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  • FIRST POST
    • timjimlefty
    • By timjimlefty 15th Oct 16, 7:04 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 6Thanks
    timjimlefty
    Tower Rd/Fistral Parking Query
    • #1
    • 15th Oct 16, 7:04 PM
    Tower Rd/Fistral Parking Query 15th Oct 16 at 7:04 PM
    Tower Road Car Park Newquay (parking Eye)
    Please does anyone know whether in March 2016 it was possible to get a ticket from the pay machine without entering my car reg no. The thing is that I did get a ticket from the machine and the printout shows that I did because it fits exactly with my entry photos/time to the car park - BUT there is a blank space on the printout where my reg no. should be and I'm shortly to attend a hearing at the small claims court so it would be very useful to know!!
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 15th Oct 16, 7:09 PM
    • 36,468 Posts
    • 73,302 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 15th Oct 16, 7:09 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Oct 16, 7:09 PM
    I don't know the specific answer, but if you make a statement of truth in court that you did something and you got a ticket without your reg number, then most likely you will be believed, especially as you can show the physical evidence.
    You simply state, the machine was obviously faulty, here is my ticket as proof. If parking lie's system worked properly and the ticket machine was properly linked to ANPR cameras (which is eminently possible) then it should be impossible to enter the wrong VRN, or indeed fail to input a VRN at all, and still get a ticket from the machine.

    You should try to find as many parking lie ANPR/ticket failures as you can from across the country to show that these problems are a regular occurrence.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 15-10-2016 at 7:12 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • timjimlefty
    • By timjimlefty 15th Oct 16, 7:58 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    timjimlefty
    • #3
    • 15th Oct 16, 7:58 PM
    Tower Rd/Fistral Parking Query
    • #3
    • 15th Oct 16, 7:58 PM
    Thank you Fruitcake - I failed to mention that unfortunately due to the 13 day interval, I hadn't kept the ticket... The printout from the machine was sent to me 4 months after the event and only as a response to my defence to the court - I hadn't known at that point what I was defending myself for. The printout - matched with entry and departure photos of my car clearly shows that only I could have deposited that money and that I didn't overstay - it was out of season and no one else came in or out of the car park according to the printout or to my observations around that time. By the way, all along, I had been accused of 'not buying sufficient parking time or overstaying etc' and not of failing to enter my VNR. I was very confused as I clearly remember paying and displaying the ticket so I thought it was the equivalent of a spam or phishing email.
    • Ivor Pecheque
    • By Ivor Pecheque 15th Oct 16, 8:15 PM
    • 682 Posts
    • 1,242 Thanks
    Ivor Pecheque
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 8:15 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 8:15 PM
    Sorry, can't pin things down to a specific day, but loads of technical problems at Fistral..





    Illegitimi non carborundum
    • timjimlefty
    • By timjimlefty 15th Oct 16, 9:18 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    timjimlefty
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 9:18 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 9:18 PM
    Thank you for making me laugh!!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Oct 16, 10:25 PM
    • 40,523 Posts
    • 52,401 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 10:25 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 10:25 PM
    Tower Road Car Park Newquay (parking Eye)
    Please does anyone know whether in March 2016 it was possible to get a ticket from the pay machine without entering my car reg no.

    The thing is that I did get a ticket from the machine and the printout shows that I did because it fits exactly with my entry photos/time to the car park - BUT there is a blank space on the printout where my reg no. should be and I'm shortly to attend a hearing at the small claims court so it would be very useful to know!!
    Originally posted by timjimlefty
    You may wish to email the Parking Prankster (Blogger and sometimes a poster here).

    I am certain we've read about several cases where a ParkingEye machine does print a P&D ticket with no VRN, and bear in mind this could just as easily have been a keypad error, not you! It is certainly a known fault of their system.

    Are you fully up to speed with ParkingEye v Beavis because their solicitor will batter you over the head with it. You need to show that, unlike in the unique commercial situation in the Beavis case, there is no comparable 'legitimate interest' in penalising paying customers for having a paid-for ticket that (for whatever reason) did not record the VRN.

    How would a driver know the ticket the machine spat out was somehow wanting? They wouldn't.

    How does a requirement to enter a VRN in a machine that is linked to ANPR cameras which already hold all the arriving cars VRNs, meet the 'test of fairness' in the Consumer Rights Act? The Act says (in so many words) that UK Courts must consider fairness in every case, whether a defendant has raised it or not.

    Don't get railroaded by the Beavis case.

    Show us your defence statement you submitted at the start when the court papers arrived. Do not argue 'no loss caused'. We hope you didn't try that!

