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  • FIRST POST
    • Dot2101
    • By Dot2101 2nd Nov 16, 10:46 PM
    • 60Posts
    • 67Thanks
    Dot2101
    ES Enforcement County Court Claim
    • #1
    • 2nd Nov 16, 10:46 PM
    ES Enforcement County Court Claim 2nd Nov 16 at 10:46 PM
    Hi there
    ES Enforcement sent a parking charge notice through in July. The incident occured at the Charleston Road retail site in Halifax (outside Next)
    The photo shows the car on double yellows (the car was waiting my the front door for a passenger to load the car up). The letter sites "not parked correctly within the markings of a bay of space" as the reason for sending the letter.

    Decided to appeal to ES, had no reply. Then received letter before claim from Gladstones, again appealed this within the 14 day requirement outlined by Gladstones, and yet again no reply. Then received County Court papers on the 14th October, contacted Gladstones who claim they did not receive my letter!

    Anyhow I am currently writing my first draft of my defense thanks to other posts on here and some help from the Parking Prankster, all of which has been so useful so I can not thank you enough.

    Here is my first draft so far, i would appreciate it if someone could read through and see if i need to point anything else out.

    I also have the picture of the photo they have taken and been back to the site (parked in an appropiately marked bay ) to take some pictures of the signs. Please could someone let me know how to attach these and I will do if this will help you understand the case better.

    Thank you for your help in advance, this board has already been a great help.

    Statement of Defence

    I am (inserting my name), acting on behalf of (insetr name), the defendant in this matter and deny liability for the entirety of the claim for the following
    reasons:

    (1).
    It is admitted that the Defendant was the authorised registered keeper of the vehicle in question at the
    time of the alleged incident.

    (2).
    The identity of the driver of the vehicle on the date in question has not been ascertained.
    a) The Claimant did not identify the driver
    b) The Defendant has no liability, as they are the Keeper of the vehicle and the Claimant must rely upon the strict provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 in order to hold the defendant responsible for the driver’s alleged breach.

    (3)
    The claimant has not provided enough details in the particulars of claim to file a full defence.
    In particular, the full details of the contract which it is alleged was broken have not been provided.
    a) The Claimant has disclosed no cause of action to give rise to any debt.
    b) The Claimant has stated that a parking charge was incurred.
    c) The Claimant has given no indication of the nature of the alleged charge in the Particulars of Claim.
    The Claimant has therefore disclosed no cause of action.
    d) The Particulars of Claim contains no details and fails to establish a cause of action which would enable the Defendant to prepare a specific defense.
    It just states “parking charges” which does not give any indication of on what basis the claim is brought.
    There is no information regarding why the charge arose, what the original charge was, what the alleged contract was nor anything which could be considered a fair exchange of information.
    The Particulars of Claim are incompetent in disclosing no cause of action.
    e) On the 20th September 2016 another relevant poorly pleaded private parking charge claim by
    Gladstones was struck out by District Judge Cross of St Albans County Court without a hearing
    due to their ‘roboclaim’ particulars being incoherent, failing to comply with CPR. 16.4 and
    ‘providing no facts that could give rise to any apparent claim in law’
    f) On the 19th August 2016 DJ Anson sitting at Preston County Court ruled that the very similar
    parking charge particulars of claim were deficient and failing to meet CPR 16.4 and PD 16
    paragraphs 7.3 - 7.5. He ordered the Claimant in that case to file new particulars which they failed
    to do, and the court confirmed the claim will now be struck out.

    (4)
    The defendant wrote to the claimant on 10/08/2016, upon the original postal PCN being received asking for:
    i) Full particulars of the parking charges
    ii) Who the party was that contracted with ES Parking.
    Iii) The full legal identity of the landowner
    iv) A full copy of the contract with the landholder that demonstrated that ES Parking had their authority.
    v) If the charges were based on damages for breach of contract and if so to provide justification of
    this sum
    vi) If the charge was based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking and If so to
    provide a valid VAT invoice for this 'service'.
    vii) To provide a copy of the signs that ES Parking can evidence were on site and which contended
    formed a contract with the driver on that occasion, as well as all photographs taken of the
    vehicle in question.
    viii) A recording of the supposed time in which the vehicle in question is “parked” not correctly, in order to comply with the IPC Code of Practice part C 3.1 (b)

