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  • FIRST POST
    • ellie27
    • By ellie27 16th Oct 16, 7:21 PM
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    ellie27
    Is this staircase toooooo narrow?
    • #1
    • 16th Oct 16, 7:21 PM
    Is this staircase toooooo narrow? 16th Oct 16 at 7:21 PM
    Following my previous post....

    Floorplans... http://media.rightmove.co.uk/60k/59084/27985005/59084_212433_FLP_00_0000_max_600x600.jpg

    We want to remove wall between kitchen and dining room and put on doors to garden at the back.

    Unfortunately we have staircase to bedrooms in our dining room..... we could reposition the stairs to the hallway, with the bottom step being just infront of the 'C' cupboard. That was were the original staircase was before previous owners converted upstairs from 1 bed to 3 bedroms. Wall to wall that cupboard is 78cm - is this too narrow for a staircase?

    Any thoughts, thanks!

    EDITED - I am in Scotland and done a bit of googling, obviously, and came across somewhere saying 900mm is minimum....... not sure if thats old building standards or if each council have their own though.
    Last edited by ellie27; 16-10-2016 at 7:41 PM. Reason: .
Page 1
    • the_r_sole
    • By the_r_sole 16th Oct 16, 8:07 PM
    • 2,050 Posts
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    the_r_sole
    • #2
    • 16th Oct 16, 8:07 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Oct 16, 8:07 PM
    It's too narrow, you need 900 wide, if you are putting a new stair in there are a few regs that you need to comply with, likely will not be as steep as your existing stair or as narrow...
    Scottish technical standards apply across the board but there's a few things open to interpretation by officers, stairs isn't one of those things unfortunately
    • leveller2911
    • By leveller2911 16th Oct 16, 8:34 PM
    • 7,362 Posts
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    leveller2911
    • #3
    • 16th Oct 16, 8:34 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Oct 16, 8:34 PM
    It's too narrow, you need 900 wide, if you are putting a new stair in there are a few regs that you need to comply with, likely will not be as steep as your existing stair or as narrow...
    Scottish technical standards apply across the board but there's a few things open to interpretation by officers, stairs isn't one of those things unfortunately
    Originally posted by the_r_sole

    In England Believe it or not there is no minimum width for a staircase in a domestic dwelling. Plenty of other regs so minimum going (tread depth) 220mm maximum rise (tread height) of 220mm ,maximum pitch of stairs 42 degrees ,headroom minimum 2m etc etc etc.. Personally I think anything under 800mm overall of strings is too narrow for everyday use.

    It is a strange one though.. EDIT Just read the OP is in Scotland and if they require minimum of 900mm then again thats extreme and too wide in most houses.
    Last edited by leveller2911; 16-10-2016 at 8:37 PM.
    If we in parliament cannot gain from ruling,then there is very little point in us being here: (Lord Manchester 1650) :rolleyes: how true!
    • ellie27
    • By ellie27 16th Oct 16, 8:41 PM
    • 959 Posts
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    ellie27
    • #4
    • 16th Oct 16, 8:41 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Oct 16, 8:41 PM
    It's too narrow, you need 900 wide, if you are putting a new stair in there are a few regs that you need to comply with, likely will not be as steep as your existing stair or as narrow...
    Scottish technical standards apply across the board but there's a few things open to interpretation by officers, stairs isn't one of those things unfortunately
    Originally posted by the_r_sole
    You seem quite knowledgeable....... CAN I keep my stairs in my open kitchen dining room. Leaving all as is and just knocking down the diving wall? I have done lot of googling and did think I would need some type of sprinkler system and top bedrooms fitted with fire-doors..... any knowledge on this thanks!
    • the_r_sole
    • By the_r_sole 16th Oct 16, 10:22 PM
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    the_r_sole
    • #5
    • 16th Oct 16, 10:22 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Oct 16, 10:22 PM
    In England Believe it or not there is no minimum width for a staircase in a domestic dwelling. Plenty of other regs so minimum going (tread depth) 220mm maximum rise (tread height) of 220mm ,maximum pitch of stairs 42 degrees ,headroom minimum 2m etc etc etc.. Personally I think anything under 800mm overall of strings is too narrow for everyday use.

    It is a strange one though.. EDIT Just read the OP is in Scotland and if they require minimum of 900mm then again thats extreme and too wide in most houses.
    Originally posted by leveller2911
    it's 900mm clear but you can reduce it to 800 clear if you have handrails on both sides... if it was serving a single room you can go down to 600mm but we have much more strict rules for staircases in scotland for whatever reason!
    • Nilrem
    • By Nilrem 16th Oct 16, 10:23 PM
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    Nilrem
    • #6
    • 16th Oct 16, 10:23 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Oct 16, 10:23 PM
    I'm no expert, but most rules only come into effect if there is a change, so for existing things they'd be grandfathered in.

    IE if you have a new fuse box it has to meet the latest mandatory standards, but you can still have a 25+ year old on in an existing installation.

    With the stairs I'd be surprised if they had to be replaced with ones that meet the modern standards unless they were being replaced anyway.

