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  • FIRST POST
    • Justiceforme
    • By Justiceforme 16th Oct 16, 2:43 PM
    • 134Posts
    • 24Thanks
    Justiceforme
    Urgent Help Required Boiler Fitter
    • #1
    • 16th Oct 16, 2:43 PM
    Urgent Help Required Boiler Fitter 16th Oct 16 at 2:43 PM
    Hi, hope someone can advise me. I arranged to have a new boiler fitted last Friday. I did check the Gas Safe register prior to agreeing to have the work completed. The boiler was fitted Friday, however it is not working at all. Fitter returned yesterday and still could not find fault, may be electrical?
    He agreed to return today at 1pm, with an electrician to sort out problems. He a has not turned up as promised, I have phoned him several times and left messages, no response. The work has not been paid for but I have no confidence in his ability to complete the work. Any advice would be welcome.

    Many thanks
Page 2
    • Justiceforme
    • By Justiceforme 17th Oct 16, 3:27 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Justiceforme
    I was wondering if, neilmcl or Zandoni are either of you gas engineers because you obviously have different views on the need for a system power flush.

    Thanks
    • Zandoni
    • By Zandoni 17th Oct 16, 3:27 PM
    • 2,571 Posts
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    Zandoni
    Clearly you're not a plumber/central heating engineer. "Most" competent installers will not powerflush as a matter of course, what they will do is see if it's necessary or indeed appropriate to do so. One of the quickest ways to burst and destroy old CH pipework is to power flush when the existing system can't handle it. In particular when there is alternative methods to clean out the system.

    Also, to your 2nd point. The installer is a plumber/heating engineer not an electrician. Whilst he can clearly see there's an electrical issue, he's unlikely to be skilled and more importantly qualified to rectify it.

    It's a bit rich accusing others of not understanding something when you clearly have next to no knowledge yourself.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    You obviously know very little yourself, most installers powerflush because it can be done in a day and it will have a greater success than time consuming chemical methods. It should also be done before the installation and does not require a working boiler. Any faults in the pipework will need to be repaired. The boiler guarantee will be voided if dirt gets into the boiler.

    From what the OP said the installer only thought it was an electrical fault, he should know for sure.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 17th Oct 16, 3:33 PM
    • 8,625 Posts
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    neilmcl
    I was wondering if, neilmcl or Zandoni are either of you gas engineers because you obviously have different views on the need for a system power flush.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by Justiceforme
    The system requires cleaning, full stop. Any competent installer worth their salt, and no I'm not a a gas engineer but I know plenty, will check whether it's appropriate for the existing system and pipework that a powerflush can be used. There are other methods, such as mains flushing or gravity flushing that can be employed if the pipework is not up to a powerflush, and these will take longer (although all can be done with a day) but I'd expect a decent installer to be expert enough to at least consider the options and make the customer aware.

    Clearly a powerflush was OK and suitable for your system.
    Last edited by neilmcl; 17-10-2016 at 3:35 PM.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 17th Oct 16, 4:35 PM
    • 14,587 Posts
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    hollydays
    The issue is probably this-the fitter wasn't expecting the boiler to fail, now he has other jobs booked in that he's completing. He now hasn't got a window of time to carry this out, plus he's got to get it to correspond with an electrician . He's probably feeling stressed at how's he's going to sort this out. A little understanding might help the situation.
    • Zandoni
    • By Zandoni 17th Oct 16, 4:39 PM
    • 2,571 Posts
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    Zandoni
    The issue is probably this-the fitter wasn't expecting the boiler to fail, now he has other jobs booked in that he's completing. He now hasn't got a window of time to carry this out, plus he's got to get it to correspond with an electrician . He's probably feeling stressed at how's he's going to sort this out. A little understanding might help the situation.
    Originally posted by hollydays
    That's probably the case but he should keep the OP properly informed.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 17th Oct 16, 4:45 PM
    • 14,587 Posts
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    hollydays
    That's probably the case but he should keep the OP properly informed.
    Originally posted by Zandoni
    Agreed, the op needs to have a conversation with him and say " what's going on here" .I don't see the justification at this point in wanting someone else to do the job ( and getting legal advice? ) Is there something she's not telling us?)
    I've had this kind of thing happen with tradesmen, it happens. Overreacting won't help solve the ops problem, she needs to manage him.

