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  • FIRST POST
    • guestiee
    • By guestiee 18th Oct 16, 10:07 AM
    • 33Posts
    • 4Thanks
    guestiee
    Moved Home - Garage Electrics Issue
    • #1
    • 18th Oct 16, 10:07 AM
    Moved Home - Garage Electrics Issue 18th Oct 16 at 10:07 AM
    Hi all,


    Firstly I apologise for writing this in layman's terms. But I would appreciate any help you can give me?


    I have recently moved into a new house. In the garage there is a single RCD socket and a strip light that is fit for a history museum!


    The light works perfectly however, but the more modern RCD socket is dead, no power, will not reset, etc.


    I am confused why because the power cable comes in to the garage through the wall low down, it then enters the box that houses the RCD socket at about shoulder height and then a cable comes from this box straight to the light switch above it. Therefore, the light switch is getting power, but the RCD which is earlier in the line is not.


    Is this a case of replacing the RCD Socket? Or is there some clever troubleshooting I can try?


    Thanks in advance for your advice. It will be very kind.
Page 1
    • Fat Walt
    • By Fat Walt 18th Oct 16, 11:07 AM
    • 602 Posts
    • 327 Thanks
    Fat Walt
    • #2
    • 18th Oct 16, 11:07 AM
    • #2
    • 18th Oct 16, 11:07 AM
    Try putting a normal faceplate on instead of the rcd and plug something in. That way you'll know if you have power or not.
    • guestiee
    • By guestiee 18th Oct 16, 11:11 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    guestiee
    • #3
    • 18th Oct 16, 11:11 AM
    • #3
    • 18th Oct 16, 11:11 AM
    Thanks Walt. Would you think it is imperative to have a RCD in the garage? Or would a standard plug socket be safe?
    • TheCyclingProgrammer
    • By TheCyclingProgrammer 18th Oct 16, 11:20 AM
    • 1,931 Posts
    • 1,049 Thanks
    TheCyclingProgrammer
    • #4
    • 18th Oct 16, 11:20 AM
    • #4
    • 18th Oct 16, 11:20 AM
    Thanks Walt. Would you think it is imperative to have a RCD in the garage? Or would a standard plug socket be safe?
    Originally posted by guestiee
    Is there one protecting the circuit to the garage on the main CU in the house?
    • guestiee
    • By guestiee 18th Oct 16, 11:23 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    guestiee
    • #5
    • 18th Oct 16, 11:23 AM
    • #5
    • 18th Oct 16, 11:23 AM
    I believe so, but I will double check
    • Fat Walt
    • By Fat Walt 18th Oct 16, 11:24 AM
    • 602 Posts
    • 327 Thanks
    Fat Walt
    • #6
    • 18th Oct 16, 11:24 AM
    • #6
    • 18th Oct 16, 11:24 AM
    Thanks Walt. Would you think it is imperative to have a RCD in the garage? Or would a standard plug socket be safe?
    Originally posted by guestiee
    Determine this first.

    Is there one protecting the circuit to the garage on the main CU in the house?
    Originally posted by TheCyclingProgrammer
    You could buy a new rcb faceplate if not or an adaptor.
    • phoenix_w
    • By phoenix_w 18th Oct 16, 11:58 AM
    • 388 Posts
    • 324 Thanks
    phoenix_w
    • #7
    • 18th Oct 16, 11:58 AM
    • #7
    • 18th Oct 16, 11:58 AM
    If you have (or could borrow) a stud detector, these often can tell you if there is current through the cable supplying the socket. Or ask someone handy to check the wiring with a multi meter.
    • Guestiee
    • By Guestiee 18th Oct 16, 12:00 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Guestiee
    • #8
    • 18th Oct 16, 12:00 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Oct 16, 12:00 PM
    Thank you. I guess I assume that there is power as the cable subsequently continues to the light switch which works
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 18th Oct 16, 12:35 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 393 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    • #9
    • 18th Oct 16, 12:35 PM
    • #9
    • 18th Oct 16, 12:35 PM
    OH fitted a RCD socket in the garage for extra protection when using outdoor power/garden tools.
    • Risteard
    • By Risteard 18th Oct 16, 3:23 PM
    • 461 Posts
    • 142 Thanks
    Risteard
    Try putting a normal faceplate on instead of the rcd and plug something in. That way you'll know if you have power or not.
    Originally posted by Fat Walt
    That is horrendous advice to remove a safety device without knowing whether the wiring is actually RCD protected anyway. Do not even do this temporarily as a means of diagnosing it.

    Just ring an Electrician for God's sake.
    • benten69
    • By benten69 18th Oct 16, 4:08 PM
    • 226 Posts
    • 1,243 Thanks
    benten69
    That is horrendous advice to remove a safety device without knowing whether the wiring is actually RCD protected anyway. Do not even do this temporarily as a means of diagnosing it.

    Just ring an Electrician for God's sake.
    Originally posted by Risteard
    There is nothing wrong with removing the RCD as a TEMPORARY measure. RCD's are relatively new devices, not everyone and their dog died before they existed.

    However the BETTER option would be to use a multi-meter and check to see if the circuit wiring is live. If it is, then the problem is obviously with the face plate.

    The again, if the OP is asking here for basic electrical advice they probably don't have a multi-meter and your right, they should probably call someone who knows what they are doing.

    When I bought my house the previous owner had ran 6mm2 T&E (cooker cable basically) about 5cm underground in some plastic PVC piping. Not even under slabs, but in a flower bed bit by the side of the house. One sharp hit with a shovel would have cut it and seriously injured whoever was using the shovel.

    The cable then went into the garage to a fused spur, when you turned on the fused spur it would power the lights and the sockets.....so you couldn't use the sockets without the lights being on.

