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    • myotai
    • By myotai 17th Oct 16, 12:17 PM
    • 68Posts
    • 6Thanks
    myotai
    Mortgage in both names
    • #1
    • 17th Oct 16, 12:17 PM
    Mortgage in both names 17th Oct 16 at 12:17 PM
    Hello everyone,

    Quick summary:

    Bought house in 2007 - mortgage and deeds oin both names of me and partner at the time

    We separated in 2010

    No idea where she is and no contact since.

    I married again and still live in property with wif and son

    From the inception of mortgage I have made ALL payments

    Now I am told I cannot sell, take a payment break or even re-mortgage without a signature from my ex partner. BUT she despite having walked away and never contributed anything is entitled to half of the property's worth.

    Two questions...
    1. Please tell me this cannot be true. To walk away and still make a profit?
    2. What are my options?

    Thanks in advance!

    M...
Page 2
    • myotai
    • By myotai 17th Oct 16, 2:51 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    myotai
    Are you being deliberately obtuse?

    I'm going to ask one last time, how much equity is in the property?
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    What a lovely manner you have - I am an EXTREMELY busy nurse and have limited time to reply.

    To answer your question, around 50k
    • myotai
    • By myotai 17th Oct 16, 2:53 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    myotai
    Bag a bloke who is daft enough to let you own half a property despite according to him, having no income, causing him to pay all the mortgage.

    Not many out there! She got lucky.

    Why do you think she SHOULDNT be entitled to half of the equity in a property she owns? She owns it as well as you. Its not yours alone, its BOTH of yours. You did that, she didn't do it by herself.

    YOU can't sell it, as it doesn't belong to you, you BOTH could sell it as it belongs to you BOTH.
    Originally posted by marliepanda
    Brilliant!!!!
    • macca1974
    • By macca1974 17th Oct 16, 2:58 PM
    • 178 Posts
    • 156 Thanks
    macca1974
    Regardless of the morality of it all, you are where you are. So, the only thing to do is work out what is the best solution for all concerned.

    I would probably

    1 - Get a couple of estate agents to come in and value the property
    2 - Contact NRAM and ask them what the current outstanding balance is on the mortgage (including any exit penalties).
    3 - Take 2 away from one to work out what your equity is.

    Once you know how much equity is in there you can then make a decision. I would probably go to see a solicitor and see if you can get 30 minutes for free. Explain the situation and find out an estimate for legal costs if you tried to force the sale. I have read on here I'm sure that it can be as much as £30K...But I might be wrong.

    You can then make a decision about what the best course of action is. Be that take it to court and try to force a sale, or bite the bullet and track her down and make her an offer.

    It isn't a great situation but you are where you are. It may well be btw, that if you had gone for a re-mortgage in 2010 (when the new rules about mortgage lending were in) that you couldn't have got a mortgage on your sole income anyway.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 17th Oct 16, 3:01 PM
    • 8,873 Posts
    • 11,889 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    What a lovely manner you have - I am an EXTREMELY busy nurse and have limited time to reply.

    To answer your question, around 50k
    Originally posted by myotai
    So busy that you don't have time to give answers to the questions asked yet do have enough time to rant about your ex and get your knickers in a twist.

    A 50/50 split of the equity is going to be the starting point since you are joint owners. I'm not sure why you are struggling to comprehend this.

    Since this is an interest only mortgage you've not actually contributed anything towards that £50k equity, that £50k equity is purely down to the market rising wherever it is this property is located. In other words you haven't earned it.

    If you had sorted this out in 2010 you would have got to keep all the equity for yourself but you didn't. If you'd sorted out back in 2013 when, according to you, there was only a few thousand in equity, you would now get to keep most of the £50k for yourself but you didn't.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4836587

    Why didn't you sort it out sooner? Is it because you can't get a repayment mortgage?
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • myotai
    • By myotai 17th Oct 16, 3:03 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    myotai
    Thanks Macca1974 - thats helpful

    The irony is that the decision re the mortgage must have been made on my income (mainly) as she was only earning around 8k and I was on five times that. I have a gut feeling that there was something missold as how could they expect her to have sustained payments if I had been the one who bailed out of responsibility for the mortgage?
    • myotai
    • By myotai 17th Oct 16, 3:05 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    myotai
    So busy that you don't have time to give answers to the questions asked yet do have enough time to rant about your ex and get your knickers in a twist.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    Oh dear!
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 17th Oct 16, 3:06 PM
    • 3,600 Posts
    • 7,082 Thanks
    marliepanda
    Thanks Macca1974 - thats helpful

    The irony is that the decision re the mortgage must have been made on my income (mainly) as she was only earning around 8k and I was on five times that. I have a gut feeling that there was something missold as how could they expect her to have sustained payments if I had been the one who bailed out of responsibility for the mortgage?
    Originally posted by myotai
    Of course it wasn't missold.

    You as a couple could afford it. The mortgage was based on both of your incomes combined.

    You as a couple own it.

    You as a couple are in charge of paying the mortgage.

