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  • FIRST POST
    • Murlton
    • By Murlton 18th Oct 16, 8:47 AM
    • 11Posts
    • 4Thanks
    Murlton
    CPM Parking Charge for Unauthorised Parking
    • #1
    • 18th Oct 16, 8:47 AM
    CPM Parking Charge for Unauthorised Parking 18th Oct 16 at 8:47 AM
    Hi guys,

    First of all I'd just like to apologise for making yet another thread about probably a very similar situation to someone previously 'charged' by UK CPM. However, after reading many different posts and the NEWBIE thread I'm still unsure how exactly I should move forward with this.

    I've come to understand it's no longer a good idea to just out right ignore the 'invoice' as soon as you get it, this was always how I thought this should be handled. When did this change?

    So, the story.. I was looking for parking at my local Tesco Metro (located on a small piece of land that shares with two other stores, a loan shop and a restaurant) and the car park was full, so I parked outside the front of the restaurant (this is still on the car park, just not within a bay). This is a routine thing that happens, you'd be hard pressed to find a time or day when someone isn't parked there as there are often 2-3 cars parked in that area outside of a bay. Looking at the photo of my car it appears one of my wheels may have JUST been in a yellow hatched box, however I'm not sure if that's the problem or if it's just being out of a bay. Having received this letter I didn't think there were any signs showing the restrictions but it appears they do exist quite high up. Everyone I've spoken to about this has been surprised there were signs as each thought they didn't exist. Having looked on google maps, the signs were not present as of June 2016 so this must be a rather new thing they've put in place.

    Anyway, yes I was parked outside of a bay and yes I may have been slightly within a yellow hatched box, but I was not blocking any entrances and it was for a maximum or five minutes. The reason I've commented is because I'm not sure if I have a leg to stand on with this?

    Looking through the forums it seems the course of action required is to appeal using the generic IPC letter with the 8 points. This appeal will they most definitely be rejected, and then I should do what? Is that the point I begin ignoring them or should I appeal to the IAS first? Is there any point I should contact the restaurant I was parked outside of and see if they will cancel it?

    Many thanks guys and girls, sorry again if you've heard all this before. I just need a push in the right direction is all!

    Thanks
    Last edited by Murlton; 18-10-2016 at 10:10 AM.
Page 1
    • Carthesis
    • By Carthesis 18th Oct 16, 10:15 AM
    • 445 Posts
    • 783 Thanks
    Carthesis
    • #2
    • 18th Oct 16, 10:15 AM
    • #2
    • 18th Oct 16, 10:15 AM
    Yes, contact the restaurant.

    Yes, appeal using the generic IPC letter - you might want to tweak the wording a little to correspond to your circumstances, but *DO NOT REVEAL THE DRIVER IDENTITY!**

    Yes, they'll reject it.

    No, probably little point appealling to IAS in your case.

    Yes, ignore ignore ignore after the official appeal. Worry about it when you get a Letter from the County Court, if ever.
    • Murlton
    • By Murlton 18th Oct 16, 10:22 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Murlton
    • #3
    • 18th Oct 16, 10:22 AM
    • #3
    • 18th Oct 16, 10:22 AM
    Hi Carthesis, thanks for the reply!

    What angle should I approach the restaurant with? Do I just tell them I didn't realise, it's an honest mistake and could they please try to revoke it? Or should I get all legal with them?

    Thanks again
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 18th Oct 16, 10:44 AM
    • 994 Posts
    • 908 Thanks
    DoaM
    • #4
    • 18th Oct 16, 10:44 AM
    • #4
    • 18th Oct 16, 10:44 AM
    Do you (or have you ever) used that restaurant? If you've been a customer then they may be more inclined to help.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Murlton
    • By Murlton 18th Oct 16, 12:18 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Murlton
    • #5
    • 18th Oct 16, 12:18 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Oct 16, 12:18 PM
    Unfortunately no, I have never eaten there. It's a fairly new establishment. I can't see them just being okay with letting me off, but I'll try.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Oct 16, 2:08 PM
    • 40,408 Posts
    • 52,292 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 18th Oct 16, 2:08 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Oct 16, 2:08 PM
    Looking through the forums it seems the course of action required is to appeal using the generic IPC letter with the 8 points. This appeal will they most definitely be rejected, and then I should do what?
    Nothing. It's just better not to ignore it, we find, not look like a victim with their head in the sand.

    Is that the point I begin ignoring them
    Yes, and ignore debt collector letters! Come back if you get a claim (rare) or solicitor's letter.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Murlton
    • By Murlton 18th Oct 16, 5:18 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Murlton
    • #7
    • 18th Oct 16, 5:18 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Oct 16, 5:18 PM
    So, I went to the restaurant and they claimed it's nothing to do with them and I should take my issue up with Tesco next door. So I spoke to the staff in Tesco and they claimed the restaurant owner is the one doing this! Basically lot's of finger pointing going on!

    Funnily enough, when I was speaking to the (presumed) manager of the restaurant, someone interrupted us recording on his phone asking if the manager had any affiliation with the restaurant.. which he denied. When asked a second time if he has anything to do with the restaurant at all, he again replied no! So this tells me something dodgey is going on!

    I checked the signs at Tesco and they have printed out A4 pieces of paper with a bit of text on and stuck these to some of the windows, I was surprised to hear they'd been put up months ago.. don't recall ever seeing them!

    Anyway, looks like I'll have to go through with the appeal then, by the way the Tesco staff said anyone who's got one has just ignored it. Why is this opposed compared to doing an appeal you know will get rejected? How does it affect the process differently? If anything, by opening up communication with them am I not just giving them someone to bother?

