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  • FIRST POST
    • Danny30
    • By Danny30 15th Nov 16, 3:47 PM
    • 127Posts
    • 39Thanks
    Danny30
    Parking Ticket outside Sainsbur's (Horizon)
    • #1
    • 15th Nov 16, 3:47 PM
    Parking Ticket outside Sainsbur's (Horizon) 15th Nov 16 at 3:47 PM
    Hi All,

    I got an unexpected parking ticket outside Sainsbury's today for overstaying. It has been a while since I had a private parking invoice so I was just wondering if the same letters as 2 years ago would apply i.e actual loss of earnings.

    Below are 2 letters that I have used before.. 1 to Horizon and one to Popla. Do you think that these would still be okay?



    To Horizon
    Date of Contravention:
    Date of issue:
    Vehicle Reg:
    Ref No:


    The keeper wishes to challenge your invoice on the basis that you do not have the authority of the landowner to levy these charges. The keeper requires you to supply a copy of the relevant sections of the contract that you are working under in order for the keeper to check

    (a) the contract is, in fact, with the landowner whose details have been supplied to me by the council and

    (b) in order for the keeper to check the limit of your authority to levy charges as some landowner contracts do not, in fact, grant that authority.

    (c) In addition, after thoroughly checking your signage the keeper believes you are not compliant with the BPA Code of Practice.

    If you reject this challenge please provide within 35 days a popla verification code per the BPA Code of Practice, if no code is supplied with any rejection you supply its deemed that you have accepted this challenge.
    The keeper reserves the right, after further research, to add other points that may emerge to any POPLA Appeal.


    TO Popla


    Name:
    Address:
    Date

    Without prejudice, except as to costs

    Parking Charge Notice Letter 250929/836799
    On 16/07/2013 I was the registered keeper of a VW Bora registration number -------------.

    I would like to appeal your parking charge as I feel that this charge is not valid due to the circumstances listed below, I should be grateful if you would first answer all the questions and deal with all the issues I have set out below. Once you have done so, I will be able to make an informed decision on how I deal with the matter.

    Please note that although I dispute the whole basis of the parking charge, my main concern is its disproportionate and punitive level.

    1. No contract

    There was no contract between the driver and [insert name of parking company]. The driver did not see any contractual information on any signs when entering the car park and therefore at that time had no idea that any contract or restrictions applied. As a consequence the requirements for forming a contract such as a meeting of minds, agreement, and certainty of terms were not satisfied.

    2. Trespass

    If there was no contract, then at most the driver was guilty of a civil trespass (though this is neither admitted nor denied). If this were the case, the driver may be liable to damages. Given that no ‘damage’ was done to the car park and that the car park was not completely full when the driver parked or when the driver left, there was in fact no loss at all.

    3. Punitive/unfair/unreasonable charge

    Even if there was a contract (which is denied), the following matters are relevant:

    3(a). Punitive

    The parking charge you are imposing is punitive and therefore void (i.e. unenforceable). The £[insert amount] parking charge is arbitrary and disproportionate to any alleged breach of contract or trespass. This would also apply to any mention of any costs incurred through debt recovery unless it followed a court order.


    3(b). Unfair

    The £[insert amount] parking charge you are imposing is an unfair term (and therefore not binding) under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. In particular, Schedule 2 of those Regulations which gives an indicative (and non-exhaustive) list of terms which may be regarded as unfair and includes at Schedule 2(1)(e):

    ‘Terms which have the object or effect of requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.’

    Furthermore, Regulation 5(1) says:

    ‘A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer’

    And 5(2), which states:

    ‘A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term.’

    3(c). Unreasonable

    The £[insert amount] parking charge you are imposing is an unreasonable indemnity clause under section 4(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, which says:

    ‘A person cannot by reference to any contract term be made to indemnify another person (whether a party to the contract or not) in respect of liability that may be incurred by the other for negligence or breach of contract, except in so far as the contract term satisfies the requirement of reasonableness.’

    Further information I require you to provide and take notice of:

    Please note specifically that this letter is not an appeal however, it is a challenge to the issue of the Notice to Driver/Keeper (delete as appropriate) as set out in the BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22. I should be grateful for answers to all questions raised. In this respect I remind you of the obligations set out in the current Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

    4(a). Cause of action.

    Please make this clear. If it is your claim that the driver entered into a contract, please send me a complete version of the terms and conditions of that contract to which you say the driver agreed to.

    4(b). Further to the above please explain fully on which of the following grounds your claim is based:

    (i) Damages for trespass
    (ii) Damages for breach of contract
    (iii) A contractual sum
    5. Your loss.

    If it is your case that that a trespass was committed or that a contract was breached such that your claim is one for damages, please give me a full breakdown of the actual loss you say was suffered by your business or the landowner/landholder.

    6. Appeals procedure.

    I require a copy of any appeal procedure you follow, along with details of what factors you take into account; who is the judge or arbitrator and whether they are independent; whether you require oral or written submissions; whether it is governed by the Arbitration Act 1996 and any other relevant factors. In addition, please give me disclosure of any arguments you would put forward on this matter in any subsequent appeal process so that either the registered keeper or the driver might consider his or her response to any existing or new issues which are raised.

