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  • FIRST POST
    • davidious
    • By davidious 17th Oct 16, 1:47 PM
    • 124Posts
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    davidious
    Bad Diesel from Sainsbury In Van How to prove it ?
    • #1
    • 17th Oct 16, 1:47 PM
    Bad Diesel from Sainsbury In Van How to prove it ? 17th Oct 16 at 1:47 PM
    A Sainsbury petrol station we believe has sold us Bad Diesel,
    But we need to prove as the Official line is it never made to the Pumps.

    We having Black smoke on start up and Exhaust is covered.


    http://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/news/diesel-problems-for-isle-of-wight-drivers-96493.aspx
    Aaron Dowden, petrol station manager at Sainsbury's Newport, said: "It was discovered by the supplier that the flash point of the diesel was too low and the fuel was not delivered.


    Which would cause the issues we are having.

    Any advice
Page 1
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 17th Oct 16, 1:50 PM
    • 8,635 Posts
    • 5,662 Thanks
    neilmcl
    • #2
    • 17th Oct 16, 1:50 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Oct 16, 1:50 PM
    Have you contacted anyone from Sainsburys?

    The only way to prove that you have "bad diesel" is to get a sample and have it examined.
    • davidious
    • By davidious 17th Oct 16, 1:55 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    davidious
    • #3
    • 17th Oct 16, 1:55 PM
    • #3
    • 17th Oct 16, 1:55 PM
    Spoke to the Station Manager he sticking to the story that it never made it to the Pumps. though a staff member gave something away before hand that it was sludge at the bottom of the empty tanks.

    Sainsbury care line wants us to prove it.

    Getting a Sample is no problem it is where we go to get it examined.
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 17th Oct 16, 1:58 PM
    • 2,584 Posts
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    George Michael
    • #4
    • 17th Oct 16, 1:58 PM
    • #4
    • 17th Oct 16, 1:58 PM
    We having Black smoke on start up and Exhaust is covered.
    Originally posted by davidious
    How soon after filling up did the problem start?
    • davidious
    • By davidious 17th Oct 16, 2:05 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    davidious
    • #5
    • 17th Oct 16, 2:05 PM
    • #5
    • 17th Oct 16, 2:05 PM
    Drove the Van home Nightime etc
    The next day we noticed it when we took the Van out.

    Recently had a nice new stainless exhaust fitted and was working wonderfully before hand. Exhaust is now covered.
    Last edited by davidious; 17-10-2016 at 2:08 PM.
    • nickcc
    • By nickcc 17th Oct 16, 2:09 PM
    • 1,545 Posts
    • 654 Thanks
    nickcc
    • #6
    • 17th Oct 16, 2:09 PM
    • #6
    • 17th Oct 16, 2:09 PM
    If the flash point was too low then it must have been contaminated with petrol. The only thing you can do is to have a sample taken and have it tested, this you will have to pay for and it must be a controlled sample as anyone can add petrol either to your tank or to the sample. If there are no other reports of contaminated fuel from where you filled up then it's very unlikely that Sainsburys will admit liability.

    Black smoke is usually caused by unburnt fuel and can be caused by faulty injectors, blocked air filter, faulty injection pump, turbo failure or intercooler inlet pipe split, could any of these have been to blame ?
    • davidious
    • By davidious 17th Oct 16, 2:15 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    davidious
    • #7
    • 17th Oct 16, 2:15 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Oct 16, 2:15 PM
    If the flash point was too low then it must have been contaminated with petrol. The only thing you can do is to have a sample taken and have it tested, this you will have to pay for and it must be a controlled sample as anyone can add petrol either to your tank or to the sample. If there are no other reports of contaminated fuel from where you filled up then it's very unlikely that Sainsburys will admit liability.

    Black smoke is usually caused by unburnt fuel and can be caused by faulty injectors, blocked air filter, faulty injection pump, turbo failure or intercooler inlet pipe split, could any of these have been to blame ?
    Originally posted by nickcc
    No Turbo 2.4L

    Injectors have been replaced recently so has the Injection Pump including Air Filter etc with New Volkswagen Parts and the Van was working like dream recently.
    Only since we filled up we have had problems.

    How would I get a Controlled sample ?
    Last edited by davidious; 17-10-2016 at 2:18 PM.
    • nickcc
    • By nickcc 17th Oct 16, 2:28 PM
    • 1,545 Posts
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    nickcc
    • #8
    • 17th Oct 16, 2:28 PM
    • #8
    • 17th Oct 16, 2:28 PM
    No Turbo 2.4L

    Injectors have been replaced recently so has the Injection Pump including Air Filter etc with New Volkswagen Parts and the Van was working like dream recently.
    Only since we filled up we have had problems.

    How would I get a Controlled sample ?
    Originally posted by davidious
    Have a word with trading standards/citizens advice and they should know of a local lab that can carry out a flash test and density test of the fuel. All oil company distribution terminals have the test equipment but they are unlikely to carry out the test for you.
    • mvteng
    • By mvteng 17th Oct 16, 2:52 PM
    • 451 Posts
    • 245 Thanks
    mvteng
    • #9
    • 17th Oct 16, 2:52 PM
    • #9
    • 17th Oct 16, 2:52 PM
    I had an issue with bad fuel from Shell.


    Trading Standards showed no interest whatsoever.


    Shell eventually passed the matter to their insurance company.


    You need to be pro-active.