    Thanks for all the responses so far guys
    • Murlton
    • By Murlton 18th Oct 16, 6:42 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Murlton
    • #8
    • 18th Oct 16, 6:42 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Oct 16, 6:42 PM
    The IPC template letter I should send.. should it more or less be a direct copy and paste job? Or should I detail it towards my situation a bit? One argument I have is the first picture is of my number plate up close and nothing else, the second is of the shop I'm parked next to and you can't even see my car as it's too dark. Should I claim the photo evidence isn't sufficient enough?

    Thanks
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 18th Oct 16, 6:49 PM
    • 2,241 Posts
    • 2,724 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    • #9
    • 18th Oct 16, 6:49 PM
    • #9
    • 18th Oct 16, 6:49 PM
    I would not alter it .....

    not that it matters ....

    they will refuse it ....

    if you had an exemption note from the queen ..... they would still refuse it

    Ralph
    • Murlton
    • By Murlton 18th Oct 16, 7:08 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Murlton
    Hi Ralph, thanks for the reply.

    Can I ask why it's deemed beneficial to appeal before you start ignoring them?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Oct 16, 12:15 PM
    • 40,408 Posts
    • 52,292 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    As I said already:

    It's just better not to ignore it, we find, not look like a victim with their head in the sand.
    Some parking firms sue and we find many of those parking firms are more likely to cherry-pick ignorers, in the hope that person panics and pays or ignores & gets a CCJ by default.

    Secondly, if a case ever goes to a small claim (defendable!) then a Judge will be more impressed with a Defendant who reasonably responded early on, stating from the outset that they are not liable as the keeper of the car and asking for further information, which, if the PPC doesn't provide it, makes THEM look unreasonable, which isn't difficult with this industry! Maintain that moral high ground then ignore daft debt collector missives!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Fclarke
    • By Fclarke 24th Oct 16, 12:37 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Fclarke
    Would this be in an area in Blackburn by any chance? I've just received one of these letters this morning. Apparently the contravention took place on 50th October and the letter was sent out on 11th October saying I've got 14 days to pay. The picture shows that I'm not actually parked in the yellow box, so not sure I've actually parked incorrectly. Incidentally, I've never noticed any signs either. Going to have another look next time I go down. Have you heard any more? Did you appeal?
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 24th Oct 16, 1:12 PM
    • 36,453 Posts
    • 73,273 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Would this be in an area in Blackburn by any chance? I've just received one of these letters this morning. Apparently the contravention took place on 50th October and the letter was sent out on 11th October saying I've got 14 days to pay. The picture shows that I'm not actually parked in the yellow box, so not sure I've actually parked incorrectly. Incidentally, I've never noticed any signs either. Going to have another look next time I go down. Have you heard any more? Did you appeal?
    Originally posted by Fclarke
    50th of October? *confused*

    Your best bet is to read the Sticky thread for NEWBIES, send the relevant template letter you will find there, and start your own thread if you need further help.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
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    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Oct 16, 3:28 PM
    • 40,408 Posts
    • 52,292 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Would this be in an area in Blackburn by any chance? I've just received one of these letters this morning. Apparently the contravention took place on xxth October and the letter was sent out on 11th October saying I've got 14 days to pay.

    The picture shows that I'm not actually parked in the yellow box, so not sure I've actually parked incorrectly. Incidentally, I've never noticed any signs either. Going to have another look next time I go down. Have you heard any more? Did you appeal?
    Originally posted by Fclarke
    Just read the NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST' thread, first. It's near the top.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Murlton
    • By Murlton 16th Nov 16, 6:48 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Murlton
    Quick update.

    After huge backlash from the local community since 100s of people are getting these PCNs suddenly the signs on the car park have changed, they have now added signs to the entrance! Is this something you can use in a defence? Clearly they didn't think the signs were clear enough, so they added more in a better place!

    However, they have ignored my initial appeal and since I didn't use any special delivery that proves I sent them a letter.. I'm short on appeal proof! Should I resend the letter with proof from the post office, or with recorded delivery?
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 16th Nov 16, 7:05 PM
    • 36,453 Posts
    • 73,273 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Quick update.

    After huge backlash from the local community since 100s of people are getting these PCNs suddenly the signs on the car park have changed, they have now added signs to the entrance! Is this something you can use in a defence? Clearly they didn't think the signs were clear enough, so they added more in a better place!

    However, they have ignored my initial appeal and since I didn't use any special delivery that proves I sent them a letter.. I'm short on appeal proof! Should I resend the letter with proof from the post office, or with recorded delivery?
    Originally posted by Murlton
    The NEWBIES thread tells you to send from a Post Office counter, first class , and obtain a free proof of posting. If this is what you did then you have no problem as a letter is lawfully deemed to have been delivered by day 2.

    You shouldn't send anything recorded or special delivery as they could refuse to sign for it and thus have proof it was never delivered.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Murlton
    • By Murlton 16th Nov 16, 7:11 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Murlton
    Thanks Fruitcake! In that case I'll reprint the letter and send it them the correct way this time! Thanks!
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 16th Nov 16, 7:15 PM
    • 36,453 Posts
    • 73,273 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Thanks Fruitcake! In that case I'll reprint the letter and send it them the correct way this time! Thanks!
    Originally posted by Murlton
    I suggest that you say you are sending this as a curtesy as they appear to have lost the original since you haven't had a reply. Tell them not to lose this one.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
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