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  • FIRST POST
    • Spies
    • By Spies 1st Nov 16, 1:29 PM
    • 78Posts
    • 32Thanks
    Spies
    Cavity wall claims
    • #1
    • 1st Nov 16, 1:29 PM
    Cavity wall claims 1st Nov 16 at 1:29 PM
    Last winter, due to the excess rain I had some quite major issues with penetrating rain getting across the cavity on to the internal wall.

    This made the paint bubble in a few places but one patch was so bad, that the plaster has fallen off.

    I haven't done any remedial work yet because I basically cannot afford to.

    My house was built in 1996 by Russel Armer, I purchased it in 2013 without the knowledge that there has been any previous damp issues, but looking at the estate agent photos now, I can see a slightly dark area on the wall where the problems have occurred.

    Today I received a leaflet through the door from mycavityclaim.com, obviously this was of interest to me because the builders that I got quotes from said that the wall with the problems, shouldn't have had cavity wall insulation put it because its a weather facing wall. I had no idea there was anything in place to be able to claim for incorrectly fit cavity insulation.

    Has anyone had any dealings with the above company or could you recommend an alternative that you have?
Page 1
    • the_r_sole
    • By the_r_sole 1st Nov 16, 2:23 PM
    • 2,315 Posts
    • 1,163 Thanks
    the_r_sole
    • #2
    • 1st Nov 16, 2:23 PM
    • #2
    • 1st Nov 16, 2:23 PM
    do you have a guarantee for the work?
    Who did the cavity wall insulation?
    • Spies
    • By Spies 1st Nov 16, 2:40 PM
    • 78 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    Spies
    • #3
    • 1st Nov 16, 2:40 PM
    • #3
    • 1st Nov 16, 2:40 PM
    It was done when the house was built.
    • the_r_sole
    • By the_r_sole 1st Nov 16, 2:43 PM
    • 2,315 Posts
    • 1,163 Thanks
    the_r_sole
    • #4
    • 1st Nov 16, 2:43 PM
    • #4
    • 1st Nov 16, 2:43 PM
    ahh, so it won't be applicable for any of these claims or guarantees as they are set up for defective cavity wall insulation installed as part of the government backed schemes

    Are you sure that you have full fill cavity wall insulation? do you know what material is in the cavity?
    • Spies
    • By Spies 1st Nov 16, 2:47 PM
    • 78 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    Spies
    • #5
    • 1st Nov 16, 2:47 PM
    • #5
    • 1st Nov 16, 2:47 PM
    Directly from the horses mouth...

    "internal and external block skin with full filled blown fibre cavity wall insulation."
    • the_r_sole
    • By the_r_sole 1st Nov 16, 2:58 PM
    • 2,315 Posts
    • 1,163 Thanks
    the_r_sole
    • #6
    • 1st Nov 16, 2:58 PM
    • #6
    • 1st Nov 16, 2:58 PM
    well, you can get it removed but it's an expensive thing to do - it cost me ~1k to get one wall done.
    I don't think you would have any luck claiming it was installed incorrectly (which is what the claims are based on) as it was a new build specifically designed for that insulation type. I would give it a go with one of these companies and see if they think you are eligible
    • Spies
    • By Spies 1st Nov 16, 3:01 PM
    • 78 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    Spies
    • #7
    • 1st Nov 16, 3:01 PM
    • #7
    • 1st Nov 16, 3:01 PM
    CWI guarantee should still apply in my mind, just because the property was designed for it, doesn't mean they did a good job (which clearly isn't the case if rain is penetrating the cavity).

