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  • FIRST POST
    • emma_uk23
    • By emma_uk23 18th Oct 16, 11:33 AM
    • 3Posts
    • 3Thanks
    emma_uk23
    Carflow PCN
    • #1
    • 18th Oct 16, 11:33 AM
    Carflow PCN 18th Oct 16 at 11:33 AM
    Hello - I am a newbie and have spent most of my evening, reading with interest, many many posts (my eyes are feeling rather square!). I have learnt a lot but am still unsure as to where I stand with the PCN I have received from Carflow. I ask kindly for your experienced advice (I have read the Newbies post):
    Carflow have issued (in my name) a paring charge notice for overstaying a 60 min max free stay period in breach of the terms and conditions of the car park (by 29 mins).

    I am a breastfeeding mother and the overstay occurred because my 3 month old became upset on getting him back into the car, which resulted in me needing to feed him. I have appealed to Carflow to make them aware of this. They have rejected this and given me a code to appeal to POPLA. However, they have notified me that if I appeal to popla, I lose the opportunity to pay Carflow's discounted fine rate of £60 (rather than £100)... The site is at St Peter's Court car park. What I would like to know is, whether it is worth appealing. Whether breastfeeding my child is solely enough grounds to appeal.

    A copy of the sign is easily accessible in google images if you search 'chalfont st peters court parking sign'. The PCN I received was in my name and stupidly (I realise now) responded giving away that I was driver. The PCN also has a photo image of my car entering and exiting the car park court. I'm so upset and feel so silly. I certainly won't ever be using that car park again - Ive always felt strongly about supporting the local shops but will in future use the pay and display car park
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Oct 16, 12:04 PM
    • 10,991 Posts
    • 16,401 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 18th Oct 16, 12:04 PM
    • #2
    • 18th Oct 16, 12:04 PM
    Have you complained to the local retailers to ask them to intervene? One of them may be the principal contract holder with the PPC, or they might know who the managing agent is. These are the people at whom you need to aim your mitigating circumstances of being a breastfeeding mother - they have obligations to you under the Equality Act 2010.

    The mitigation will not work at POPLA, so you need to frame the POPLA appeal in legal and technical terms - all contained in advice and links in the newbies FAQ sticky, post #3 'How to Win at POPLA'. Also read the last 8-9 pages or so of the sticky 'POPLA Decisions' to give you an idea of what is currently succeeding at POPLA.

    You need to cover the following in your appeal:

    No Contract to manage parking
    No Locus Standi
    Signage
    Consumer Rights Act 2015
    BPA Code of Practice breaches
    Why Beavis doesn't apply in your parking event

    We also have some 'near template', ready appeal points which are all linked below (most are included anyway in the POPLA Decisions sticky).

    Signage

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71285691&postcount=2341

    Landowner Authority

    No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71287628&postcount=2343

    This may all seem overwhelming at this stage, especially with a newborn demanding lots of you attention, but you have a month to get your head around POPLA and to put together your first draft (most of it will be simple copy and pasting from the links given). Once you've got a draft together you can post it up for a quick scan (but given the size of current POPLA appeals, no one will be going through it word for word, that will need to be your job).

    So a two-pronged attack - retailers/managing agent complaints and POPLA appeal. Don't wait to start on your POPLA appeal pending response from your complaints, get on with that in parallel.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 18-10-2016 at 12:09 PM.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • emma_uk23
    • By emma_uk23 18th Oct 16, 12:52 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    emma_uk23
    • #3
    • 18th Oct 16, 12:52 PM
    • #3
    • 18th Oct 16, 12:52 PM
    Thank you Umkomaas for your helpful response, which I really appreciate. Yes, as you say, it does feel rather overwhelming and a lot for me to understand and get my head around. I will have another look properly tomorrow evening. I'm not sure I am likely to get anywhere with this to be honest so not feeling too confident. Just very upset about it all. Thank you so much for your time all the same and I will try my best to prepare a good draft.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 18th Oct 16, 1:02 PM
    • 36,467 Posts
    • 73,293 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 18th Oct 16, 1:02 PM
    • #4
    • 18th Oct 16, 1:02 PM
    Thank you Umkomaas for your helpful response, which I really appreciate. Yes, as you say, it does feel rather overwhelming and a lot for me to understand and get my head around. I will have another look properly tomorrow evening. I'm not sure I am likely to get anywhere with this to be honest so not feeling too confident. Just very upset about it all. Thank you so much for your time all the same and I will try my best to prepare a good draft.
    Originally posted by emma_uk23
    Rubbish. MSE has a vey good success rate at beating these scammers. Follow the advice and you shall prevail.

    Please read the most recent successful appeals from the POPLA Decisions thread and use all the points available as advised above.

    Please do contact the retailers and tell them you have protected characteristics in accordance with the Equality Act 2010.

    You should also contact your MP and Mrs May about this unregulated industry. There is a campaign at the moment that you should contribute to.


    This is the campaign, copied from a post by Coupon-Mad.

    This is a campaign of asking people to keep sending Theresa May actual hard copies of the trash they've been deluged with. Let her advisers' desks overflow with annoying paperwork re PPCs.

    No emails, all letters from genuine people pouring their hearts out. Write to your MP as well as Mrs May:

    https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/211923909-Why-not-write-to-your-MP

    The more the better, write it yourself if you are able and enclose copies of the threatograms and rubbish thrown at you.

    Do not do this by email - make your paperwork land with a thump on desks, just like it all landed in a very unwelcome way on your doormat.

    Apparently the DCLG are looking to make an announcement before the year end so let's make MP's and Mrs May aware that action needs to be strong. You can be sure that the BPA and IPC suits are lobbying Parliament and meeting their friends in suits.

    So let the consumers' voices be heard.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 18-10-2016 at 1:08 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Carthesis
    • By Carthesis 18th Oct 16, 1:14 PM
    • 454 Posts
    • 797 Thanks
    Carthesis
    • #5
    • 18th Oct 16, 1:14 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Oct 16, 1:14 PM
    I would also be contacting the BPA and complaining - in writing, in no uncertain terms - about the Equalities Act violation that one of their members is currently perpetrating.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/4 - note that pregnancy and maternity are on the list.

    What they are now continuing in is indirect discrimination - they have been made aware of your status under the Equalities Act, and by not making the appropriate reasonable adjustments the Act requires, they are now in violation of a proper, actual, Act of Parliament law (as differentiated from the made-up, unenforceable except in specific cases, psuedo-"laws" they claim you have broken).

    You may wish to point out to the retailer that, by not instructing their agent to cancel the charge in this regard, they are opening themselves up to joint liability if this should ever see court.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 18th Oct 16, 1:28 PM
    • 5,561 Posts
    • 4,272 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #6
    • 18th Oct 16, 1:28 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Oct 16, 1:28 PM
    Having been made aware of your protected characteristic under the Law, by refusing to make reasonable adjustments they open themselves to a claim for compensation for Disability Discrimation in the County Court.


    PoPLA should take this into account imo, but the don't. In fact, the current PoPLA regime is fast making itself irrelevant.


    However rest assured, a judge is likely to be far more sympathetic, so it is unlikely that they would take this to court, where you could lodge a counterclaim for discrimination.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Oct 16, 10:06 AM
    • 40,488 Posts
    • 52,383 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 19th Oct 16, 10:06 AM
    • #7
    • 19th Oct 16, 10:06 AM
    I'm not sure I am likely to get anywhere with this to be honest so not feeling too confident.
    Luckily, we are confident. YOU WILL NOT BE PAYING THIS.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

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