    The op did post the thread below a while ago , actually she's asked this question twice with no responses, hence some questions I asked earlier about how she found the tradesman etc(which weren't responded to)
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5396878
    If it's this company she needs to say so, the website is dire.
    Last edited by hollydays; 17-10-2016 at 6:26 PM.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 17th Oct 16, 7:08 PM
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    neilmcl
    OP, you still haven't told us what your legal advice has been?
    • Justiceforme
    • By Justiceforme 17th Oct 16, 7:14 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Justiceforme
    holldays, no there's nothing she is not is telling you. This implies that I'm lying about some facts and I'm not. The other thread you were referring was in connection with a company offering free boilers for people on certain benefits which does not included me. I had 3 quotes from different companies, non from the one mentioned in the previous thread. All quotes were from engineers registered on the Gas Safe site, if this answers your question. The company I chose also offer 24 hour emergency call out, not much chance of this happening if they can't be bothered to answer the phone during the daytime. You can't manage a person won't answer the phone. We are not all liars and cheats on this site. I don't often post on here but I have found some good advice from people who are genuinely knowledgeable, kind, helpful and non criticizing. Yes, I have taken legal advise and that's my choice, after all I do pay for it. If, I want to contact Gas Safe for advice I can also do that as well, they have the authority to check an engineers professional competence. They actually encourage people to report unprofessional standards of working practise.
    Perhaps you will think of me sitting in the cold with no hot water tonight.

    Many thanks to the helpful posters
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 17th Oct 16, 7:27 PM
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    hollydays
    I certainly wasn't implying you were lying, but as you didn't respond to some questions, I thought it possible you were keeping something back.
    I was more concerned you had got involved with something hence Why I suggested you paid by credit card in case you hadn't thoroughly researched the company!
    Sheesh!
    You need to hire some calor gas heater maybe from a hire company and knock that amount off the final bill, and leave him a message telling him that's what your doing and the price.
    Last edited by hollydays; 17-10-2016 at 7:40 PM.
    • Justiceforme
    • By Justiceforme 17th Oct 16, 7:54 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Justiceforme
    neilmcl, Legal advise, agreed with me, said if the engineer could not complete electrical work himself, he should never have attempted to so. The electrical work must be completed by qualified electrician. To make a complaint in writing to the engineer and ask for a completion date. On average a straight boiler swap should take no more than one full day unless there are complications with the boiler. This is what the engineer stated during the prior inspection and quote. Have been old not to pay for anything until the work is completed to a safe, satisfactory working condition. Even said I should consider asking for compensation for the time wasted waiting for engineer, who was incapable of completing electrical work and failure to attend agreed appointment on Sunday.

    Thanks
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 17th Oct 16, 7:57 PM
    • 9,690 Posts
    • 6,506 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    neilmcl, Legal advise, agreed with me, said if the engineer could not complete electrical work himself, he should never have attempted to so. The electrical work must be completed by qualified electrician. To make a complaint in writing to the engineer and ask for a completion date. On average a straight boiler swap should take no more than one full day unless there are complications with the boiler. This is what the engineer stated during the prior inspection and quote. Have been old not to pay for anything until the work is completed to a safe, satisfactory working condition. Even said I should consider asking for compensation for the time wasted waiting for engineer, who was incapable of completing electrical work and failure to attend agreed appointment on Sunday.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by Justiceforme
    That didn't take long to come up.

    How will you quantify your losses?
    "I suggest you read who's thread this is and you will find its MINE". sic
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 17th Oct 16, 7:58 PM
    • 17,246 Posts
    • 7,783 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    I should consider asking for compensation for the time wasted waiting for engineer, who was incapable of completing electrical work and failure to attend agreed appointment on Sunday.
    Originally posted by Justiceforme
    Good luck with that one.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 17th Oct 16, 10:17 PM
    • 8,625 Posts
    • 5,650 Thanks
    neilmcl
    neilmcl, Legal advise, agreed with me, said if the engineer could not complete electrical work himself, he should never have attempted to so. The electrical work must be completed by qualified electrician. To make a complaint in writing to the engineer and ask for a completion date. On average a straight boiler swap should take no more than one full day unless there are complications with the boiler. This is what the engineer stated during the prior inspection and quote. Have been old not to pay for anything until the work is completed to a safe, satisfactory working condition. Even said I should consider asking for compensation for the time wasted waiting for engineer, who was incapable of completing electrical work and failure to attend agreed appointment on Sunday.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by Justiceforme
    But it's not just a case of him being able to "complete" the electrical work, what you've stated is that there's an unforeseen electrical issue, either with the boiler or your home electrics (at this stage no-one knows) in which he rightly now requires the expertise of a qualified electrician.
    • Zandoni
    • By Zandoni 17th Oct 16, 10:26 PM
    • 2,571 Posts
    • 1,375 Thanks
    Zandoni
    But it's not just a case of him being able to "complete" the electrical work, what you've stated is that there's an unforeseen electrical issue, either with the boiler or your home electrics (at this stage no-one knows) in which he rightly now requires the expertise of a qualified electrician.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    It would be nice to know what the problem was with the old boiler, maybe that had an electrical problem.

