov 16, 9:05 AM
    • 5,100Posts
    • 6,340Thanks
    beamerguy
    Free Parking at ASDA Fleetwood until ParkingEye get their act together
    • #1
    • 23rd Nov 16, 9:05 AM
    Free Parking at ASDA Fleetwood until ParkingEye get their act together 23rd Nov 16 at 9:05 AM
    Free Parking at ASDA Fleetwood until ParkingEye get their act together

    Parking signs at ASDA Fleetwood have all been fitted with nice jackets to keep them cosy for the winter

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/parking-signs-get-winter-jacket-at-asda.html

    Asda Fleetwood should carefully monitor if their sales increase whilst this is going on.

    Even if YOU have not got a ticket from PE, everyone should ask their council
    about the PE signs in their local Asda

    Do this by remembering that ParkingEye are very vindictive and love the courts giving you a CCJ
    Last edited by beamerguy; 23-11-2016 at 9:12 AM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
Page 4
    • WindleTheWise
    • By WindleTheWise 1st Feb 17, 9:06 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    WindleTheWise
    Hi I have issued requests under DPA for 2 sites in Hartlepool . ASDA (FarkingParking Eye) and Anchor retail park ( managed by the infamous UKCPS ltd.).
    Planning officer is now looking into this 'complaint' hopefuly will cost the scammers a few pennies.
    • keepitlegal
    • By keepitlegal 17th Feb 17, 12:32 PM
    • 196 Posts
    • 171 Thanks
    keepitlegal
    Urgently need assistance on this.
    I've been informed by the planning dept that Asda will be submitting a advertising application for the signs early next week, when the application is received the planning officer is going to contact me to submit my comments.
    Aithough Asda are aware that the signs are illegal they have made no attempt to either remove or cover up the signs, I will bring this to the attention of the council when I make my comments, obviously this will not be enough, is there anything else I can use to have the advertising application refused?
    Thanks
    Keepitlegal
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 17th Feb 17, 12:38 PM
    • 9,873 Posts
    • 8,853 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    Do you actually have any solid grounds to object?

    You can try to make it a condition that the cancel any parking charges prior to gaining planning consent, but you might need a couple of councillors' backing for that (if it is in the powers of the planners that is)
    • keepitlegal
    • By keepitlegal 17th Feb 17, 1:00 PM
    • 196 Posts
    • 171 Thanks
    keepitlegal
    Do you actually have any solid grounds to object?

    You can try to make it a condition that the cancel any parking charges prior to gaining planning consent, but you might need a couple of councillors' backing for that (if it is in the powers of the planners that is)
    Originally posted by Guys Dad
    That's the problem, other than Asda knowingly flouting the law I have nothing. TBH I think the council are more than happy to rubber stamp the application, they have been very obstructive since my initial complaint, I also doubt they have the authority or want any involvement with any parking charges that have been administered before advertising consent is granted.
    Anything at all I can use to create problems for Asda/Parking Eye will give me a great deal of pleasure.
    Thanks
    Keepitlegal
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 17th Feb 17, 1:07 PM
    • 2,047 Posts
    • 2,964 Thanks
    fisherjim
    I suspect big business contributing thousands in business rates will trump any fair play, and your options are probably limited to highlighting this in the media.
    To quote the words of the great Count Arthur Strong "You Couldn't make it up"
    • keepitlegal
    • By keepitlegal 17th Feb 17, 1:37 PM
    • 196 Posts
    • 171 Thanks
    keepitlegal
    I suspect big business contributing thousands in business rates will trump any fair play, and your options are probably limited to highlighting this in the media.
    Originally posted by fisherjim
    That is going to happen, letter and photos to our local papers.
    • mowkid
    • By mowkid 20th Feb 17, 4:04 PM
    • 74 Posts
    • 116 Thanks
    mowkid
    I have been helping a lady on another thread to fight a 5 year old Excel claim. During my efforts I've become more interested in helping to rid us of these parasites.
    I checked on my local authority web site planning section for car park planning applications and could find none. Having done that I have my local councill9or on the job trying to get an answer from the planning dept as to why they have allowed carparks with signs and ANPR to get set up without planning.
    I'm expecting to be fobbed off with a "no need " so Iwould like to know exactly where it says in the town and CFountry Planning Act that car park signs are adverts.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 20th Feb 17, 6:31 PM
    • 12,701 Posts
    • 19,540 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Signage needs 'Advertising Consent'. Not to have it is a criminal offence, but no LA that has been challenged has prosecuted, despite being its responsibility. Of particular note in this context is Liverpool LA in relation to Liverpool John Lennon Airport. It has been ducking and diving for a couple of years on this, despite sterling work from PePiPoo poster 'hexaflexagon'.

    ANPR cameras (as I understand it) require 'Planning Permission' if new poles to house them are erected, but not if tacked on to an existing building. Less sure of my grounds in this respect, others might comment later.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Timothea
    • By Timothea 20th Feb 17, 11:11 PM
    • 118 Posts
    • 233 Thanks
    Timothea
    The relevant legislation is The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007, which refers to the Town and Country Planning Act 1990. Private parking signage is not listed under any exemption in the 2007 Regulations, so it requires advertising consent.

    Local Authorities rarely, if ever, prosecute offenders over the failure to obtain advertising consent, but they can use the threat of prosecution to force offenders to comply. However, as it is a crime, advertising consent cannot be granted retrospectively.

