Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • paulweller
    • By paulweller 17th Oct 16, 11:27 AM
    • 18Posts
    • 16Thanks
    paulweller
    6 Years n and I've Got a PCN...?
    • #1
    • 17th Oct 16, 11:27 AM
    6 Years n and I've Got a PCN...? 17th Oct 16 at 11:27 AM
    Hi,

    on 19th Nov 2010 my missus got a PCN but the car was registered in my name so the fine came to me.

    I came on here and found out that the fine was "un-enforcable" and duly went on to send the 3 template letters (found here on MSE) to the company, Vehicle Control Services LTD (VCS Ltd), who were chasing the fine.

    After the third letter I've not heard back from VCS Ltd (or anyone).

    Until this Saturday 15th Oct 2016, some 6 years later...I received a letter from "BW Legal" stating that they have been instructed by VCS to collect an outstanding balance. Threatening potential court action, costs, etc...

    Since then I have got divorced and the vehicle is still owned by my ex!

    So my question is, what course of action can/should I take?

    Cheers.
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Oct 16, 11:35 AM
    • 40,525 Posts
    • 52,410 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 17th Oct 16, 11:35 AM
    • #2
    • 17th Oct 16, 11:35 AM
    Same as all the other six year cases from BW Legal, we have loads here (did you search this board for: 'BW Legal'? Do that!!) and even more on pepipoo, showing you how to respond to see this out past the 6 year end date for them to pursue:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=109169

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=109132&st=0&p=1219970&#entry12 19970

    They are trying it on, last gasp. After 6 years it is 'statute barred' for recovery.

    DO NOT IGNORE NOR PANIC, KEEP THEM DANGLING WITH REPLIES!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 17-10-2016 at 9:49 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • paulweller
    • By paulweller 17th Oct 16, 4:20 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    paulweller
    • #3
    • 17th Oct 16, 4:20 PM
    • #3
    • 17th Oct 16, 4:20 PM
    Thinking of sending this on the 24th Oct (they gave me 16 days from the 11th Oct)...

    Too much not enough? Any advice greatly appreciated.

    Dear Sir or Madam:

    With regard to your letter dated 11th October 2016, I deny any debt to your client, Vehicle Control Services LTD. (VCS LTD)

    As you will no doubt be aware, I have previously informed your client PCS LTD that I while I am the registered keeper of the vehicle, I was not the driver at the time of the alleged offence.

    In order for me to assist you further, please provide suitable evidence to support your claim. For the avoidance of doubt, I require evidence of all the points below in order to consider your clients claim.

    (a) Details of the land on which the vehicle was parked, the period of parking to which your claim relates, and evidence showing that the vehicle was in fact parked on that land during that period of parking.
    (b) Details of any charges due from the driver, the circumstances in which the requirement to pay your client arose, the means by which the requirement was brought to the attention of the driver, and any other details to support your claim that a charge was payable, with evidence to support same.
    (c) Evidence of your clients authority to levy charges at the location, and to initiate action in their own name.
    (d) Any information you have to identify the driver, including CCTV or photographic evidence.

    If your clients are not able to provide satisfactory evidence of all of the above points within 28 days of the service of this letter, I will consider the matter closed. A refusal to send through such evidence will be considered unreasonable behavior.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 17th Oct 16, 4:24 PM
    • 11,009 Posts
    • 16,433 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #4
    • 17th Oct 16, 4:24 PM
    • #4
    • 17th Oct 16, 4:24 PM
    As you will no doubt be aware, I have previously informed your client PCS LTD that I while I am the registered keeper of the vehicle, I was not the driver at the time of the alleged offence.
    Do you mean VCS?

    Letter looks ok. Important you play letter ping-pong to get this statute barred at the 6 years point.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 17th Oct 16, 4:29 PM
    • 5,561 Posts
    • 4,272 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #5
    • 17th Oct 16, 4:29 PM
    • #5
    • 17th Oct 16, 4:29 PM
    This is tantamount to fraud, for which they, (BWL), are currently being investigated by the SRA. Send copies of all correspondence to Duncan Allen, SRA.

    http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/report-solicitor.page

    The more complaints they get the quicker they are likely to act.
    Last edited by The Deep; 18-10-2016 at 10:51 AM.
    • paulweller
    • By paulweller 17th Oct 16, 4:35 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    paulweller
    • #6
    • 17th Oct 16, 4:35 PM
    • #6
    • 17th Oct 16, 4:35 PM
    Yep VCS! Changed )

    And yes I've sent supporting letters etc
    Last edited by paulweller; 18-10-2016 at 9:10 AM.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 17th Oct 16, 6:55 PM
    • 36,468 Posts
    • 73,302 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #7
    • 17th Oct 16, 6:55 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Oct 16, 6:55 PM
    You could also say that since the alleged event was before the POFA 2012, only the driver is liable, which they already know. Then ask them for the driver's details so you can pass this on to them.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • paulweller
    • By paulweller 18th Oct 16, 9:17 AM
    • 18 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    paulweller
    • #8
    • 18th Oct 16, 9:17 AM
    • #8
    • 18th Oct 16, 9:17 AM
    You could also say that since the alleged event was before the POFA 2012, only the driver is liable, which they already know. Then ask them for the driver's details so you can pass this on to them.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Saving this for the second letter...
    • paulweller
    • By paulweller 8th Nov 16, 11:32 AM
    • 18 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    paulweller
    • #9
    • 8th Nov 16, 11:32 AM
    • #9
    • 8th Nov 16, 11:32 AM
    So BW Legal have just replyied with all the information I requested in the letter above...

    And in their closing paragraph state:

    As details of the driver not been forthcoming to suggest otherwise, our client, in the absence of the drivers details, reasonably presumes you were the driver and we refer you to the case of Elliott v Loake [1982].