    If you bailed, she would have to sell.

    There is nothing ironic about buying as a couple with mismatched incomes. Stop thinking of it as you alone, it is you and your ex whether you like it or not.
    Suvery Earnings 2016 - £188
    • myotai
    • By myotai 17th Oct 16, 3:11 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    myotai
    Either way my ex partner (I am tempted to say 'she' but there are some sensitive souls would would interpret that as misogynistic) has just walked away without any come back at all.

    Still responsible - on paper maybe but probably hasn't given the property a second thought for years.

    Also has no fear of being called to account, so long as I keep paying the mortgage

    forgive me if this all seems a little surreal.

    But, if my confusion and disbelief is going to be met with ridicule and scorn I might as well just move on to another forum where (hopefully) I'd get a more mature response.

    ps. I have managed to grab a short break from work - thats why I have ALL this time on my hands!
    • myotai
    • By myotai 17th Oct 16, 3:21 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    myotai
    So the moral of the story kids is to get your finances sorted out when the relationship ends, don't bury your head in the sand for 6 years.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    'Kids'...what a very interesting word to use, do you consider yourself a 'parent' to other forum users?

    If I had the impetus to describe those 6 years I would - you might even grasp a hint of an answer to your question. But not to you 'Pixie', not to you. One day you too might be able to find out for yourself...I hope not though I really do.

    Thanks for your 'advice'......you have taught me a lot this afternoon.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 17th Oct 16, 3:22 PM
    • 3,600 Posts
    • 7,082 Thanks
    marliepanda
    Either way my ex partner (I am tempted to say 'she' but there are some sensitive souls would would interpret that as misogynistic) has just walked away without any come back at all.

    Still responsible - on paper maybe but probably hasn't given the property a second thought for years.

    Also has no fear of being called to account, so long as I keep paying the mortgage

    forgive me if this all seems a little surreal.

    But, if my confusion and disbelief is going to be met with ridicule and scorn I might as well just move on to another forum where (hopefully) I'd get a more mature response.

    ps. I have managed to grab a short break from work - thats why I have ALL this time on my hands!
    Originally posted by myotai
    But you are basing this all on your situation and your failings to actually get your financial ducks in a row. were you EVER married to her (not when you bought, I can see you said you weren't married 'at the time') but were you married to her ever? You say you 'married again' if you were, then it should have been sorted during the divorce.

    If you hadn't broke up, you wouldn't be bothered.

    She hasn't been 'called to account' as you havent called her to account.

    The time to sort it out was when you broke up six years ago, not 6 years down the line harping on about how you have paid the mortgage alone.

    You lived in the house alone. The extra mortgage is rent to her for her half, as suggested earlier. You do realise as joint owner she is entitled to rent for her half, so theres your extra mortgage. I bet thats a bitter pill to swallow too :P

    I'm not sure what 'mature' responses are, but legally they will all say the same thing, she owns it, as much as you dont want her to.
    Last edited by marliepanda; 17-10-2016 at 3:24 PM.
    Suvery Earnings 2016 - £188
    • Sambella
    • By Sambella 17th Oct 16, 3:23 PM
    • 147 Posts
    • 159 Thanks
    Sambella
    Either way my ex partner (I am tempted to say 'she' but there are some sensitive souls would would interpret that as misogynistic) has just walked away without any come back at all.

    Still responsible - on paper maybe but probably hasn't given the property a second thought for years.

    Also has no fear of being called to account, so long as I keep paying the mortgage

    forgive me if this all seems a little surreal.

    But, if my confusion and disbelief is going to be met with ridicule and scorn I might as well just move on to another forum where (hopefully) I'd get a more mature response.

    ps. I have managed to grab a short break from work - thats why I have ALL this time on my hands!
    Originally posted by myotai
    It's not scorn. It's the reality.

    The longer it is left the more they may get and if you die tomorrow it's ALL theirs. Something to think about.

    The advice would be the same either way regardless of the second of the partner.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 17th Oct 16, 3:33 PM
    • 3,879 Posts
    • 3,451 Thanks
    davidmcn
    Somebody's bedside manner leaves a lot to be desired.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 17th Oct 16, 3:42 PM
    • 12,132 Posts
    • 10,508 Thanks
    AdrianC
    But, if my confusion and disbelief is going to be met with ridicule and scorn I might as well just move on to another forum where (hopefully) I'd get a more mature response.
    Originally posted by myotai
    Seems to me that the maturity is lacking in one direction only.

    It's very simple.

    You and your ex bought a house together. You own it jointly - you still haven't said whether as Tenants in Common or Joint Tenants.
    Your relationship ended. Neither of you did anything to transfer her part ownership to you. You are both still joint owners.
    You now want to sell the property. Why would the other joint owners NOT need to be involved in that process?

    Land Registry are not psychic, and know nothing about your relationship and whatever agreements you may have - except what you tell them. Their whole point is to register the ownership of property and prevent people except the legitimate owners from gaining ownership. How would you feel if you found that the OTHER joint owner had managed to remove YOUR name from ownership of the property...?