    Since buying the house I've replaced the 6mm2 T&E for some 10mm2 armoured cable, buried 2 foot underground, then some warning tape 1 foot above that, and finally back filled. Armoured cable runs into a dedicated consumer unit in the garage where there are dedicated circuits for the lights, sockets, radiators, and even the shed lights & shed sockets at the back of the garage.

    Been through all this before, and thought I may as well do it right if I'm going to do it. Took ages, but well worth it knowing that it is all above board and meets the necessary IET regs.
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    • Risteard
    • By Risteard 18th Oct 16, 4:29 PM
    • 461 Posts
    • 142 Thanks
    Risteard
    There is nothing wrong with removing the RCD as a TEMPORARY measure.
    Originally posted by benten69
    Yes there is. Whilst temporarily removed could be when an earth fault (or worse a person connected to the mains) occurs. Safety devices should not be removed - even temporarily.

    All socket outlets rated less than 32A require additional protection of a 30mA RCD.
    • benten69
    • By benten69 18th Oct 16, 10:48 PM
    • 226 Posts
    • 1,243 Thanks
    benten69
    Yes there is. Whilst temporarily removed could be when an earth fault (or worse a person connected to the mains) occurs. Safety devices should not be removed - even temporarily.

    All socket outlets rated less than 32A require additional protection of a 30mA RCD.
    Originally posted by Risteard
    Yes, and while it is removed I could win the lottery. Doesn't mean it will happen! Also, when you say "or worse, person connected to the mains" it just highlights you don't fully understand how an RCD operates.
    Last edited by benten69; 18-10-2016 at 10:52 PM.
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    • Risteard
    • By Risteard 18th Oct 16, 11:49 PM
    • 461 Posts
    • 142 Thanks
    Risteard
    Yes, and while it is removed I could win the lottery. Doesn't mean it will happen! Also, when you say "or worse, person connected to the mains" it just highlights you don't fully understand how an RCD operates.
    Originally posted by benten69
    I understand exactly how an RCD operates. It provides earth fault protection. A 30mA RCD provided for additional protection is there for protection of life. If a person is connected to the mains then they will present a return path for the current through the general mass of earth back to the star point of the transformer.

    So don't make a fool of yourself. I am a Principal Duty Holder, Qualified Supervisor and Qualified Certifier for an electrical contractor and also a JIB Graded Approved Electrician and a Technician Member of the Institution of Engineering and Technology. I understand how RCDs work.

    The presumption that it is unlikely that a fault or dangerous occurence will occur whilst a device is removed does not make it acceptable to remove a safety device. Such a cavalier attitude is unacceptable and if you were a worker doing this then you could find yourself answerable under the Electricity at Work Regulations as a duty holder.
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 19th Oct 16, 12:31 AM
    • 17,410 Posts
    • 13,979 Thanks
    wealdroam
    So don't make a fool of yourself. I am a Principal Duty Holder, Qualified Supervisor and Qualified Certifier for an electrical contractor and also a JIB Graded Approved Electrician and a Technician Member of the Institution of Engineering and Technology. I understand how RCDs work.
    Originally posted by Risteard
    And I could write that in any of my posts.

    I choose not to.
    • benten69
    • By benten69 19th Oct 16, 10:20 AM
    • 226 Posts
    • 1,243 Thanks
    benten69
    So don't make a fool of yourself. I am a Principal Duty Holder, Qualified Supervisor and Qualified Certifier for an electrical contractor and also a JIB Graded Approved Electrician and a Technician Member of the Institution of Engineering and Technology. I understand how RCDs work.
    Originally posted by Risteard

    Good for you being a mere electrician ....I'm a fully qualified Electrical Engineer BEng (Hons) working towards my chartership and a full member of the IET, not just a "Technician Member" with experience in development, design, test, comissioning & modification of topsides electrical equipment for the offshore Oil & Gas sector.

    Such a cavalier attitude is unacceptable and if you were a worker doing this then you could find yourself answerable under the Electricity at Work Regulations as a duty holder.
    Originally posted by Risteard
    Good thing I'm not a "worker" and you & your "workers" would be the ones working to my designs & asking me questions, as they do 99% of the time when they don't understand basic things.

    So you're the one who shouldn't make a fool of himself....

    Anyway, none of this bickering & game of "top trumps" is helping the OP.

    1 thing we do agree on is that if they are asking for basic advice like this, they should get someone else in to do the work.
    Last edited by benten69; 19-10-2016 at 10:31 AM.
    SPC9 #408 - £200.39 | SPC10 #408 - £95.69
    3-6 Month Emergency Fund Challenge #62 - 53% Complete
    Mortgage Sept '15: £161,250 | Oct '16: £157,050.37

    • Risteard
    • By Risteard 19th Oct 16, 12:47 PM
    • 461 Posts
    • 142 Thanks
    Risteard
    Good for you being a mere electrician ....I'm a fully qualified Electrical Engineer BEng (Hons) working towards my chartership and a full member of the IET
    Originally posted by benten69
    As you and I both know, that doesn't necessarily mean that you have any experience of electrical installation work whatsoever.

    1 thing we do agree on is that if they are asking for basic advice like this, they should get someone else in to do the work.
    by benten69
    Absolutely. Your first sensible comment yet.
    • benten69
    • By benten69 19th Oct 16, 1:06 PM
    • 226 Posts
    • 1,243 Thanks
    benten69
    As you and I both know, that doesn't necessarily mean that you have any experience of electrical installation work whatsoever.
    Originally posted by Risteard
    Fact is though, I do have experience during the test & commissioning stages of projects.
    SPC9 #408 - £200.39 | SPC10 #408 - £95.69
    3-6 Month Emergency Fund Challenge #62 - 53% Complete
    Mortgage Sept '15: £161,250 | Oct '16: £157,050.37

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