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  • FIRST POST
    • Peter333
    • By Peter333 18th Oct 16, 3:41 PM
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    Peter333
    Advice please... Very pushy woman at the Church my wife goes to. (Very long post.)
    • #1
    • 18th Oct 16, 3:41 PM
    Advice please... Very pushy woman at the Church my wife goes to. (Very long post.) 18th Oct 16 at 3:41 PM
    OK some advice please. My wife has been attending the local Church in our little village since we have lived here (several years,) and she goes maybe twice a month.

    She was asked when we first came here, if she wanted to attend a monthly Group that met for worship and singing and a general chat. She went, and thought it was OK, but as she is not great in big groups, and not a hugely sociable person, she wasn’t a massive fan, especially as there were several loud, rather obnoxious characters there who liked the sound of their own voice. She generally just sat and listened. As the months passed, she grew to like it less, and went to it less.

    It got to the point where she was just getting bored with it, and she said although half a dozen of the 18-20 people who attend are quite OK, there are quite a few people there who are just snobs, who spend time bragging about their villa in Australia, and their holidays in Lapland, and how many material possessions they have, and there are also a few bigots.

    She said she felt relieved if it was cancelled, and felt her heart sink at the thought of going if it wasn’t. I said this is no way to live, dreading something every month. But she couldn't find a way to say she didn't want to go anymore.

    However, after getting so bored and fed up with it for so long, coupled with the fact that we have a lot going on in our lives right now, (from good happy stuff to quite stressful challenging stuff,) my wife decided to tell them she was withdrawing from the Group. She decided she would say ‘I have a lot going on right now; I wish to withdraw from the Group.’

    But she knew she couldn’t say it to the leader’s face, or even ring her, because this woman always tries to find solutions and remedies. She would have come up with a reason why my wife CAN attend this Group, or she would have said, ‘oh come to Prayer Morning instead,’ or, ‘The over 50s Group,’or ‘House group every Monday,’ when in actual fact, my wife doesn’t want to go to ANYthing. Just Church.

    So anyway, she decided to write a letter, and pop it through the leader’s letterbox saying ‘I am sorry I can't make the Group next Tuesday, as I have something on, and I can’t make November’s either sorry, and December and January is out for me too, as I have other plans for the dates.‘

    And then she went on to say ‘I am sorry to say this, but I am going to withdraw from the group. I have missed so many of the meetings this year because of other things getting in the way, and I feel bad every time I have to tell you I can't come, and it’s not fair on you or the group for me to keep not attending, so I am withdrawing. Also, as I have a lot going on in my life right now, I cannot commit to anything else – like any other groups or regular meetings. Thanks for everything and for inviting me, and I will see you in Church sometime.’ (She didn't have the heart to say 'I just don't like it,' so she just said she won't be coming anymore as she finds it hard to regularly attend anything at this point in her life.)

    Well, this was 2 days ago. Then this morning, the leader of the Group rang and we didn’t answer as we were in the garage, and she left a message saying ‘You don't need to leave the Group, and you don’t have to feel bad if you don’t come every month, just come when you can make it. And you sounded stressed in your letter, I hope everything is OK. Let’s meet for a coffee; I am in all afternoon and tomorrow, so ring me back, and we will arrange to meet for a coffee and a long chat.’

    Argh! Did she even read the letter? Or did she read it and just pay no attention? My wife said she was withdrawing from the Group, and has a lot going on in her life right now, and doesn't want to commit to anything. Yet, now this woman has put my wife under pressure to still attend the Group 'when she can,' and she has also put her under pressure to ring her back and arrange to meet for a 'chat!' My wife shouldn't need to explain herself any further.

    I don't think this woman means any harm, but she is so pushy, and can’t seem to take the hint! My wife just wants to relax and regroup and have some peace, as we have had so much going on lately, and this woman has just put her in an awkward position. Why could she not have just said ‘thanks for the letter, sorry you’re leaving the Group, you are welcome back at any time, ring me if you need to talk!’

    Not ‘well, you can still come to the Group, no-one said you had to come EVERY month, and ring me and we will arrange to meet for a coffee and a chat about everything!’

    My wife is almost back at square one now!