    The claimant did not respond.
    Furthermore, a response letter was sent to Claimants Solicitors, Gladstones, upon receiving a letter before claim on 05/10/2016. The defendant duly followed instructions to respond to the letter before claim within 14 days. Gladstones did not respond and issued Court Claims.
    The Defendant contacted Gladstones who claimed to have not received the letter sent by the Defendant. The Defendant emailed said letter to Gladstones on the 24/10/2016, thus far has not received a response.

    Withholding any relevant photos of the car and the signage terms (which are deemed too far away meaning no contract can be concluded), despite being asked for by the Defendant at the outset, is against the SRA code as well as contrary to the ‘overriding objective’ in the pre action protocol.
    As Gladstones are a firm of solicitors whose Directors also run the IPC Trade Body and deal with private parking issues every single day of the week there can be no excuse for these omissions.

    The Defendant asks that the court orders Further and Better Particulars of Claim and asks
    leave to amend the Defence.

    (5) The Defendant considers where the road traffic act may be applied, which in many areas applies to private land so in this case the use of double yellow lines would have an accepted meaning that the driver can stop for unloading or loading, or stopping to allow a passenger to alight. As ES Enforcement have so far failed to provide any duration of the alleged offence, the Defendant questions that this photograph could have technically been taken seconds after stopping to load and therefore the incident time is not relevant for this case.

    (6).
    ES Parking Enforcements are not the lawful occupier of the land. I have the reasonable belief that they do not have the authority to issue charges on this land in their own name and that they have no rights to bring this case.
    a) The Claimant is not the landowner and is merely an agent acting on behalf of the landowner and has failed to demonstrate their legal standing to form a contract.
    b) The claimant is not the landowner and suffers no loss whatsoever as a result of a vehicle parking at the location in question
    c) The Claimant is put to proof that it has sufficient interest in the land or that there are specific terms in its contract to bring an action on its own behalf. As a third party agent, the Claimant may not pursue any charge. I have the reasonable belief that they do not have the authority to issue charges on this land in their own name and that they have no right to bring action regarding this claim.

    (7)
    a) The Claimant has at no time provided an explanation how the sum has been calculated, the conduct
    that gave rise to it or how the amount has climbed from £100 to £150. This appears to be an added cost with no apparently no qualification and an attempt at double recovery, which the POFA Schedule 4 specifically disallows.
    b) The Protection of Freedom Act Para 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper.

    (8)
    The signage was inadequate to form a contract with the motorist
    a) The signage on this site is inadequate to form a contract. It is barely legible, making it difficult to read.
    b) The sign fails because it must state what the ANPR data will be used for. This is an ICO breach and
    contrary to the Code of Practice.
    c) In the absence of ‘adequate notice’ of the terms and the charge (which must be in large prominent letters such as the brief, clear and multiple signs in the Beavis case) this fails to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of the POFA.

    (9)
    The driver did not enter into any 'agreement on the charge', no consideration flowed between the
    parties and no contract was established.

    10) The defendant notes that there are no parking cameras in the location in question, therefore the photo supplied was taken manually, close to the vehicle. This amounts to predatory tactic which does not comply with the IPC Code of Practice Part B 14.1 “You must not use predatory or misleading tactics to lure drivers into incurring parking charges.”

    (10)
    (a) The Claimant has sent threatening and misleading demands which stated that further debt recovery action would be taken to recover what is owed by passing the debt to a ‘local’ recovery agent (which suggested to the Defendant they would be calling round like bailiffs) adding further unexplained charges of £25 to the original £100 with no evidence of how this extra charge has been calculated.
    No figure for additional charges was 'agreed' nor could it have formed part of the alleged
    'contract' because no such indemnity costs were quantified on the signs.
    b) The Defendant also disputes that the Claimant has incurred £50 solicitor costs.
    c) The Defendant has the reasonable belief that the Claimant has not incurred £50 costs to pursue an
    alleged £100 debt.
    d) Not withstanding the Defendant's belief, the costs are in any case not recoverable.
    e) he Claimant described the charge of £50.00 "legal fees" not "contractual costs".
    CPR 27.14 does not permit these to be recovered in the Small Claims Court.


