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    • Murlton
    • By Murlton 18th Oct 16, 8:47 AM
    • 44Posts
    • 14Thanks
    CPM Parking Charge for Unauthorised Parking
    • #1
    • 18th Oct 16, 8:47 AM
    CPM Parking Charge for Unauthorised Parking 18th Oct 16 at 8:47 AM
    Hi guys,

    First of all I'd just like to apologise for making yet another thread about probably a very similar situation to someone previously 'charged' by UK CPM. However, after reading many different posts and the NEWBIE thread I'm still unsure how exactly I should move forward with this.

    I've come to understand it's no longer a good idea to just out right ignore the 'invoice' as soon as you get it, this was always how I thought this should be handled. When did this change?

    So, the story.. I was looking for parking at my local Tesco Metro (located on a small piece of land that shares with two other stores, a loan shop and a restaurant) and the car park was full, so I parked outside the front of the restaurant (this is still on the car park, just not within a bay). This is a routine thing that happens, you'd be hard pressed to find a time or day when someone isn't parked there as there are often 2-3 cars parked in that area outside of a bay. Looking at the photo of my car it appears one of my wheels may have JUST been in a yellow hatched box, however I'm not sure if that's the problem or if it's just being out of a bay. Having received this letter I didn't think there were any signs showing the restrictions but it appears they do exist quite high up. Everyone I've spoken to about this has been surprised there were signs as each thought they didn't exist. Having looked on google maps, the signs were not present as of June 2016 so this must be a rather new thing they've put in place.

    Anyway, yes I was parked outside of a bay and yes I may have been slightly within a yellow hatched box, but I was not blocking any entrances and it was for a maximum or five minutes. The reason I've commented is because I'm not sure if I have a leg to stand on with this?

    Looking through the forums it seems the course of action required is to appeal using the generic IPC letter with the 8 points. This appeal will they most definitely be rejected, and then I should do what? Is that the point I begin ignoring them or should I appeal to the IAS first? Is there any point I should contact the restaurant I was parked outside of and see if they will cancel it?

    Many thanks guys and girls, sorry again if you've heard all this before. I just need a push in the right direction is all!

    Last edited by Murlton; 18-10-2016 at 10:10 AM.
Page 3
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 20th Sep 17, 10:19 PM
    • 16,677 Posts
    • 26,081 Thanks
    Civil Enforcement
    Sorry, but one very quick glance at your response to the LBC blows you out of the water. I'll just leave the clue above and leave you to work out the rest.

    We complain bitterly that Gladstones issue roboclaims with absolutely no due diligence as to the quality or content of them. We will not follow their example.

    I think I'm done for the night!
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 20-09-2017 at 10:52 PM.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Murlton
    • By Murlton 20th Sep 17, 11:34 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 14 Thanks

    I tried to write as much of it by myself as I could (first half) but when the template mentioned adding all the law talk about sueing them.. it was wayyy out of my league so I got the second half from a C-M response elsewhere! Thanks
    • Murlton
    • By Murlton 20th Sep 17, 11:43 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Okay, edited and reposted. Half is taken from an existing letter then modified.. and half is written in my own words!

    Gladstones Solicitors
    The Terrace, High Legh Park Golf Club,
    Warrington Road, Knutsford, Cheshire,
    WA16 6AA


    REF: xxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Dear Sirs

    Re: LETTER BEFORE COUNTY COURT CLAIM dated [12/09/2017]

    I am writing to acknowledge receipt of the above letter.

    As requested in the Letter Before Claim I recently received I have checked the Practice Direction and have argument with your claim that you are fully compliant with it. The letter you sent is incorrect in its statement and quite frankly I find it worrying that a legal department staffed by solicitors is unable to produce a Letter Before Claim that adheres to the Practice Direction. I would also like to include that I have received no legal training and yet I am the one having to explain what the Practice Direction deems a requirement from you. I would certainly be interested if the solicitor in charge of the legal department approved the Letter Before Claim that fails to meet the necessary legal requirements before it was sent out.

    I would like to request that you send me a fully compliant Letter Before Claim so I can deal with my own obligations under the Practice Direction. To ensure you are able to meet my request I have attached an extract of the Practice Direction dealing with the requirements for a Claimant's Letter Before Claim.

