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  • FIRST POST
    • Window1
    • By Window1 16th Oct 16, 8:21 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Window1
    parking court claim defence or counterclaim -expenses
    • #1
    • 16th Oct 16, 8:21 PM
    parking court claim defence or counterclaim -expenses 16th Oct 16 at 8:21 PM
    My wife parked at a retail shop where she had parked and shopped there regularly. Before her last visit they introduced parking operated by ES Parking Enforcement Ltd.
    She received 2 parking charge details one recorded at 13.31 and the second recorded at 14.25 on the same day.
    She has paid the first one.
    She has now received details of a County Court claim for the 2nd unpaid charge. We can either defend or make a counterclaim. We have only 5 more days to make a decision. We think we will win as the 2nd parking charge is in error? Other than the original parking charge notices we did not receive any other correspondence until the court papers came.
    The parking company did not read my wife's letter sent with the 1st ticket payment and because of their lack of communication etc. we would like to claim expenses for preparing the defence and/or counterclaim.
    What is the best way to get expenses? .
    I have looked through a lot of the topics on the forum but cannot find anything that may help.
    Has any member any information/guidance on how to claim the expenses we are going to incur in fighting the case and of course what expenses can be claimed?
    Members comments that may be useful would also be appreciated.
Page 1
    • Marktheshark
    • By Marktheshark 16th Oct 16, 8:23 PM
    • 5,335 Posts
    • 6,679 Thanks
    Marktheshark
    • #2
    • 16th Oct 16, 8:23 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Oct 16, 8:23 PM
    I would claim the first back as well as there is a conflict of mis information.
    Brexit will become whatever they invent it to be.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 16th Oct 16, 11:29 PM
    • 2,952 Posts
    • 3,950 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #3
    • 16th Oct 16, 11:29 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Oct 16, 11:29 PM
    If you are claiming any expenses etc,you must inform all parties at the earliest opportunity.
    Is also your duty to take all steps to avoid this going to court.
    one big step you could take is to get in touch with the landowner/principal ad ask them to cancel. As principal the landowner can tell its agents ( the parking company ) to cancel any court action right up to the day/last few minutes that proceedings start
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Oct 16, 11:58 PM
    • 40,565 Posts
    • 52,449 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 16th Oct 16, 11:58 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Oct 16, 11:58 PM
    My wife parked at a retail shop where she had parked and shopped there regularly. Before her last visit they introduced parking operated by ES Parking Enforcement Ltd.

    She received 2 parking charge details one recorded at 13.31 and the second recorded at 14.25 on the same day.

    She has paid the first one.
    Originally posted by Window1
    Oh dear. Why pay a private parking charge? Don't make that mistake again, she is now seen as being on a mug's list. She was not liable to them for any debt and the first one was as defendable as this one is.

    Were they both for the same 'contravention'?

    Were they both windscreen PCNs or both postal ones, saying the same thing?

    She should urgently email the DVLA tomorrow and ask how many applications were made for her data as the registered keeper because each parking event requires a fresh application:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/dvla-reverse-position-on-charging-to.html

    Try this online email address:

    https://emaildvla.direct.gov.uk/emaildvla/cegemail/dvla/en/vehicle_5_205.html

    She has now received details of a County Court claim for the 2nd unpaid charge. We can either defend or make a counterclaim. We have only 5 more days to make a decision.
    Why do you only have 5 days? If you acknowledge the claim online within 14 days of service then that extends the time to defend to 28 days from service of the papers. Thus, court papers dated 7th Oct (for example) do not have to have a defence filed until the first week of November (I'm being deliberately vague so you do not miss the deadline) as long as the recipient of the claim acknowledges it and states they will 'defend in full' leaving the defence box COMPLETELY BLANK. Not even TBA, nothing in there!

    So tell us, have you acknowledged it? Have you in fact got longer than you thought?

    See the Heading 'Small Claim?' in the NEWBIES FAQS thread and look at the links there, including the second one to bargepole's summary of what to do and when, who to serve each set of paperwork to and how to complete the questions.

    Re your costs, you can claim them when you win. Or, if the firm discontinue late, you can submit a list of your wasted costs to your local court and ask for them to be considered by the Judge assigned to the case even though a hearing did not occur.

    A counterclaim is not usually recommended or necessary, as it costs you a court fee and forces the case to a hearing (because both sides are claiming). In fact that's probably not what your wife wants, a day in court? Mostly, people defend and if it proceeds, they prepare a costs summary which includes expenses for attending, travel/parking(!), missed pay for half a day, typically, and perhaps a reasonable sum for dealing with the claim at £19 per hour if the Judge allows that.

    I think the PPC will drop this but you will need to defend it, once acknowledged.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Window1
    • By Window1 17th Oct 16, 10:32 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Window1
    • #5
    • 17th Oct 16, 10:32 AM
    • #5
    • 17th Oct 16, 10:32 AM
    Thanks for the detailed posts.
    They were both postal PCNs
    Only 5 days. We have been on holiday and served the 28 acknowledgement extension which will run out in the 5days+. We made a counterclaim but is only applicable if the fee is paid which we have not yet done.
    We are not sure about claiming back for the 1st charge that my wife paid? When she parked she did not pay for a parking ticket so we wonder how a claim could be made?
    • Window1
    • By Window1 17th Oct 16, 3:50 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Window1
    • #6
    • 17th Oct 16, 3:50 PM
    • #6
    • 17th Oct 16, 3:50 PM
    Further to my previous post the solicitor acting on behalf of ES PARKING ENFORCEMENT LTD have been in contact stating that they are intending to issue a N159 form. This is a request for the case to considered on paperwork alone without a hearing.
    Is a paperwork or an actual hearing better? Is it better for the parking company? Would my wife loose any browny points for not agreeing to the paperwork option? Again, which would be best for claiming my wife's expenses
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 17th Oct 16, 4:05 PM
    • 5,561 Posts
    • 4,272 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #7
    • 17th Oct 16, 4:05 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Oct 16, 4:05 PM
    Say no to a paper hearing, PPCs lie and a paper hearing may not highlight it.

    Judges can, but rarely do, award costs against claimants for unreasonable behaviour, Google CPR14.27(2)(g). You should warn the siolicitor that you will be claiming for this if you win.

    I know nothing about counterclaiming, but understand that you need a good case, a few threatening letters is not enough.
    Last edited by The Deep; 17-10-2016 at 4:32 PM.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 17th Oct 16, 4:07 PM
    • 990 Posts
    • 1,733 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #8
    • 17th Oct 16, 4:07 PM
    • #8
    • 17th Oct 16, 4:07 PM
    You do not want a paper hearing. Paper hearings get an 80% win rate for the claimant

    A reply which you can send is here, courtesy of Gan.

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=106131&view=findpost&p=1178878
    General Election coming up? Your MP worried about his/her job? Give them something to do and get them to sort out these parking cowboys. Search "Theyworkforyou" for the name of your MP.
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 17th Oct 16, 4:11 PM
    • 4,107 Posts
    • 3,589 Thanks
    Herzlos
    • #9
    • 17th Oct 16, 4:11 PM
    • #9
    • 17th Oct 16, 4:11 PM
    The only reason they want a paper hearing is that it's more likely they'll win - because no-one will pick up on their lies. Insist on a court hearing, and make them work for it.
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