    The defendant therefore asks that the court orders the case to be struck out for want of a detailed
    course of action and/or for the claim as having no prospect of success.


    I believe the facts stated in this defence are true.
Page 2
    • NorthWestITConsultant
    • By NorthWestITConsultant 3rd Mar 17, 10:07 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    NorthWestITConsultant
    Hi Dot2101

    Thanks for getting in touch. I'll be here as much as I can to support you through the case.

    First thing is you need to get the witness statement over ASAP if you haven't already. The judge made a point of the fact that I was supposed to provide it 2 months earlier but that he'd accept it as it was 4 weeks in advance. I sent in some additional evidence 2 weeks before the date and that was just ignored.

    What key questions do you have with regards to the court date?

    The main things I'd point out are as follows:

    1) Rehearse cross examining Mr Hargreaves - I can provide you with examples of the kind of response he will give and some of the questions to ask (Hindsight will be a wonderful thing in this case!). I may send you these privately to keep him guessing in case somebody sees this post.

    2) Be prepared to get a harsh judge who doesn't like to talk to the layman and so prepare your statements in advance which sound professional and will make the judge take notice

    3) Be prepared for the type of arguments these lying scumbags will come out with.

    Let me know what else I can help with and I'll decide which is appropriate to go on here and which to send privately.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Mar 17, 1:22 PM
    • 45,770 Posts
    • 58,730 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Go for it, NW IT Consultant!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Dot2101
    • By Dot2101 3rd Mar 17, 7:28 PM
    • 60 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    Dot2101
    Thanks so much for your help,

    Court date due on 11th April and my papers say that I need to send the witness statement to all parties no later than 14 days before, it doesn't state business days so I am thinking I have until the 28th March. They have to pay the fee by the 14th, so far they haven't paid this but I know they are notorious for paying late.

    Can I ask how much you are now due to pay? Happy if you would prefer to tell me by PM. Our growing concern now is the money that it will cost us if we are an unlucky one, I know it's wrong but it's causing us and our family a lot of distress that it makes us want to try negotiate something (as much as I would hate to)

    Did you take anyone with you? The fine is registered to my partner but I have asked if I can go as a witness (as I was the one coming out of the shop with goods) can a witness speak much in terms of the arguements- I know I will be much better than my partner as I have been the one researching. If it does actually have to be him then I need to get training him!

    I've got pictures of the signs (before these were changed to the new company) , where the vehicle is stopped on the double yellows (you can see my partner in the car, we have about 6 images sent to us) there are no signs to say no stopping but they are saying it is because we are not parked on the confines of a parking space... well no because we weren't Parking! Do you have anything that you used which lists the font size that they can use etc? I have the Beavis sign which I will include?

    Did you get anywhere with contacting the landowner of the spittalfields site? I am back and forth with the current landowner but she has said she doesn't have a contact at ES anymore as they no longer work there, I have helpfully given her email addresses of people that do work there and she has said she will email. As she was a client at the time I am hoping they will have to be held accountable or that she will have some kind of power to get a case dropped - coupon mad have you heard of this happening much in these situations where new companies now manage the site?

    I will begin my witness statement over the weekend, northwest- would you be ok to look over this and see what you think?

    Thank you again for coming to here after your unlucky case to help us that are still suffering under these disgusting people, it is really appreciated
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Mar 17, 10:39 PM
    • 45,770 Posts
    • 58,730 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Did you take anyone with you? The fine is registered to my partner but I have asked if I can go as a witness (as I was the one coming out of the shop with goods) can a witness speak much in terms of the arguements- I know I will be much better than my partner as I have been the one researching. If it does actually have to be him then I need to get training him!
    You can only speak if you act as 'lay rep' (which you can, but some Judges don't know that). I am NOT talking about a 'Mackenzie friend'.