    In order to prevent further costs from being incurred we would be grateful if you would contact us within 7 days from the date of this letter to pay the balance. If you fail to contact us within the stated timeframe we will seek our clients instruction on issuing County Court proceedings.

    We look forward to hearing from you within 7 days.
    • paulweller
    • By paulweller 8th Nov 16, 11:36 AM
    • 18 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    paulweller
    And so I'm proposing I send them something on these lines...

    Dear Sir or Madam:

    With regard to your letter dated 2nd November 2016, once again, I deny any debt to your client, Vehicle Control Services LTD. (VCS LTD)

    I have previously informed both yourselves and your client VCS LTD that while I am the registered keeper of the vehicle, I was not the driver at the time of the alleged offence.

    In order for me to assist you further, please provide suitable evidence to support your claim. For the avoidance of doubt, it is the claimants’ responsibility to prove their case.

    As you have quoted Elliot vs. Loake, in the interest of narrowing the issues and achieving the overriding objective, I require you to release the irrefutable evidence of the drivers identity that they must have.

    I am aware that the legal case does not create any presumption of the drivers identity, as the senior Barrister Henry Greenslade confirmed this in 2015.

    Your misrepresentation of this legal case against an unrepresented consumer has been noted, and appropriate complaints raised with the SRA and CSA.

    If such evidence is not received within 14 days of the date of service of this letter, that the matter will be considered closed. A refusal to send through such evidence will be considered unreasonable behavior.

    Yours sincerely
    xxxxx
    Last edited by paulweller; 08-11-2016 at 1:25 PM.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 8th Nov 16, 11:49 AM
    • 1,068 Posts
    • 1,320 Thanks
    Castle
    You may want to include reference to this very recent case where a judge ruled that Elliot v Loake was not applicable; since BW Legal was involved:-
    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/excel-parking-youve-been-gladstoned.html
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 8th Nov 16, 12:10 PM
    • 5,561 Posts
    • 4,272 Thanks
    The Deep
    Oh dear, when iis the SRA going to put a stop to this.
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 8th Nov 16, 12:19 PM
    • 4,091 Posts
    • 3,568 Thanks
    Herzlos
    Definintely complain to the SRA that they are still lying about EvL despite judges and POPLA ruling against it being applicable. They know it's rubbish, and it's a bare faced attempt at deception.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 8th Nov 16, 12:34 PM
    • 5,394 Posts
    • 4,930 Thanks
    pappa golf
    why bother replying , the letter from them gave you 7 days , less a couple for posting . the thing times out next Saturday
    Have YOU had to walk 500 miles?
    Were you advised to walk 500 more?
    You could be entitled to compensation.
    Call the Pro Claimers NOW.
    • catfunt
    • By catfunt 8th Nov 16, 12:47 PM
    • 477 Posts
    • 701 Thanks
    catfunt
    If that is your real name signed at the bottom of your last post, I strongly suggest that you edit your post and remove it.
    Got a Private Parking Notice??
    ** Do Not Pay
    ** Do Not Ignore a Notice to Keeper (except Scotland)
    ** Do not mention who was driving (No "Me" Myself" "I")
    ** Never, ever phone a Private Parking Company
    ** Please read the NEWBIES thread at the top of the forum
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 8th Nov 16, 1:01 PM
    • 5,394 Posts
    • 4,930 Thanks
    pappa golf
    Question?

    how long does it take to issue court papers , yup online , but is it instant or do they go in a pile then allocated a number , ie: if B+W send it back to muppet and co , next monday , will muppet and co have it all up and running by friday?
    Have YOU had to walk 500 miles?
    Were you advised to walk 500 more?
    You could be entitled to compensation.
    Call the Pro Claimers NOW.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 8th Nov 16, 1:11 PM
    • 30,265 Posts
    • 14,357 Thanks
    Quentin
    Yes they can get the action up and running within 24 hours.


    But if they are on the ball with their monitoring here then unless Jim removes his name from the thread then they will act within the 6 years, leaving Jim with the extra hassle of having to defend a claim!!
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 8th Nov 16, 1:20 PM
    • 4,135 Posts
    • 4,752 Thanks
    beamerguy

    And in their closing paragraph state:

    As details of the driver not been forthcoming to suggest otherwise, our client, in the absence of the drivers details, reasonably presumes you were the driver and we refer you to the case of Elliott v Loake [1982].
    Originally posted by paulweller
    What part of >>>> "Elliott v Loake is not relevant" <<<<<
    do BWLegal NOT UNDERSTAND.

    It is amazing that the SRA allow this bunch to continue with misleading statements ???

    BUT WAIT ..... next letter will be a 40% off november scammers discount ?????

    Such an un-professional firm of solicitors
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 8th Nov 16, 1:25 PM
    • 5,394 Posts
    • 4,930 Thanks
    pappa golf
    by which time , the 6 yrs will have elapsed and a formal complaint can be sent to the SRA , for trying to demand money after 6 yrs
    Have YOU had to walk 500 miles?
    Were you advised to walk 500 more?
    You could be entitled to compensation.
    Call the Pro Claimers NOW.
    • paulweller
    • By paulweller 8th Nov 16, 1:35 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    paulweller
    Thanks everyone for the input.

    Quick question (s)

    1. Their letter is dated 2nd Nov - I received it Friday 4th Nov - It states "contact us with 7 days from the date of this letter..." - BUT that wastes Sat/Sun so does my response need to be with them by 9th?

    2. Does my response letter look ok or should I put in something about the Loake ruling being prior to the alleged offence etc...
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

429Posts Today

1,732Users online

Martin's Twitter