    If you can deal with each other as responsible mature grown adults, then she is quite likely to agree with you about the equity in the property, and simply sign the paperwork.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 17th Oct 16, 3:45 PM
    • 549 Posts
    • 477 Thanks
    steampowered
    Could you try remortgaging with a different bank, if your income allows it?

    Even if you can't remortgage, you will want to ensure that your mortgage contributions get you a bigger slice of the equity.

    At the moment you are joint tenants so you may find the split on sale would effectively be 50/50. You may wish to consider severing your joint tenancy and moving it into a tenancy in common. See https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership/change-from-joint-tenants-to-tenants-in-common.

    If you genuinely cannot locate her after conducting a proper search, you will be able to apply for a court order allowing the property to be sold. A District Judge has the power to sign the Land Registry forms for her if required.

    It would be worth speaking to a property solicitor about this, I think.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 17th Oct 16, 3:47 PM
    • 12,132 Posts
    • 10,508 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Could you try remortgaging with a different bank, if your income allows it?
    Originally posted by steampowered
    And that, I suspect, is why the property was left in joint names...
    • G_M
    • By G_M 17th Oct 16, 3:54 PM
    • 37,082 Posts
    • 41,039 Thanks
    G_M
    But, if my confusion and disbelief is going to be met with ridicule and scorn I might as well just move on to another forum where (hopefully) I'd get a more mature response.
    Originally posted by myotai
    There are 2 aspects to all this:

    1) your need/desire to understand your legal position and options.

    You've had this explained several times so the forum has fulfilled its function, though you are unhappy about (and perhaps don't believe?) what you've been told

    2) your desire to vent/express your anger/annoyance at the position you find yourself in. Having raised this yourself, you should not be surprised that others comment on it.

    Since those comments have been largely unsympathetic, and have held you to some extent responsible for the situation you are in, and pointed out that you could/should have realised where things were going, you have now taken the hump and theatened ( ) to find a more sympathetic forum. (sorry - 'mature')

    You may, or may not, find a more sympathetic forum. You won't find a different legal answer.
    • hazyjo
    • By hazyjo 17th Oct 16, 4:03 PM
    • 8,234 Posts
    • 9,987 Thanks
    hazyjo
    Hi,

    Not sure if you understood my initial post. That is EXACTLY what she has done. Walked away and apart from getting her 50% if I sell, has had nothing to do with the house (and the mortgage) nor has she EVER made any payments towards the mortgage, insurance etc...

    So yes, clearly she CAN walk away and that is the end of that! Apart from her getting her 50% that is!

    Nice.
    Originally posted by myotai



    I did understand it - but she only did that because you let her. Legally, she is still responsible. You chose to keep paying alone. If she literally packed a bag and went with no way of contacting her, you should have taken legal advice immediately. If you'd have stopped paying the mortgage, she would have been held as responsible as you. It is a joint mortgage.


    It seems you acknowledge all that, so I'm not sure why you're so shocked and find it so surreal. As I said, did you think her name would just drop off or something? What did you honestly think had happened about the fact that it was bought jointly with a joint mortgage?


    It doesn't matter who earned what - yes, if you'd left, she would have been up X creek without a paddle as she wouldn't have afforded it. You would have both been held equally responsible as it's a joint debt. Same in reverse - just because you earned more, you were no more liable than her. You also could have stopped paying. Nothing missold about it. Getting a joint anything with another person is a massive commitment - especially when it it's financial! I don't have any financial ties to my other half and we've been together over 4 years. I'm twice divorced so am probably more cautious than most! The house is mine and mine alone. That's the way it'll stay unless I keel over.


    Jx
    2016 wins: ESPA gift set; jumper; lip balm x 2; kitchen scales; perfume; shoes; theatre tickets; Champagne; books; After Eights; Diet Coke; Molton Brown duo; fish slice; travel set
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 17th Oct 16, 4:09 PM
    • 14,346 Posts
    • 36,518 Thanks
    FBaby
    Funny how you only see one side of it and seem to struggle to understand the notion of what an investment is about.

    If it wasn't for her, you wouldn't have been able to get the mortgage (which at £180K was massive considering your income). So without her, there would be no equity to share. Add to that the fact you've already acknowledge that you were not in a position to buy her out after she left due to your credit rating, so again, if you'd sold then, there would be no £50K to share.

    So yes, she made a good investment in the first place, but you needed her to be able to have your share of it too.

    Now why you are getting all dramatic when you haven't approached her yet and have no idea what she will say seems a bit of a waste of energy. For all you know, she might be happy to just put her name to the papers and agree to get nothing. That would be silly of her because as an enabler of the investment, even if she contributed nothing towards it from a financial perspective, she should be able to get something, but maybe she would be fair and not expect 50%.
    • myotai
    • By myotai 17th Oct 16, 4:37 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    myotai
    Relatively dramtic maybe!
    • myotai
    • By myotai 17th Oct 16, 4:40 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    myotai
    Relatively dramatc maybe!
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