    Should you seek to proceed with a claim I will apply for it to be struck out, due to CPR Part 3.4:

    (a) that UK Car Park Management's statement of case will disclose no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim;
    (b) that the statement of case will be an abuse of the court!!!8217;s process or is otherwise likely to obstruct the just disposal of the proceedings; and
    (c) that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order.

    Since you have no cause of action against me as registered keeper, should you proceed with a claim I will file a counter-claim for not less than £500 in compensation for distress caused by your unwarranted demands arising from misuse of the data you obtained from the DVLA for one purpose, yet are now processing it for another purpose not covered by the KADOE regulations.

    I expect UK Car Park Management to now cancel this 'parking charge' and admit its mistake in attempting to misuse my data, and in trying to mislead me by suggesting that a registered keeper is liable for a non-POFA parking charge 'debt', and that I could be liable for escalated costs/legal fees. As you will be aware, the general costs rule in Small Claims is that there is no costs order.!

    However, in support of my own counter-claim, I must remind you that under CPR Rule 27.14(2)(g):!

    ''costs can be awarded where a party behaves unreasonably''.!

    I refer UK Car Park Management to paragraph 16 of the Practice Direction !!!8211; Pre-Action Conduct:!
    ''a party who has not complied with its pre-action obligations can be ordered to pay costs (even if the party has succeeded in its claim/defence) and there is also a power to remit/increase interest.''

    I expect to hear from you within 14 days to confirm that the charge is cancelled. Should you fail to cancel this PCN and/or pursue a baseless claim without supplying any evidence of any breach of a relevant contract or relevant obligation, or photographs, or the contract, or your basis for pursuing a registered keeper without the POFA 2012, you may consider this adequate notice of my intention to sue UK Car Park Management, for the significant distress your actions continue to cause me.

    All letters exchanged will be used in evidence in court.!

    Please do me the courtesy of reading and replying to this letter.

    Yours faithfully


    Extract from Practice Direction
    Annex A

    2. Claimant!!!8217;s letter before claim

    The claimant!!!8217;s letter should give concise details about the matter. This should enable the defendant to understand and investigate the issues without needing to request further information. The letter should include !!!8211;!

    (1) the claimant!!!8217;s full name and address;!
    (2) the basis on which the claim is made (i.e. why the claimant says the defendant is liable);!
    (3) a clear summary of the facts on which the claim is based;!
    (4) what the claimant wants from the defendant;!
    (5) if financial loss is claimed, an explanation of how the amount has been calculated; and!
    (6) details of any funding arrangement (within the meaning of rule 43.2(1)(k) of the CPR) that has been entered into by the claimant.!

    The letter should also !!!8211;!
    (1) list the essential documents on which the claimant intends to rely;!
    (2) set out the form of ADR (if any) that the claimant considers the most suitable and invite the defendant to agree to this;!
    (3) state the date by which the claimant considers it reasonable for a full response to be provided by the defendant; and!
    (4) identify and ask for copies of any relevant documents not in the claimant's possession and which the claimant wishes to see
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 21st Sep 17, 12:07 AM
    • 5,693 Posts
    • 4,416 Thanks
    Your mention of 'Practice Direction' and 'Annex A' is, I believe, outdated.

    A post by LOC123 a few days ago mentioned this:
    Lol, there is no "Annex B" to the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct. What are they talking about? (their used to be annexes to it, but not for a long time). They cannot claim to have complied with something which DOESN'T EXIST!
    Originally posted by Loadsofchildren123
    Not sure where you copied that from, but can you find a newer version?
    • Murlton
    • By Murlton 21st Sep 17, 12:23 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    I found it somewhere in a thread.. there are THAT many though that I can't seem to find it.

    There is this response by LOC I could amend instead:

    Would I just be better doing that?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Sep 17, 1:34 AM
    • 54,085 Posts
    • 67,752 Thanks
    Anything robust will do, that's taken from a recent example and not talking about Annex A.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • By 27th Oct 17, 7:30 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    the gladstone 3... reference
    I am also a fresh recipient of the infamous Gladstone letter with reference number starting with 3 and if I google the phone number it is pointing to a debt recovery plus landline.
    My case is that of a Gemini Parking operated closed area, where the parking "fine" states that I was parked with the wheels going outside my dedicated space. Same 160£ request.