    This is the same women BTW, who (some months back,) made half the Group members put their private phone number on a piece of paper, and the other half pick them out, and said they had to ring the person whose number they had, for a coffee, to get to know them better. Loads of people felt awkward. I know the woman means well, but I found what she did very manipulative.

    I know my wife didn't tell the leader that she simply doesn't like coming, but even if she had, this woman would still have tried to remedy it, and find a way to make her keep coming!!!

    What should my wife do next?

    Thanks for reading this, and for listening.
    As of 25th October 2016, I am not participating in this site. Until MSE sorts out the issue with insidious trouble-makers, it's no longer a place I wish to be. I can't be bothered with the constant battle with trolls.

    MSE is not a nice place to be at the moment, and hasn't been for a while now. So I'm outta here for the foreseeable future.
Page 1
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 18th Oct 16, 3:52 PM
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    spadoosh
    • #2
    • 18th Oct 16, 3:52 PM
    • #2
    • 18th Oct 16, 3:52 PM
    Why is she in an awkward position? I cant imagine anyone is reliant on her attending so no pressure there.

    This is why it normally pays to be honest and not dishonest when youre trying to get out of something. She should have just said it isnt for me thank you i just want to attend church. Its your wifes position of not wanting to upset someone (over something they probably wouldnt get upset over) that has led her to this situation.

    Tell her to just not go, she doesnt have to explain herself if she doesnt want. It sounds like theres guilt there for some reason (probably because she was dishonest in her reasons for not wanting to go) and any anxiety surrounding the issue is of her own creating.

    It sounds like the pushy women is trying her best to be as accommodating as possible. Ie no pressure come when you can.


    Honesty is the best policy.


    Alternatively change church or dont go to church. Going to church is not compulsory.
    Don't be angry!
    • tea lover
    • By tea lover 18th Oct 16, 3:54 PM
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    tea lover
    • #3
    • 18th Oct 16, 3:54 PM
    • #3
    • 18th Oct 16, 3:54 PM
    If your wife isn't going to be honest with people she can't then get annoyed at them not being mind-readers.

    She sent a letter saying she was busy and wouldn't be attending as it wasn't fair on everyone else in the group to dip in and out - the leader has responded in a perfectly sensible way by saying don't worry if you're not here all the time, you're always welcome when you do have the time.

    If what your wife actually meant was "I don't like this group and won't be attending anymore" it would have been easier to just say that.
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 18th Oct 16, 3:54 PM
    • 3,709 Posts
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    spadoosh
    • #4
    • 18th Oct 16, 3:54 PM
    • #4
    • 18th Oct 16, 3:54 PM
    Sorry, but there must be some way to cut down that wall of text and keep the basics of the problem!
    Originally posted by Person_one
    His wife doesnt want to go to a community group assosciated with church. She kept making excuses not to go. A 'pushy' women has said come when you can and shows some concern that the wife had to write a letter indicating she was withdrawing from the group and the wife now feels anxious about the situation.
    Don't be angry!
    • ognum
    • By ognum 18th Oct 16, 3:58 PM
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    ognum
    • #5
    • 18th Oct 16, 3:58 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Oct 16, 3:58 PM
    OK some advice please. My wife has been attending the local Church in our little village since we have lived here (several years,) and she goes maybe twice a month.

    She was asked when we first came here, if she wanted to attend a monthly Group that met for worship and singing and a general chat. She went, and thought it was OK, but as she is not great in big groups, and not a hugely sociable person, she wasn’t a massive fan, especially as there were several loud, rather obnoxious characters there who liked the sound of their own voice. She generally just sat and listened. As the months passed, she grew to like it less, and went to it less.

    It got to the point where she was just getting bored with it, and she said although half a dozen of the 18-20 people who attend are quite OK, there are quite a few people there who are just snobs, who spend time bragging about their villa in Australia, and their holidays in Lapland, and how many material possessions they have, and there are also a few bigots.

    She said she felt relieved if it was cancelled, and felt her heart sink at the thought of going if it wasn’t. I said this is no way to live, dreading something every month. But she couldn't find a way to say she didn't want to go anymore.

    However, after getting so bored and fed up with it for so long, coupled with the fact that we have a lot going on in our lives right now, (from good happy stuff to quite stressful challenging stuff,) my wife decided to tell them she was withdrawing from the Group. She decided she would say ‘I have a lot going on right now; I wish to withdraw from the Group.’