    Read these threads where women acted as lay reps, armed with the Lay Reps Right of Audience legislative proof that you CAN speak in court, and also (of course) accompanied by the defendant, who must still go:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5485487

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5533125

    Can I ask how much you are now due to pay?
    Read his thread for yourself:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=112089&st=0

    ... there are NO huge costs, the above poster (who is fighting back admirably, by staying on both forums to help others) paid just £200. No risk of a CCJ and losers are given 30 days to pay (winners can claim their lost leave/wages but not for you as lay rep).

    Losing is rare and sometimes just down to the lottery of a bad Judge.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • NorthWestITConsultant
    • By NorthWestITConsultant 6th Mar 17, 4:30 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    NorthWestITConsultant
    Thanks so much for your help,

    Court date due on 11th April and my papers say that I need to send the witness statement to all parties no later than 14 days before, it doesn't state business days so I am thinking I have until the 28th March. They have to pay the fee by the 14th, so far they haven't paid this but I know they are notorious for paying late.
    I'd assume they will be paying and you need to turn up to court. Get the witness statement in ASAP.

    Can I ask how much you are now due to pay? Happy if you would prefer to tell me by PM. Our growing concern now is the money that it will cost us if we are an unlucky one, I know it's wrong but it's causing us and our family a lot of distress that it makes us want to try negotiate something (as much as I would hate to)
    I am due to pay £200 now. It's not a big deal as far as I am concerned, it was more the principle and the wish to teach them a lesson that kept me on! I didn't do the best job defending myself to be honest, I highly doubt you will have a problem if you get your defence in good shape and cross examine him properly

    Did you take anyone with you? The fine is registered to my partner but I have asked if I can go as a witness (as I was the one coming out of the shop with goods) can a witness speak much in terms of the arguements- I know I will be much better than my partner as I have been the one researching. If it does actually have to be him then I need to get training him!
    Nope I just went myself, not sure if there is an issue with you both going? When I was at court there were several couples battling these scumbags.

    I've got pictures of the signs (before these were changed to the new company) , where the vehicle is stopped on the double yellows (you can see my partner in the car, we have about 6 images sent to us) there are no signs to say no stopping but they are saying it is because we are not parked on the confines of a parking space... well no because we weren't Parking! Do you have anything that you used which lists the font size that they can use etc? I have the Beavis sign which I will include?
    You should have a very strong point on the contract not being enforceable as it requires you to get out of the car to read the sign and that would mean breaching the contract. I'll send you more details on this privately closer to the time.

    Did you get anywhere with contacting the landowner of the spittalfields site? I am back and forth with the current landowner but she has said she doesn't have a contact at ES anymore as they no longer work there, I have helpfully given her email addresses of people that do work there and she has said she will email. As she was a client at the time I am hoping they will have to be held accountable or that she will have some kind of power to get a case dropped - coupon mad have you heard of this happening much in these situations where new companies now manage the site?
    Nope I didn't bother in this case. They are all clearly scumbags and not really looking to enforce sensible parking restrictions.

    I will begin my witness statement over the weekend, northwest- would you be ok to look over this and see what you think?
    Absolutely. I'll also send you mine and highlight the important points to battle out.

    Thank you again for coming to here after your unlucky case to help us that are still suffering under these disgusting people, it is really appreciated
    No worries, I'm going to use it to motivate me to help lot's of others in beating them
    Originally posted by Dot2101
    Hi Dot,

    Apologies for replying late on this, I had set up a subscription to this thread and didn't get anything through so assumed there was no activity on it. I'll check more regularly from now on.

    I've answered each of the above as best as I can.
    • Chelone Owner
    • By Chelone Owner 9th Mar 17, 1:04 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Chelone Owner
    good luck!
    I just wanted to say good luck, my court cast isn't till June, 10 months after the parking ticket was issued! Keep us up to date too! I'm sure common sense will prevail.
    • Dot2101
    • By Dot2101 9th Mar 17, 7:14 PM
    • 60 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    Dot2101
    Thank you, mine is 9 months later! Papers due in a couple of weeks. What I would say is try every method possible to complain: if it's by a shop, complain to the shop and their customer services (I also emailed the director of next), if you can find the landowners details, complain to them too.
    It's taken me a long time but Next are finally getting in touch with the landowner to discuss it with them so I am hoping that this might help. I am due an update from next tomorrow so I will keep you up to date. Make sure you take the advice from all the great people on this site that dedicate time to help us, id have struggled without them but now I feel like I'm very confident about the case and am doing all I can to avoid paying these disgraceful people!
    • Dot2101
    • By Dot2101 10th Mar 17, 6:45 PM
    • 60 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    Dot2101
    Found out today that the court fee has now been paid.
    The landowner has been trying to get in touch with E S but hasn't had any responses from them, issue is they don't have a contract with E S anymore so I'm not sure how much influence they will be able to have anymore, any ideas?
    She responded and commented