    There is a legal doctrine, known as ex turpi causa non oritur actio, that means a claimant will be unable to pursue a legal remedy if it arises in connection with his own illegal act. Some would argue that offering a contract based on illegal signage clearly makes the contract unenforceable. As far as I am aware, this has not been tested in court in relation to parking on private land. This legal doctrine is very old and rarely used, so District Judges are likely to dismiss such an argument out of hand, because it's too difficult.

    Advertising consent, where it is needed, can be 'express' or 'deemed'. Express consent is when an application is made to and granted by the Local Authority. Deemed consent is automatically granted to advertisements that:
    1. are in relation to the land or building on which they are displayed;
    2. do not exceed 0.3 square metres in area;
    3. are not located higher than 4.6 metres above ground level; and
    4. are not illuminated.
    Last edited by Timothea; 21-02-2017 at 12:34 AM.
    • RobinofLoxley
    • By RobinofLoxley 20th Feb 17, 11:44 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    RobinofLoxley
    The relevant legislation is The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007, which refers to the Town and Country Planning Act 1990.

    Local Authorities rarely, if ever, prosecute offenders over the failure to obtain advertising consent, but they use the threat of prosecution to force offenders to comply. However, as it is a crime, advertising consent cannot be granted retrospectively.

    There is a legal doctrine, known as ex turpi causa non oritur actio, that means a claimant will be unable to pursue a legal remedy if it arises in connection with his own illegal act. Some would argue that offering a contract based on illegal signage clearly makes the contract unenforceable. As far as I am aware, this has not been tested in court in relation to parking on private land. This legal doctrine is very old and rarely used, so District Judges are likely to dismiss such an argument out of hand, because it's too difficult.

    Advertising consent, where it is needed, can be 'express' or 'deemed'. Express consent is when an application is made to and granted by the Local Authority. Deemed consent is automatically granted to advertisements that:
    1. are in relation to the land or building on which they are displayed;
    2. do not exceed 0.3 square metres in area;
    3. are not located higher than 4.6 metres above ground level; and
    4. are not illuminated.
    Originally posted by Timothea
    The Prankster reported on a court case last year involving Parking Eye where the defendant had as a central point in their defence the fact that PE didn't have advertising consent for their signs and therefore argued that they couldn't offer a contract based on unlawful signage.
    PE withdrew their claim before court day so this particular argument wasn't put to the test.
    As you say I'm not aware of it being properly judged on as yet, unless anyone knows any different.

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/parkingeye-discontinue-two-cases.html

    There is also another aspect of the 'advertising consent' for signs issue that comes into play.
    In the Beavis case that PPC's are so fond of reminding us of, the Supreme Court judges commented on the importance of adhering to the BPA's Code of Practice.

    "And, while the Code of Practice is not a contractual document, it is in practice binding on the operator since its existence and observance is a condition of his ability to obtain details of the registered keeper from the DVLA. In assessing the fairness of a term, it cannot be right to ignore the regulatory framework which determines how and in what circumstances it may be enforced."

    Paragraph 2.4 of the BPA's Code of practice states
    “All AOS members must be aware of their legal obligations and implement the relevant legislation and guidance when operating their businesses.”

    This surely lends weight to the argument that by not implementing the relevant legislation re signage that require advertising consent, the PPC is not operating correctly and fairly and this should be recognised by any judge.
    Last edited by RobinofLoxley; 21-02-2017 at 12:35 AM.
    • mowkid
    • By mowkid 26th Feb 17, 2:46 PM
    • 74 Posts
    • 116 Thanks
    mowkid
    Thanks for the info. Hopefully I can use it as a clincher with my LA if necessary
    • keepitlegal
    • By keepitlegal 16th Mar 17, 6:07 PM
    • 196 Posts
    • 171 Thanks
    keepitlegal
    I have just discovered that a 'retrospective' application has been made for advertising consent, this has been asked for by........the planning enforcement officer at the council, the advertising period to run from 23/02/2017 until 23/02/2022.
    Timothea's post above says as it is illegal retrospective permission cannot be given, I intend to point this out to the Planning Department, I also will ask why they have told Asda to apply for retrospective permission given it is illegal. Obviously I want to get this right, is there anything else I should mention?
    The application is dated 23/02/2017.
    Nothing to do with the application but something worth mentioning is, the application states the signs are not illuminated, the store is open 24/7, so can PE say a contract has been agreed if the 'parking offence' is during the hours of darkness.
    Thanks
    Keepitlegal
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Mar 17, 12:54 AM
    • 45,879 Posts
    • 58,885 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Nothing to do with the application but something worth mentioning is, the application states the signs are not illuminated, the store is open 24/7, so can PE say a contract has been agreed if the 'parking offence' is during the hours of darkness.
    They can try. But a defendant/appellant can show otherwise, with photos in the dark.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 17th Mar 17, 7:32 AM
    • 2,757 Posts
    • 2,911 Thanks
    Johno100
    Nothing to do with the application but something worth mentioning is, the application states the signs are not illuminated, the store is open 24/7, so can PE say a contract has been agreed if the 'parking offence' is during the hours of darkness.
    Originally posted by keepitlegal
    Surely that depends on how well the car park is lit and the location of the signs. If the signs are attached to or adjacent to the huge lighting towers they have in my local ASDA, then despite the signs themselves being unlit they'd be perfectly readable.
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