    I will try to establish if a guarantee exists for my property first.
    Last edited by Spies; 01-11-2016 at 3:05 PM.
    • Chanes
    • By Chanes 1st Nov 16, 5:04 PM
    • 841 Posts
    • 523 Thanks
    Chanes
    • #8
    • 1st Nov 16, 5:04 PM
    • #8
    • 1st Nov 16, 5:04 PM
    well, you can get it removed but it's an expensive thing to do - it cost me ~1k to get one wall done.
    Originally posted by the_r_sole
    We bought a house with CWI but it hasn't caused any problems (we negotiated 1k off the price in case it ever did, it's 15 years old since it was installed) and does make the house really warm. But I wouldn't have it installed to a house without it because I feel it is a gamble and it shouldn't be. And to the point! Sorry t ramble - why did you have it removed from just one wall? We were quoted 3k for removal from a reasoble sized detached.
    • the_r_sole
    • By the_r_sole 1st Nov 16, 7:44 PM
    • 2,315 Posts
    • 1,163 Thanks
    the_r_sole
    • #9
    • 1st Nov 16, 7:44 PM
    • #9
    • 1st Nov 16, 7:44 PM
    And to the point! Sorry t ramble - why did you have it removed from just one wall? We were quoted 3k for removal from a reasoble sized detached.
    Originally posted by Chanes
    We had one wall which gets all the weather and got all the damp, there no evidence of damp in the other walls so didn't see the value in having it removed where it wasn't problematic given the expense involved
    • brightontraveller
    • By brightontraveller 2nd Nov 16, 4:20 AM
    • 1,301 Posts
    • 498 Thanks
    brightontraveller
    Dealt with quite a few properties with CWI and found if you get a problem with it remove on affected wall / area, Cavity walls aren’t really suited to uk climate they work better in dry arid countries why on earth anyone thought it was a good idea to add to it something thing that’s at best is often problematic was beyond me ? Better cheaper less risk solutions out there…. You can try and see if you can get works done “free “ but personally I’d make sure if they did that they don’t then replace it ?
    • Chanes
    • By Chanes 2nd Nov 16, 11:37 AM
    • 841 Posts
    • 523 Thanks
    Chanes
    We had one wall which gets all the weather and got all the damp, there no evidence of damp in the other walls so didn't see the value in having it removed where it wasn't problematic given the expense involved
    Originally posted by the_r_sole
    I see. Couldn't you let it dry out after removal and have it insulated to the exterior as they do with solid walls? That is if you want to insulate again.
    • the_r_sole
    • By the_r_sole 2nd Nov 16, 11:43 AM
    • 2,315 Posts
    • 1,163 Thanks
    the_r_sole
    I see. Couldn't you let it dry out after removal and have it insulated to the exterior as they do with solid walls? That is if you want to insulate again.
    Originally posted by Chanes
    There's very little point in insulating externally in a cavity wall construction. If I wanted to insulate again it would be some kind of strapping and lining internally but I don't have the money to do that at the moment
    • teneighty
    • By teneighty 2nd Nov 16, 12:39 PM
    • 986 Posts
    • 683 Thanks
    teneighty
    Last winter, due to the excess rain I had some quite major issues with penetrating rain getting across the cavity on to the internal wall.

    This made the paint bubble in a few places but one patch was so bad, that the plaster has fallen off.

    I haven't done any remedial work yet because I basically cannot afford to.

    My house was built in 1996 by Russel Armer, I purchased it in 2013 without the knowledge that there has been any previous damp issues, but looking at the estate agent photos now, I can see a slightly dark area on the wall where the problems have occurred.

    Today I received a leaflet through the door from mycavityclaim.com, obviously this was of interest to me because the builders that I got quotes from said that the wall with the problems, shouldn't have had cavity wall insulation put it because its a weather facing wall. I had no idea there was anything in place to be able to claim for incorrectly fit cavity insulation.

    Has anyone had any dealings with the above company or could you recommend an alternative that you have?
    Originally posted by Spies
    The fact that this is a relatively modern house apparently with blown mineral fibre insulation installed at the time of construction suggests that this is not a run of the mill case.

    At that time the construction would have been subject to the Building Regulations and should have taken into account the full fill insulation to prevent damp penetration through the cavity walls. The company you mention seems to be based in Cumbria so potentially the property is in an exposed location where full fill cavity wall insulation can be problematic. If that is the case the wall construction may well have been designed to offer additional protection. You say the construction is blockwork to inner and outer skins of the cavity wall...what is the external finish? Render, cladding etc.

    Could the dampness be caused by a localised defect such as leaking gutter soaking a section of the external wall or a defective cavity tray? There are numerous potential causes and removing the insulation could be unnecessary.

    It might be worth paying for an independent surveyor to inspect the property rather than relying on builders who may be trying to pad out the job and certainly avoid the dubious claims companies.