    7. Your status.

    Your Notice to Driver/Keeper (delete as appropriate) simply mentions [Insert name of parking company if that is who is named on the NTD/NTK]. Please tell me who is the actual creditor making this £[insert amount] parking charge demand. I need to know exactly who is making the claim and in what capacity.

    8. Ownership of premises.

    Please tell me who owns the car park as I wish to send them a copy of this letter.
    9. Contract to operate.

    Please provide me with a copy of the contract between your company and the landowner/landholder.
    10. Involvement of landowner/landholder.

    Please explain any involvement, if at all, of the landowner/landholder with the management of parking at this site and specifically with regard to the issue and enforcement of your Notices to Driver/Keeper. (delete as appropriate)
    11(a). Photographs- handling.

    Your notice refers to ‘photographic evidence’. Please send me a copy of your procedures for handling and processing that evidence and the relevant audit trail. Furthermore, under section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 please send me a copy of all such photographs along with a copy of all other data you hold relating to me. As this would be required to be disclosed in any event as part of your evidence bundle in the small claims process, I do not expect to pay for the release of my personal data which you hold.
    11(b). Photographs – evidence.

    The copies of the photographs that you have provided along with the Parking Charge Notice merely show my vehicle entering and leaving the car park but do not show the actual alleged parking contravention on which your Parking Charge Notice has been issued. Please therefore provide me with copies of all photographs that evidence the actual alleged parking contravention itself

    12. Signage.

    If it is your case that a contract has been breached or that a contractual sum is now due, please send me photographs of the signs that you display and upon which you seek to evidence that a lawful and legally enforceable contract was been entered into. Please ensure that the photographs show the terms and conditions in a clear and legible manner. Please provide me with a diagram showing the locations and layout of those signs at the car park. Also provide evidence that the wording is in plain and intelligible language and in sufficiently large print as to be legible to a driver at the car park’s entry point.
    13. Legal representation.
    Please provide me with the name and address of your solicitors, if any, in order that I may copy them into this correspondence.

    14. To avoid doubt, please do not do any of the following:
    (i) Send any further correspondence or documents to me or try to communicate with me in any way except to address in writing the specific points I have raised in this letter.
    (ii) Send me any document purporting to be from the county court unless it is a valid claim form duly issued.
    (iii) Write to me threatening to send bailiffs to my address without first issuing a court claim form and obtaining judgment.
    (iv) Send me any standard letters from your company or debt collectors.
    15. If you wish to make a claim you may do so online. My address for service is set out at the top of this letter. If you do decide to issue proceedings, please note that:
    (i) I reserve the right to add further arguments to the defence
    (ii) I or my representative will be happy to attend any court mediation that might be offered.
    16. I look forward to receiving your acknowledgement within 14 days and a comprehensive reply within 35 days (in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22.8). I will then be able to make an informed decision as to how I shall respond to your Notice to Driver/Keeper (delete as appropriate).
    17. If you reject this challenge or fail to address the issues that have been raised then, in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice 22.12, please ensure that you enclose all the required information (including the necessary ‘POPLA code’) so that I may immediately refer the matter for their decision.
    18. If you fail to follow any of the procedures outlined in the BPA AOS Code of Practice or your legal requirements under the Protection of Freedoms Act, or the requirements of the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct then I will make a formal complaint to the DVLA Data Sharing Policy Group, D16.
    Please Note: Unless you have specifically requested it and received my express permission, you do not have my authority to disclose or refer this letter or any other communication from me to any other person or organisation
    Last edited by Danny30; 15-11-2016 at 3:51 PM.
Page 2
    • Danny30
    • By Danny30 6th Feb 17, 9:29 PM
    • 127 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    Danny30
    you wait

    you could check ONLINE and see if the pcn is still valid or not (without paying it)
    Originally posted by Redx
    Thanks Redx. I will checkk online and wait if it is still valid.
    • Danny30
    • By Danny30 20th Apr 17, 4:56 PM
    • 127 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    Danny30
    Hi guys, late update but the ticket was cancelled by Horizon without even having to go to popla. Thanks for all your help.

    By the way are the template letters on the Newbies Stick thread all up to date? My brother got a ticket from parking eye in a morrissons car park. I copied the BPA template letter on the first page (below).

    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No. ....................

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 26th Apr 17, 11:50 PM
    • 46,966 Posts
    • 60,335 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    By the way are the template letters on the Newbies Stick thread all up to date? My brother got a ticket from parking eye in a morrissons car park
    Yes, they are up to date. I last edited the NEWBIES thread this month.

    But do not rush into POPLA as Morrisons ones are easy to get cancelled before POPLA:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72454823&highlight=donotreply#pos t72454823

    Always works, even without a receipt (but best from a genuine customer who can prove patronage). In years of using that email address for people I have helped, I've never seen Morrisons NOT cancel one.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

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