    The problem would likely be the removal of the wall from the kitchen, that would almost certainly require additional fire prevention/protection elsewhere in the house.
    • the_r_sole
    • By the_r_sole 16th Oct 16, 10:29 PM
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    the_r_sole
    • #7
    • 16th Oct 16, 10:29 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Oct 16, 10:29 PM
    You seem quite knowledgeable....... CAN I keep my stairs in my open kitchen dining room. Leaving all as is and just knocking down the diving wall? I have done lot of googling and did think I would need some type of sprinkler system and top bedrooms fitted with fire-doors..... any knowledge on this thanks!
    Originally posted by ellie27
    you are only a bungalow, so as long as your windows up the stairs could be used as a means of escape then it's fine (i.e. cill between 900mm and 1100mm and a reasonable opening area), you should also be able to keep your current stair arrangement without too much hassle, not sure how desirable it would be to have kitchen smells open to a stair?
    • suki1964
    • By suki1964 16th Oct 16, 10:45 PM
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    suki1964
    • #8
    • 16th Oct 16, 10:45 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Oct 16, 10:45 PM
    I was under the impression that a fireman wearing full breathing apparatus had to be able to negotiate them which meant 900 wide ?

    Or is that just work places?

    Just remember our office being closed as the fire brigade wouldn't certify it because of aisle and stair clearence
    if you lend someone £20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 16th Oct 16, 11:39 PM
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    teddysmum
    • #9
    • 16th Oct 16, 11:39 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Oct 16, 11:39 PM
    A staircase is useless if you cannot move suitable furniture up and down it.


    My son has a new house and is restricted to a bed with it's mattress on a frame, as a divan cannot be taken up the stairs.
    • marc81
    • By marc81 17th Oct 16, 10:10 AM
    • 59 Posts
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    marc81
    Sorry to thread hijack, but I have a question of a similar nature. We are about to have work done on the house and to incorporate a new doorway we are having to change the landing slightly which means bringing the top of the stairs in a bit - when you currently get to the top of our stairs before the turn you are faced with a stud wall, this is the side of our airing cupboard which will be removed and a rail/spindles put in to open up the landing, this makes the top stairs narrower at the turn but the steps that will be altered are angled. Does anyone know if it's the maximum depth that will be looked at when taking regs in to account? The pic below should help if i'm not very clear, the dotted red line will be the new width of the stairs.



    Thanks,
    • martindow
    • By martindow 17th Oct 16, 10:18 AM
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    martindow
    Marc - I can't see a plan - did you forget to put it in? I had some work done in the house and one of the stipulations with repositioning a door was that there had to be a minimum distance from the top of the stairs to the doorway.

    This is in England - the OP referred to Scottish regs.
    • marc81
    • By marc81 17th Oct 16, 10:24 AM
    • 59 Posts
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    marc81
    Sorry it doesn't seem to have liked my picture upload. This is the picture I tried to post...

    http://pasteboard.co/fZxvG6YpO.jpg
    • megaginge
    • By megaginge 17th Oct 16, 10:27 AM
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    megaginge
    Marc's image:

    Hello There.
    • glasgowdan
    • By glasgowdan 17th Oct 16, 12:13 PM
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    glasgowdan
    A staircase is useless if you cannot move suitable furniture up and down it.


    My son has a new house and is restricted to a bed with it's mattress on a frame, as a divan cannot be taken up the stairs.
    Originally posted by teddysmum
    I don't see the need for a divan bed, given how ugly they are, and wouldn't find a problem with only being able to fit a bed with a frame that dismantles.
    • ellie27
    • By ellie27 17th Oct 16, 1:13 PM
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    ellie27
    ....you should also be able to keep your current stair arrangement without too much hassle, not sure how desirable it would be to have kitchen smells open to a stair?
    Originally posted by the_r_sole
    We keep the door between kitchen and dining room open all the time for ease of going between the rooms with food/drink/plates etc. We dont get any smells at all going upstairs so I don't think there would be much of a difference when we knock through the wall. True - not desirable to folk when considering a house to buy or when/if it came to us selling on.

    If we blocked off the staircase with a wall, except a door opening at the bottom, the door would open into our dining/kitchen. A door to a staircase to bedrooms upstairs...... is that as bad as open staircase into dining/kitchen. Which is the least 'least desirable'? Thanks!
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 17th Oct 16, 1:47 PM
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    Doozergirl
    They're both undesirable because you have a five bedroom house with stairs in entirely the wrong place.

    Whether you put a door on is not going to make a lot of difference. If you have 20 viewers (or people looking at the details) when selling, a majority will be put off by the location of the stairs. Of those that aren't put off - you weren't - then I suppose more would prefer a door up, but again it isn't orthodox. I might expect it on a 17th Century house, but not a 20th Century one.

    I'd be looking to solve the problem correctly and make it back in the house value and appeal.
    Last edited by Doozergirl; 17-10-2016 at 1:52 PM.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • ellie27
    • By ellie27 17th Oct 16, 7:47 PM
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    ellie27
    They're both undesirable because you have a five bedroom house with stairs in entirely the wrong place.
    Originally posted by Doozergirl
    Any more ideas of where the staircase could possibly go? Thanks!
    • the_r_sole
    • By the_r_sole 17th Oct 16, 8:31 PM
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    the_r_sole
    Any more ideas of where the staircase could possibly go? Thanks!
    Originally posted by ellie27
    in all seriousness you need to get someone in to do a measure survey and look at detailed proposals that would comply with building regs - there's been a few suggestions but you've kind of got to the point where you need a to get a professional involved to solve this problem with all the measurements and structural issues considered
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 17th Oct 16, 11:21 PM
    • 22,268 Posts
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    Doozergirl
    in all seriousness you need to get someone in to do a measure survey and look at detailed proposals that would comply with building regs - there's been a few suggestions but you've kind of got to the point where you need a to get a professional involved to solve this problem with all the measurements and structural issues considered
    Originally posted by the_r_sole
    I agree. Even something that looks obvious on the ground can be hard to engineer. We've got a real handicap from where we stand.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
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