    But she knew she couldn’t say it to the leader’s face, or even ring her, because this woman always tries to find solutions and remedies. She would have come up with a reason why my wife CAN attend this Group, or she would have said, ‘oh come to Prayer Morning instead,’ or, ‘The over 50s Group,’or ‘House group every Monday,’ when in actual fact, my wife doesn’t want to go to ANYthing. Just Church.

    So anyway, she decided to write a letter, and pop it through the leader’s letterbox saying ‘I am sorry I can't make the Group next Tuesday, as I have something on, and I can’t make November’s either sorry, and December and January is out for me too, as I have other plans for the dates.‘

    And then she went on to say ‘I am sorry to say this, but I am going to withdraw from the group. I have missed so many of the meetings this year because of other things getting in the way, and I feel bad every time I have to tell you I can't come, and it’s not fair on you or the group for me to keep not attending, so I am withdrawing. Also, as I have a lot going on in my life right now, I cannot commit to anything else – like any other groups or regular meetings. Thanks for everything and for inviting me, and I will see you in Church sometime.’ (She didn't have the heart to say 'I just don't like it,' so she just said she won't be coming anymore as she finds it hard to regularly attend anything at this point in her life.)

    Well, this was 2 days ago. Then this morning, the leader of the Group rang and we didn’t answer as we were in the garage, and she left a message saying ‘You don't need to leave the Group, and you don’t have to feel bad if you don’t come every month, just come when you can make it. And you sounded stressed in your letter, I hope everything is OK. Let’s meet for a coffee; I am in all afternoon and tomorrow, so ring me back, and we will arrange to meet for a coffee and a long chat.’

    Argh! Did she even read the letter? Or did she read it and just pay no attention? My wife said she was withdrawing from the Group, and has a lot going on in her life right now, and doesn't want to commit to anything. Yet, now this woman has put my wife under pressure to still attend the Group 'when she can,' and she has also put her under pressure to ring her back and arrange to meet for a 'chat!' My wife shouldn't need to explain herself any further.

    I don't think this woman means any harm, but she is so pushy, and can’t seem to take the hint! My wife just wants to relax and regroup and have some peace, as we have had so much going on lately, and this woman has just put her in an awkward position. Why could she not have just said ‘thanks for the letter, sorry you’re leaving the Group, you are welcome back at any time, ring me if you need to talk!’

    Not ‘well, you can still come to the Group, no-one said you had to come EVERY month, and ring me and we will arrange to meet for a coffee and a chat about everything!’

    My wife is almost back at square one now!

    This is the same women BTW, who (some months back,) made half the Group members put their private phone number on a piece of paper, and the other half pick them out, and said they had to ring the person whose number they had, for a coffee, to get to know them better. Loads of people felt awkward. I know the woman means well, but I found what she did very manipulative.

    I know my wife didn't tell the leader that she simply doesn't like coming, but even if she had, this woman would still have tried to remedy it, and find a way to make her keep coming!!!

    What should my wife do next?

    Thanks for reading this, and for listening.
    Originally posted by Peter333
    Do you maybe think that both you and your wife have built this into a bigger problem than it is.

    She has said only go when you want, well if when you want is never then never go,

    Your wife sounds a bit 'soft' in the nicest possible sense. A quick call saying thanks for her concern all is fine she will come to the group as and when she can is all that is needed.

    Don't build mountains!
    • geminilady
    • By geminilady 18th Oct 16, 3:59 PM
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    geminilady
    • #6
    • 18th Oct 16, 3:59 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Oct 16, 3:59 PM
    As your wife just wrote a letter I cannot understand why she did not say she was not enjoying the group so was leaving.As she did not she will have to grow a pair and say that to the women if she continues to phone.
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 18th Oct 16, 4:06 PM
    • 3,817 Posts
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    iammumtoone
    • #7
    • 18th Oct 16, 4:06 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Oct 16, 4:06 PM
    Nothing

    To be fair the note your wife wrote to an outsider does read as if she still wants to be a member but is giving up because its better for the group but not really what she wants, the women has tried to help by saying there is no pressure to come every time or keep phoning to say she can't make it.