    Photos often help the forum give more specific advice.
    • Spies
    • By Spies 12th Sep 17, 1:21 PM
    • 78 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    Spies
    I forgot about this post, I've started having issues once again with penetrating damp, the wall is wet to the touch, I never bothered getting it fixed from last time because I (rightly) thought the new window wouldn't completely fix the problem.

    It's an eyesore and makes me sad everytime I have to move the chair out to get pictures. So here they are, the pink wall which proceeds the white wall is the other side of the areas that have been damp.

    https://1drv.ms/f/s!Am1UKWI5JcFFphm1IVgbhKsgNFNK
    • teneighty
    • By teneighty 12th Sep 17, 1:50 PM
    • 986 Posts
    • 683 Thanks
    teneighty
    My guess would be it is something to do with the window opening. Either water spilling off the end of the cavity tray/lintel and soaking the insulation and wall down the window reveal or possibly water tracking across the end of the window cill.

    Borescope inspection of those areas probably the simplest, otherwise opening up the cavity which will be far more disruptive.

    By the way, that is an unusual looking house for 1996.
    • Spies
    • By Spies 12th Sep 17, 4:01 PM
    • 78 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    Spies
    My guess would be it is something to do with the window opening. Either water spilling off the end of the cavity tray/lintel and soaking the insulation and wall down the window reveal or possibly water tracking across the end of the window cill.

    Borescope inspection of those areas probably the simplest, otherwise opening up the cavity which will be far more disruptive.

    By the way, that is an unusual looking house for 1996.
    Originally posted by teneighty
    It's classed as a mews style house.

    I'm going to try and get a borescope inspection done but the first company I called (whom are apparently the leading specialists in damp proofing) don't do it.

    Managed to find a company that can come and do a borescape and thermal image tomorrow.
    Last edited by Spies; 12-09-2017 at 4:40 PM. Reason: Found a company
    • teneighty
    • By teneighty 12th Sep 17, 5:48 PM
    • 986 Posts
    • 683 Thanks
    teneighty
    Are yes thermal imaging, I forgot about that. It is proving very useful in identifying hidden paths of damp penetration.

    Hopefully when the cost of thermal imaging cameras comes down it will become a standard bit of kit in every surveyor's tool bag.
    • Spies
    • By Spies 13th Sep 17, 3:31 PM
    • 78 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    Spies
    Cavity extraction people came round today, used the thermal imaging camera and found cold spots all over that wall where the insulation has got damp and slumped.

    Drilled into the wall and found white instafibre, this was showing a moisture content of 25-40%, measured the cavity which was deemed to be too narrow so that should never have been used, where the stone coins are around the window, the cavity is even narrower, in addition to this, it should never have been used in a wall which gets as much wind driven rain as we do in this area (4/4 on the wind driven index).

    2 things have caused the insulation to get wet, one is condensation and 2 is the crazing in the outside render where rain water is getting to the block using capillary action.

    Basically, it all has to come out, but I'm going to pursue the house builders, too many mistakes were made when it was originally installed.
    Last edited by Spies; 13-09-2017 at 3:38 PM.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 13th Sep 17, 6:58 PM
    • 3,486 Posts
    • 2,179 Thanks
    Furts

    2 things have caused the insulation to get wet, one is condensation and 2 is the crazing in the outside render where rain water is getting to the block using capillary action.

    Basically, it all has to come out, but I'm going to pursue the house builders, too many mistakes were made when it was originally installed.
    Originally posted by Spies
    Ponder carefully before following this route. The original warranty expired long ago, and you have a 21 year old home. The defects should have been sorted by the previous owners years back, and you purchased on caveat emptor. So you have to pick up a responsibility here. You purchased in the knowledge that the render was in a poor state - it does not deteriorate magically in the couple of years since you purchased.

    The render will have cracking, because endless modern render on new builds is like this. This raises the concept of maintenance. The previous owners, and subsequently you, have a duty of care to yourself to coat the render and deal with the cracks. It appears you and they have failed here so expect a vigorous defence from the original builder. Basically I doubt you have a leg to stand on by going after the builder.
    • Spies
    • By Spies 13th Sep 17, 9:49 PM
    • 78 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    Spies
    The fact is that it was retrofitted, the house builder conveniently doesn't know who the contractor is they hired, the CIGA guarantee should still apply (25 years) but again they're not being very helpful. If the house builder didn't use a registered installer that's a whole new can of worms.
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