    I have chased them several times but to no avail I have also spoken to Next. It may be that you are indeed correct that the double yellow lines are not enforceable as they were not put in by the local authority they were put there as a deterrent to keep the shop fronts clear and free access at all times.

    I have asked her if she can continue trying to contact and if she can provide a letter with This information as she is seeming to suggest that she knows that the local authority didn't put these lines down so I am presuming that she did. If she won't write an email what are the rules about using an email as evidence or is it not worth putting in the WS?

    Thanks
    • Redx
    • By Redx 10th Mar 17, 7:03 PM
    • 13,962 Posts
    • 17,226 Thanks
    Redx
    get the landowner to write a witness statement on your behalf , backing up the fact that they wanted it to be cancelled and tried unsuccessfully to do so

    this will be submitted along with your own witness statement at the appropriate time
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Dot2101
    • By Dot2101 10th Mar 17, 8:55 PM
    • 60 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    Dot2101
    I will ask her if she can do this for us. Any clever pointers of the time of thing I should ask her to say or is it just as basic as she wanted to get it cancelled but couldn't get in touch
    Thanks for your reply and support
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 10th Mar 17, 9:03 PM
    • 6,768 Posts
    • 6,724 Thanks
    pappa golf
    perhaps a statement hinting that the reason there contract was terminated was because they were not acting on what the landowner wanted , and when asked to cancel charges for valid people they refused
    Have YOU had to walk 500 miles?
    Were you advised to walk 500 more?
    You could be entitled to compensation.
    Call the Pro Claimers NOW.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 11th Mar 17, 9:41 AM
    • 3,538 Posts
    • 4,989 Thanks
    Half_way
    Its good that the landowner agrees that this shold be cancelled( if im reading this right)
    However you need something concrete off them to show this to a judge.
    If you have such a thing then you can claim that the parking company is acting unreasonably by allowing this to continue, this could mean you can claim all of your costs ( in excess of the usual capped amount)

    you could request that the person who is/was trying to get this cancelled with ES attend court, and tell them that they will face questioning in front of a judge about their relationship with ES parking, and possibly other matters, or ask them to sign a letter, something along the lines of....


    name of landowner/car park owner__________ ___ Re Parking charge notice number/ref_______ issued by ES parking in our car park and being pursued in the County court by ES parking/Gladstone solicitor.
    We (name of landowner/car park owner) employed ES parking to act as our agents in our car park at the time/date of the above parking charge being issued
    Despite our best efforts to contact our agents in resolving this issue and cancelling the parking charge notice as well as instructing ES parking that we do not support this matter being pursued through the courts and wasting the courts valuable time, they are continuing to pursue this matter via the court system.
    We as principal do not authorise ES parking to pursue this matter in court, against (defendant)___________________ and as such they have no authority, to continue with this unreasonable behaviour.

    The above is a statement of truth
    Signed ( by or on behalf of the landowner/retail park)____________ date_________