    So just do as the women suggests and 'go when she can' the fact she wont ever be able to go again is irrelevant if questioned further just keep to the line 'sorry still really busy, I will come when i can or I can withdraw from the group and re-join later if that makes it easier"

    Regarding meeting for coffee all your wife has to say is to thank her for the offer, reassure her she is fine just busy and say she will contact her when she has the time spare but at the moment that looks like it will be at least new year.
    • Peter333
    • By Peter333 18th Oct 16, 4:16 PM
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    Peter333
    • #8
    • 18th Oct 16, 4:16 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Oct 16, 4:16 PM
    Why is she in an awkward position? I cant imagine anyone is reliant on her attending so no pressure there.

    This is why it normally pays to be honest and not dishonest when youre trying to get out of something. She should have just said it isnt for me thank you i just want to attend church. Its your wifes position of not wanting to upset someone (over something they probably wouldnt get upset over) that has led her to this situation.

    Tell her to just not go, she doesnt have to explain herself if she doesnt want. It sounds like theres guilt there for some reason (probably because she was dishonest in her reasons for not wanting to go) and any anxiety surrounding the issue is of her own creating.

    It sounds like the pushy women is trying her best to be as accommodating as possible. Ie no pressure come when you can.


    Honesty is the best policy.


    Alternatively change church or dont go to church. Going to church is not compulsory.
    Originally posted by spadoosh
    As your wife just wrote a letter I cannot understand why she did not say she was not enjoying the group so was leaving.As she did not she will have to grow a pair and say that to the women if she continues to phone.
    Originally posted by geminilady

    If your wife isn't going to be honest with people she can't then get annoyed at them not being mind-readers.

    She sent a letter saying she was busy and wouldn't be attending as it wasn't fair on everyone else in the group to dip in and out - the leader has responded in a perfectly sensible way by saying don't worry if you're not here all the time, you're always welcome when you do have the time.

    If what your wife actually meant was "I don't like this group and won't be attending anymore" it would have been easier to just say that.
    Originally posted by tea lover

    Thanks so much, and I know what you are all saying, (and several others too,) but as I said in my long message, even if my wife HAD said 'I don't like it anymore, I don't wish to attend,' this woman would have tried to find a way to 'fix it,' to prevent her from leaving, by saying 'what can we do to remedy this.......?' Or she would have said, 'come to this come to that come to the other ..........'

    No matter what my wife had said, it would have resulted in the pushy woman trying to make her continue to attend the Group, or something else. So this is why she said, 'it's not fair for me to keep not attending, and I can't commit to anything, so I will see you in Church....' So she couldn't/wouldn't be able to say 'yeah but yeah but, come to this then, come to that then..' IYSWIM.


    Nothing

    To be fair the note your wife wrote to an outsider does read as if she still wants to be a member but is giving up because its better for the group but not really what she wants, the women has tried to help by saying there is no pressure to come every time or keep phoning to say she can't make it.

    So just do as the women suggests and 'go when she can' the fact she wont ever be able to go again is irrelevant if questioned further just keep to the line 'sorry still really busy, I will come when i can or I can withdraw from the group and re-join later if that makes it easier"

    Regarding meeting for coffee all your wife has to say is to thank her for the offer, reassure her she is fine just busy and say she will contact her when she has the time spare but at the moment that looks like it will be at least new year.
    Originally posted by iammumtoone
    Thank you. I think she should do nothing too, as she has already dropped this woman a letter in explaining her situation and that she is not attending the Group any longer. And IMO, she should not need to explain herself any further. There was no need for woman to say 'we shall meet for a coffee and a chat' IMO. My wife has already explained herself.

    It was never going to be easy, as some people in the Church do not like to take no for an answer...
    Last edited by Peter333; 18-10-2016 at 4:24 PM.
    As of 25th October 2016, I am not participating in this site. Until MSE sorts out the issue with insidious trouble-makers, it's no longer a place I wish to be. I can't be bothered with the constant battle with trolls.