    Anyone who is further ahead in the process that can advise what happens next?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 27th Oct 17, 7:37 PM
    • 5,693 Posts
    • 4,416 Thanks
    I am also a fresh recipient of the infamous Gladstone letter with reference number starting with 3 and if I google the phone number it is pointing to a debt recovery plus landline.
    My case is that of a Gemini Parking operated closed area, where the parking "fine" states that I was parked with the wheels going outside my dedicated space. Same 160£ request.

    Anyone who is further ahead in the process that can advise what happens next?
    Originally posted by
    You really need to start your own thread.

    Experience has shown that trying to deal with two different posters about two different events will only lead to confusion.

    Have a read of the NEWBIES FAQ thread before starting your own thread.

    When you have done that please come back here and delete your post above.
    • Murlton
    • By Murlton 24th Nov 17, 2:23 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 14 Thanks

    Please could you take a look at the response I've received from Gladstones? This a response to my letter 6 posts up (which was a response to their inadequate LBCCC).

    Any advice on what I should do next?
    • Murlton
    • By Murlton 24th Nov 17, 2:32 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    By the way.. I have recently come across some evidence for my case. In the IPC code of practice it states that when a change in parking regulations is made then additional/temporary signage should be included at the entrance of the car park so frequent users are informed of the new rules (something along those lines, I don't have it with me right now). I have a letter from a member of the council who confirms they did put up additional signage at the entrance.. THREE weeks after I got my fine!

    Surely this is a big win for my eventual defence?
    • completelyfubar
    • By completelyfubar 24th Nov 17, 5:03 PM
    • 71 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Mate, they never put up additional signs at the entrance... he put an extra one on his wall 'near' the entrance. When did the council say that the sign went up?
    I have a picture from November last year with no additional signage and certainly nothing at the entrance where it would be easily seen.
    • Murlton
    • By Murlton 24th Nov 17, 6:45 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    He put one up on the brick pillar at the entrance, might have even been two! The point still remains however that this wasnt done til weeks after many tickets had been dished out
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 24th Nov 17, 7:01 PM
    • 2,069 Posts
    • 3,680 Thanks
    Please could you take a look at the response I've received from Gladstones? This a response to my letter 6 posts up (which was a response to their inadequate LBCCC).
    This is just a rehash of their standard roboclaim which basically says

    1. Plenty of signs - though when the pics arrive there weren't
    2. This is the sign we had up - but the pics show different signs
    3. We can offer a contract - which isn't usually supported by the letter of authority if they produce one
    4. Because you didn't pay us the £xxx we had to spend a ridiculous amount chasing it.

    Just have a go at the signs and their letter of authority. And get the pics off them early or take your own. It all comes down to the signs and the content of the signs.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • Curly girly
    • By Curly girly 24th Nov 17, 7:24 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Curly girly
    I also got a ticket there and I'm fighting it. The additional signage went up on 28th October after the local authority got involved.
    • completelyfubar
    • By completelyfubar 27th Nov 17, 9:23 AM
    • 71 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Hi peeps, do you know how long the additional signs were up for?
    If they went up on the 28th Oct then that's weeks after my dates but I didn't get my NTK until November and the signs were gone when I went to have a look.
    Last edited by completelyfubar; 27-11-2017 at 9:42 AM.
    • JScott1983
    • By JScott1983 20th Feb 18, 1:25 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Parking Charge
    Hi Guys,

    I’m now in a similar position to Multron post of last April..
    Had at least Three letters from a debt recovery agency, usual threatening spiel so I just ignored!

    I too now have a Gladstones solicitor’s letter starting with…

    We have been instructed by SHIELD SECURITY SERVICES LTD in relation to the above debt. Our client now has the option to commence proceedings in the appropriate civil court. This right exists for six years from the date of the parking charge although it’s our clients preference to resolve this matter as soon as possible. Our client would therefore like to provide you with this opportunity to contact their agent (Debt Recovery Plus) to make the full payment in sum of £149 thereby avoiding any future court action blah, blah, blah……

    I fully understand that I need to create a defense to this letter but I’m a little lost on which template to use?
    My letter reference doesn’t start with a 1 or 3, it starts with a 4 so wondered if you guys could point me in the right direction
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 20th Feb 18, 1:38 PM
    • 8,212 Posts
    • 7,533 Thanks
    The Deep
    Mr Scott, please start your own thread.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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