    it may need a bit of adjustment, dont send it as is, however once youve got firm evidence that the landowner ( principal) does not want this to proceed then that puts Will Hurley and John Davies and coat Gladstones, as well as ES parking decidedly on the back foot.
    As well as claiming for unreasonable behaviour. It may also be possible to issue a counter claim
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Dot2101
    • By Dot2101 11th Mar 17, 10:01 AM
    • 60 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    Dot2101
    She's not said in as many words but once I had sent her the images of the vehicle showing the short time frame she said she would get in touch with the company, when I chased for an update that was her response above... to me it suggests that she agrees that it cannot be legally enforceable. I will send her a similar copy to that letter to see if she's happy to sign this off, all my fingers crossed that she will agree!
    Thank you for sending the draft, haven't spotted anything like this elsewhere so really useful, thanks!
    • Dot2101
    • By Dot2101 11th Mar 17, 10:10 AM
    • 60 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    Dot2101
    She's not said in as many words but once I had sent her the images of the vehicle showing the short time frame she said she would get in touch with the company, when I chased for an update that was her response above... to me it suggests that she agrees that it cannot be legally enforceable. I will send her a similar copy to that letter to see if she's happy to sign this off, all my fingers crossed that she will agree!
    Thank you for sending the draft, haven't spotted anything like this elsewhere so really useful, thanks!
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 11th Mar 17, 10:17 AM
    • 3,538 Posts
    • 4,989 Thanks
    Half_way
    I would stay clear of the not legally enforceable route, as it can case confusion, and aim at the we do not support this matter being pursued through the court, which will give a much clearer message, be easier for the principal to deal with and understand, as well as pulling the rug from under the feet of the likes of Gladstones/ES, sitting landowner/principal authority any court action should be stuffed.
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Dot2101
    • By Dot2101 13th Mar 17, 10:45 PM
    • 60 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    Dot2101
    Hi I have not made much progress with the landowner today so in the meantime I am preparing the witness statement.

    I am struggling to stop myself from adding a lot of detail. If I produce my first draft please can I ask that someone could check this over? - I think I am blurring the lines of the skeleton arguement and the witness statement, does this matter too much if it is more of a combination between the 2 - I have read mixed opinions on Pepipoo.

    I am in the middle of reading through the newbies stickee to help me at this stage
    i was directed to this but post #15 which i think is a copy of the WS is not able to be downloaded here: hxxp://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=106957&st=0&p=1239147&#entry12 39147

    Thanks again for your support
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Mar 17, 9:09 AM
    • 45,770 Posts
    • 58,730 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I think I am blurring the lines of the skeleton argument and the witness statement, does this matter too much if it is more of a combination between the 2 - I have read mixed opinions on Pepipoo.
    The general consensus - and bargepole's view - is it is OK in small claims. So I go along with that.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • NorthWestITConsultant
    • By NorthWestITConsultant 14th Mar 17, 10:12 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    NorthWestITConsultant
    A lot does depend on the judge. I'd make your witness statement to the point and elaborate more in court with your own notes.
    • Dot2101
    • By Dot2101 14th Mar 17, 2:33 PM
    • 60 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    Dot2101
    Great thank you.
    I spent a lot of time last night thinking about arguements - the main one in the defense is that the vehicle was stopped rather than parked to collect me coming out of next. I have scanned back to my iPhone steps and it as good as correlates time wise of me walking to come out of the store to the images they have of me coming out and heading to the vehicle. I thought this might help show the situation a little better that at xx time I was walking out of the store and my steps on my iPhone show the times that I was moving then I didn't move for another 15 minutes as by then I was sat in the car and on our way. Do you know if this kind of evidence has been used before and if it would help at all, or am I making things more complex than they need to be?
    • NorthWestITConsultant
    • By NorthWestITConsultant 14th Mar 17, 2:43 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    NorthWestITConsultant
    Great thank you.
    I spent a lot of time last night thinking about arguements - the main one in the defense is that the vehicle was stopped rather than parked to collect me coming out of next. I have scanned back to my iPhone steps and it as good as correlates time wise of me walking to come out of the store to the images they have of me coming out and heading to the vehicle. I thought this might help show the situation a little better that at xx time I was walking out of the store and my steps on my iPhone show the times that I was moving then I didn't move for another 15 minutes as by then I was sat in the car and on our way. Do you know if this kind of evidence has been used before and if it would help at all, or am I making things more complex than they need to be?
    Originally posted by Dot2101
    I think for general guidance it's good to put stuff up on here. But I'm sure Mr Hargreaves and co will be on here scanning through to prepare their arguments. I'm thinking maybe use PMs for more specific stuff.
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