    MSE is not a nice place to be at the moment, and hasn't been for a while now. So I'm outta here for the foreseeable future.
    • Person_one
    • By Person_one 18th Oct 16, 4:16 PM
    • 25,995 Posts
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    Person_one
    • #9
    • 18th Oct 16, 4:16 PM
    • #9
    • 18th Oct 16, 4:16 PM
    His wife doesnt want to go to a community group assosciated with church. She kept making excuses not to go. A 'pushy' women has said come when you can and shows some concern that the wife had to write a letter indicating she was withdrawing from the group and the wife now feels anxious about the situation.
    Originally posted by spadoosh
    Thanks!

    Maybe wife should see the GP about her anxiety?
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 18th Oct 16, 4:29 PM
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    Gloomendoom
    There was no need for woman to say 'we shall meet for a coffee and a chat' IMO. My wife has already explained herself.
    Originally posted by Peter333
    Of course there was. If I had read that letter, I would be concerned that your wife was OK. Particularly as the communication was in the form of a letter in the first place.

    You are reading far too much into this. The poor woman 's response was, in my view anyway, understandable and quite normal.
    Advice; it rhymes with mice. Advise; it rhymes with wise.
    • tea lover
    • By tea lover 18th Oct 16, 4:29 PM
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    tea lover
    And IMO, she should not need to explain herself any further. There was no need for woman to say 'we shall meet for a coffee and a chat' IMO. My wife has already explained herself.
    Originally posted by Peter333
    It's not about 'explaining yourself' - the woman has asked if your wife is ok and if she'd like a coffee.... ie. she's been friendly. For the life of me I cannot fathom your response towards her.

    You seem to have taken a well-meaning gesture and fretted it into some awful act towards yourself.
    • AndyBSG
    • By AndyBSG 18th Oct 16, 4:30 PM
    • 814 Posts
    • 998 Thanks
    AndyBSG
    I'm afraid to say your wife has taken the wrong approach.

    If you get a cold call and say "Sorry, can't talk now" or "Now is not convenient" then they will keep phoning you. If you simply say "I'm not interested please don't contact me" you're much likely to be left alone.

    I remember when elections were going on and the local canvassers were coming round. I foolishly told them I hadn't decided which way to vote and found they kept 'popping by' and pestering me.

    As soon as I told them I wasn't going to vote for them they left me alone.

    Your wife should simply say she know longer wishes to attend and her reasons are private and will remain so which she hopes they will respect as she wishes no further discussion of it.

    May seem blunt but sometimes that's the only way.
    • ThemeOne
    • By ThemeOne 18th Oct 16, 4:31 PM
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    • 536 Thanks
    ThemeOne
    I think your wife has just tried to be too nice about this. There was a thread on here a few weeks ago about learning to say no, and I think this is a case in point.

    It's not a crime not to want to attend a church group. Your wife can do as she pleases, and it doesn't matter if this other woman gets upset.
    • Peter333
    • By Peter333 18th Oct 16, 4:40 PM
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    Peter333
    It's not about 'explaining yourself' - the woman has asked if your wife is ok and if she'd like a coffee.... ie. she's been friendly. For the life of me I cannot fathom your response towards her.

    You seem to have taken a well-meaning gesture and fretted it into some awful act towards yourself.
    Originally posted by tea lover
    No, you are mistaken. I have not taken this as an awful act towards me! How you have got that from what I have written baffles me!

    I am simply saying that my wife has explained very politely - and clearly - in a letter - that she has a lot going on in her life and is withdrawing from a Church Group, and she will not be attending any more Groups or meetings. And the leader she wrote it to, seems to think she can talk her around into still coming.

    My wife couldn't have been more clear. The woman is pushy and has proven this before, as I have explained in the OP. She is now saying 'come for a coffee and a chat' which is putting my wife in an awkward position again. Chat about what? About why she is leaving? She has already said. If my wife wanted or needed to talk about anything to her, she would.

    I'm afraid to say your wife has taken the wrong approach.

    If you get a cold call and say "Sorry, can't talk now" or "Now is not convenient" then they will keep phoning you. If you simply say "I'm not interested please don't contact me" you're much likely to be left alone.

    I remember when elections were going on and the local canvassers were coming round. I foolishly told them I hadn't decided which way to vote and found they kept 'popping by' and pestering me.

    As soon as I told them I wasn't going to vote for them they left me alone.