    I eventually had my sample analysed by my local University (who happened to have a petroleum oil department). they produced a report that confirmed the contaminated petrol, & once this was passed to Shells insurers, they paid my garage costs.


    Hope this helps
    • davidious
    • By davidious 17th Oct 16, 9:35 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    davidious
    Garage is testing it on Wednesday.

    Looks like I am in for a battle.
    • photome
    • By photome 18th Oct 16, 7:21 AM
    • 12,003 Posts
    • 7,515 Thanks
    photome
    Garage is testing it on Wednesday.

    Looks like I am in for a battle.
    Originally posted by davidious
    What are they testing?

    If its from your tank, how do you prove you didnt contaminate it.

    If its from anywhere else , hasnt it been too long

    just asking
    • nickcc
    • By nickcc 18th Oct 16, 8:57 AM
    • 1,545 Posts
    • 654 Thanks
    nickcc
    As I posted earlier getting a controlled sample will be your downfall. Presumably the filling station tanks will have been replenished so no point testing that sample and the sample out of your vehicle could have been contaminated either before you filled up or after. Incidentally all storage tanks have some form of sediment/sludge/water in the tank bottoms but this could cause problems with your fuel filter and in no way lower the fuels flash point.
    • davidious
    • By davidious 31st Oct 16, 6:22 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    davidious

    Here is copy of the report I got done. When it comes to cases like these it comes down to the balance probabilities.
    I if needed could prove I did not fill up anywhere between the 13th and 21st if needed.

    Articles relating to it
    http://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/news/diesel-problems-for-isle-of-wight-drivers-96493.aspx



    http://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/news/diesel-problems-for-isle-of-wight-drivers-96493.aspx
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 31st Oct 16, 6:32 PM
    • 12,137 Posts
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    AdrianC
    That report doesn't say much apart from "there's some dirt" - with no indication of where that came from. It could have been from a grubby jerrycan.

    All diesel vehicles have filters in line before the injectors and the high pressure pump anyway.
    • davidious
    • By davidious 31st Oct 16, 6:35 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    davidious
    we never had any problems till I filled up the actual report has my Registration which I have hidden from this.

    "Engine builders and fuel injection equipment manufacturers have found that the particles greater than 4 microns and greater than 6 microns are particularly critical to the durability of the fuel injection system."

    "World Wide Fuel Charter that fuel supplied to engines meet the ISO 4406 code of 18/16/13 maximum for respectively 4, 6, and 14 micron particle sizes."

    http://howcleanisyouroil.com/DIESEL-FUEL-OIL
    Last edited by davidious; 31-10-2016 at 6:37 PM.
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 31st Oct 16, 8:00 PM
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    shaun from Africa
    I if needed could prove I did not fill up anywhere between the 13th and 21st if needed.
    Originally posted by davidious

    I'm not trying to be funny but how on earth could you prove that you didn't put any more fuel in your car between the dates mentioned?
    • Lomast
    • By Lomast 31st Oct 16, 8:33 PM
    • 318 Posts
    • 224 Thanks
    Lomast
    The sample is from your fuel tank though which is going to have all manor of impurities in it. so its not conclusive it was the fuel from the garage that caused it, I think you are going to have an uphill struggle.

    • davidious
    • By davidious 31st Oct 16, 9:21 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    davidious
    I'm not trying to be funny but how on earth could you prove that you didn't put any more fuel in your car between the dates mentioned?
    Originally posted by shaun from Africa
    I live on the Isle of Wight there is a very limited amount of petrol stations I could of filled up at. As well proof the Van didn't leave the island. Along with cash withdrawals and CC transactions. (All my petrol station vists have been put on a card)

    Considering I filled up £40.60 on the 12th October. Combined with the Fuel Drain. -'

    On the balance of probabilities I could prove I didn't put any more fuel in.

    Obviously someone else could of put some diesel in a can for me but what would be the point of that. How would I know if the new diesel would be contaminated or not or even dilute the diesel currently in my Tank and give a negative reading.

    Also all petrol stations on the island use the same supplier.
    I also didn't put petrol in the Tank and test would of shown that up and it didn't show petrol contamination.
    • societys child
    • By societys child 1st Nov 16, 9:30 AM
    • 3,705 Posts
    • 3,663 Thanks
    societys child
    I live on the Isle of Wight there is a very limited amount of petrol stations I could of filled up at. As well proof the Van didn't leave the island. Along with cash withdrawals and CC transactions. (All my petrol station vists have been put on a card)

    Considering I filled up £40.60 on the 12th October. Combined with the Fuel Drain. -'

    On the balance of probabilities I could prove I didn't put any more fuel in.

    Obviously someone else could of put some diesel in a can for me but what would be the point of that. How would I know if the new diesel would be contaminated or not or even dilute the diesel currently in my Tank and give a negative reading.

    Also all petrol stations on the island use the same supplier.
    I also didn't put petrol in the Tank and test would of shown that up and it didn't show petrol contamination.
    Originally posted by davidious
    Have their been any other reports of "bad diesel" sold at the same station? You'd expect others to be having the same problem.

    • Head The Ball
    • By Head The Ball 1st Nov 16, 6:02 PM
    • 1,804 Posts
    • 3,831 Thanks
    Head The Ball
    ..I think you are going to have an uphill struggle.
    Originally posted by Lomast
    He might struggle on the flat too with dodgy diesel in his tank.

    When I was growing up plastic surgery was a bit of a taboo subject. These days if you mention botox no one raises an eyebrow.
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