    The bottom line is that the OP has been left without heating and the boiler installer is not communicating with them, this is unacceptable.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 18th Oct 16, 10:59 AM
    • 8,625 Posts
    • 5,650 Thanks
    neilmcl
    It would be nice to know what the problem was with the old boiler, maybe that had an electrical problem.

    The bottom line is that the OP has been left without heating and the boiler installer is not communicating with them, this is unacceptable.
    Originally posted by Zandoni
    Have I stated anything to the contrary.
    • Zandoni
    • By Zandoni 18th Oct 16, 2:27 PM
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    Zandoni
    Have I stated anything to the contrary.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    I never said you did.
    • Justiceforme
    • By Justiceforme 19th Oct 16, 1:35 AM
    • 134 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Justiceforme
    Urgent help with boiler engineer uodate
    The gas engineer returned this morning around 10pm with an electrician, as requested to sort out electrical problems. Apparently the gas engineer failed to connect wiring correctly, the problem was quickly sorted out. I was not present at the time due to a very important appointment. When I returned around 1pm, engineer said everything was working perfectly. We paid for the work, I paid half in cash, OH agreed to pay the remainder via credit card. but engineers card machine was faulty, so we agreed to pay by cheque as the was no other alternative. We obtained certificates, receipts and boiler manuals. About one hour later I thought I would try to use the new boiler to obtain hot water to complete some cleaning jobs, I switched the boiler onto the hot the water facility only, waited about 1 hour. Turned taps on, no hot water all.
    I advised OH to cancel the cheque to the engineer with the bank immediately, at the cost of £10.00. I contacted the gas engineer again and reported that we did not have any hot water supply and was cancelling the cheque due the to these reasons.
    His reply was that the boiler was had been fitted and was in perfect working order. During my phone call, he admitted that he did not test the hot water facility of the boiler, plus he thought that there maybe an air blockage in the system. He said he would return next Thursday after 5pm with the equipment to resolve the air blockage. I have emailed him concerning the reasons as to why he failed to complete the necessary tests.
    I have great respect for any genuine tradesmen and will always offer a tip for good service.
    Legally, if I refuse to pay him, I have broken the contract and he can reclaim everything via a court order, plus costs.
    We are both pensioners and don't have enough money to fight a court case.

    Please do not respond to this thread unless you can offer genuine advise. I really do no not need any abuse at all, as I have not done anything wrong but just asked for advise. I don't need unqualified people arguing amongst themselves. I welcome any advise from anyone who is very qualified in heating & plumbing or anyone regarding the law on consumer law concerning heating and plumbing engineering.

    Many thanks
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 19th Oct 16, 9:00 AM
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    • 10,379 Thanks
    hollydays
    You have two choices.
    Call in another engineer to complete the work.

    ( you could also Ring the gas board , tell them you thought you could smell gas? While not true, as you seem to have had gut feeling about the fitter, it may be a precaution worth taking?)

    Or Wait till Thursday.
    In addition, tell him to get his credit card machine fixed as you intend to pay the remainder by credit card.
    If you want to send me the name of the company , in confidence, I will see what I can find out about them.
    Last edited by hollydays; 19-10-2016 at 10:09 AM.
    • Justiceforme
    • By Justiceforme 20th Oct 16, 12:00 AM
    • 134 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Justiceforme
    Urgent help with boiler engineer uodate
    Hi to anyone is interested. Here is the reply from the s engineer that I received yesterday.

    It would appear to be an airlock in the system, this is usually the case when the pump is replaced, when we installed the boiler the demand for hot water was working properly and everything was fully sufficient for full commissioning. You requested us to change the boiler and diverter value which has been fully completed, not to diagnose another other problems on your system.

    I will again come back on Thursday to install an automatic air vent which hopefully solve your problem.

    As we have completed the job we quoted for, payment for the completion of work will be required on Thursday and I am afraid we will no longer be accepting cheques for payment.

    Firstly, if he was aware that there may be a possibly of an airlock in system, which affected the pump after the new boiler was fitted, why didn't he sort it out. Secondly the demand for water had not been working and never has been. Quite clearly everything was not working properly. Not sure what an automatic air vent will do.
    I thought its was the engineers responsibility to fit the new boiler and ensure that it was if full working order, providing heating and hot water. I have not asked him to diagnose any new problems, just fix the ones he has caused. As for paying by credit card, no problem with that, if his card machine is working.
    I have contacted Gas Safe, they will be completing an inspection within the few weeks. I have no desire for compensation or to make anyone's life a misery.

    Many thanks to all
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