    Your wife should simply say she know longer wishes to attend and her reasons are private and will remain so which she hopes they will respect as she wishes no further discussion of it.

    May seem blunt but sometimes that's the only way.
    Originally posted by AndyBSG
    Seems like a plan, but there is no easy way to say it without offending the woman!

    And as I said, no matter what my wife had said, this pushy woman would have not taken no for an answer, and would have come up with reasons why she shouldn't leave the Group.

    I think your wife has just tried to be too nice about this. There was a thread on here a few weeks ago about learning to say no, and I think this is a case in point.

    It's not a crime not to want to attend a church group. Your wife can do as she pleases, and it doesn't matter if this other woman gets upset.
    Originally posted by ThemeOne
    Thank you
    As of 25th October 2016, I am not participating in this site. Until MSE sorts out the issue with insidious trouble-makers, it's no longer a place I wish to be. I can't be bothered with the constant battle with trolls.

    MSE is not a nice place to be at the moment, and hasn't been for a while now. So I'm outta here for the foreseeable future.
    • helcat26
    • By helcat26 18th Oct 16, 4:41 PM
    • 861 Posts
    • 2,271 Thanks
    helcat26
    Why can your wife not say "I am just not enjoying going to the group"


    It is a church not a cult be honest others may feel that way and they could change stuff
    • tea lover
    • By tea lover 18th Oct 16, 4:47 PM
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    tea lover
    My wife couldn't have been more clear.
    Originally posted by Peter333
    She really, really could.
    • Peter333
    • By Peter333 18th Oct 16, 4:47 PM
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    • 5,405 Thanks
    Peter333
    Why can your wife not say "I am just not enjoying going to the group"


    It is a church not a cult be honest others may feel that way and they could change stuff
    Originally posted by helcat26
    Yes that was an alternative of course, but as I said, if she HAD said this, the woman would have tried to remedy or fix it and said 'what can we do to fix this situation and so on.............'

    Saying she can't attend anything was the only option for my wife, as she KNEW the woman would try and get her to stay in the Group - or attend something else.

    I mean, she made it clear in her letter that she wasn't able to come to the Group - or anything else, and the woman still said 'come when you can' and 'ring me and we will meet and chat.' Meet? and chat?' What for? What about? My wife explained herself fully in her letter and said she would see her in Church soon. Makes me wonder if she even read the letter at all!
    As of 25th October 2016, I am not participating in this site. Until MSE sorts out the issue with insidious trouble-makers, it's no longer a place I wish to be. I can't be bothered with the constant battle with trolls.

    MSE is not a nice place to be at the moment, and hasn't been for a while now. So I'm outta here for the foreseeable future.
    • Peter333
    • By Peter333 18th Oct 16, 4:51 PM
    • 1,720 Posts
    • 5,405 Thanks
    Peter333
    She really, really could.
    Originally posted by tea lover
    No, she WAS very clear. That she wasn't coming back to the Group. Yet the woman doesn't see to be hearing it.

    What I am trying to get across is that no matter WHAT my wife had said, the woman would still have not taken no for an answer.

    She would still have tried to remedy it, to get her to stay.

    I wish I could get that through to people.
    Last edited by Peter333; 18-10-2016 at 4:53 PM.
    As of 25th October 2016, I am not participating in this site. Until MSE sorts out the issue with insidious trouble-makers, it's no longer a place I wish to be. I can't be bothered with the constant battle with trolls.

    MSE is not a nice place to be at the moment, and hasn't been for a while now. So I'm outta here for the foreseeable future.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 18th Oct 16, 4:53 PM
    • 11,449 Posts
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    Gloomendoom
    You could try sending another letter... only this time cut the letters out of various newspapers and magazines and stick them in to make the words.

    That should do the trick.
    Advice; it rhymes with mice. Advise; it rhymes with wise.
    • fairy lights
    • By fairy lights 18th Oct 16, 4:54 PM
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    fairy lights
    I don't know why she had to write the letter at all, she could have just stopped going and if asked about it say "Sorry, I'm just too busy at the moment"
    By sending the letter to the group leader it's probably sounds a bit like a cry for help to be honest, like she's incredibly stressed. I think any reasonably caring person would have acted the same way as the leader and offered to meet up for a chat.
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