    Have you sent your 'witness statement' and evidence to the court & PE yet? The letter giving your court date states the date by which you must serve this bundle. Are you OK with this, how to do it and what to say? Don't miss a deadline. Start here:

    http://www.bmpa.eu/court.html

    Don't forget, there is no proof what caused this error, may not have been driver omission, far more likely a fault in the system, and your payment is showing on their list.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 15-10-2016 at 10:28 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • timjimlefty
    • By timjimlefty 16th Oct 16, 2:25 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    timjimlefty
    • #7
    • 16th Oct 16, 2:25 PM
    Tower Rd/Fistral Parking Query
    • #7
    • 16th Oct 16, 2:25 PM
    Thanks! Yes all documents, witness statements gone to the court and PE and I've received theirs which only just fitted through the letterbox and loads about Beavis and other successes they have had.
    I asked on here about tickets issued without VNR because I'm not sure whether we put VNR into machine and the ticket it printed didn't have it on. Someone said it won't print a ticket without VNR so I went back to Tower Road to sacrifice £1.50 and to find out. It wouldn't accept the coins. So I was wondering if the machine/system had been changed since March and that before then it would print without VRN. It would bulk up my evidence if so but I have the printout clearly showing I entered the car park at a specific time and a ticket was bought (with blank space where VRN should've been) 4 mins later and photo shows I left before the time expired - and no other tickets were purchased around that time.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Oct 16, 12:48 AM
    • 40,523 Posts
    • 52,401 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 17th Oct 16, 12:48 AM
    • #8
    • 17th Oct 16, 12:48 AM
    So even the fact you could not replicate it may actually help your court argument, I reckon, if you can evidence this.

    I would argue that the claimant has failed to show that the purported 'missing VRN' is not merely a glitch with their server, which seems more likely, seeing as you have attempted to replicate what they've accused the driver of and could not. Seems more likely that the information within the P&D machine failed at that point randomly on that day, issued a ticket but 'lost' the VRN, stopped updating the list of VRNs (from the keypad, the machine must transfer that to an ongoing list). I would suggest to the Judge that, far more likely, there was an interruption of service or a freezing of the system for a second or it malfunctioned in some other way. Certainly these systems are definitely fallible. Remember, anything PE might produce saying they pass the highest of tests and are the same ANPR systems used by NASA and Buckingham Palace (yes really!) is merely about the cameras.

    But be clear, this issue wasn't caused by the cameras, can't have been. The camera did its job it seems.

    The P&D system is a different system than the camera system so could easily have been interrupted by some sort of glitch or outage IMHO which meant the list of VRNs was missing yours. Randomly, you drew the short straw of a ticket printed during a hiccough in the system and you never would have known.

    Not your fault. You paid and displayed in good faith and like I say, your failed attempt to actually do what they accuse you of, works more in your favour (did you record the attempt? I would spend another £1.50 and make a short video of the fact that what PE are saying you did wasn't possible and can only be their system error!).

    So, you did not fail to undertake any obligation at all. There is no evidence that you did, and your video can show the Judge that fault by you isn't possible.

    You need to submit all this evidence prior to the hearing, so if you have time, get that video quickly and email a copy to PE's enforcement team as part of your evidence, and send a copy to the court (clearly marked with the claim number and date of hearing) to be matched with your witness statement. They say anything goes in Small Claims so hopefully the Judge will allow the evidence as long as you don't try to hijack the hearing with it out of the blue.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 17-10-2016 at 12:57 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • timjimlefty
    • By timjimlefty 26th Oct 16, 4:56 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    timjimlefty
    • #9
    • 26th Oct 16, 4:56 PM
    Tower Rd/Fistral Parking Query
    • #9
    • 26th Oct 16, 4:56 PM
    Thank you Coupon-mad, Ivor Peche and Fruitcake for your help and encouragement!!
    I have just got back from the court hearing where the claim against me was dismissed within 10 minutes as I had clearly paid for my ticket. The fact of their being no VRN beside my ticket info on the machine printout was dismissed as in practice one cannot get a ticket without entering a VRN - so it was an unsolved mystery and therefore irrelevant. PE actually admitted they thought I had paid but were hoping to get me on breach of contract over the lack of VRN. The judge was not impressed. What a relief!! I'm glad I resisted their desperate special offer of £75 instead of £175 - made 2 weeks ago in an email...
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 26th Oct 16, 5:31 PM
    • 36,468 Posts
    • 73,302 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Thank you Coupon-mad, Ivor Peche and Fruitcake for your help and encouragement!!
    I have just got back from the court hearing where the claim against me was dismissed within 10 minutes as I had clearly paid for my ticket. The fact of their being no VRN beside my ticket info on the machine printout was dismissed as in practice one cannot get a ticket without entering a VRN - so it was an unsolved mystery and therefore irrelevant. PE actually admitted they thought I had paid but were hoping to get me on breach of contract over the lack of VRN. The judge was not impressed. What a relief!! I'm glad I resisted their desperate special offer of £75 instead of £175 - made 2 weeks ago in an email...
    Originally posted by timjimlefty

    Well done. That's really interesting that a judge has dismissed a case where a ticket was purchased so the operator suffered no loss. That could be quite useful for others.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Oct 16, 12:31 AM
    • 40,523 Posts
    • 52,401 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Thank you Coupon-mad, Ivor Peche and Fruitcake for your help and encouragement!!
    I have just got back from the court hearing where the claim against me was dismissed within 10 minutes as I had clearly paid for my ticket. The fact of their being no VRN beside my ticket info on the machine printout was dismissed as in practice one cannot get a ticket without entering a VRN - so it was an unsolved mystery and therefore irrelevant. PE actually admitted they thought I had paid but were hoping to get me on breach of contract over the lack of VRN. The judge was not impressed. What a relief!! I'm glad I resisted their desperate special offer of £75 instead of £175 - made 2 weeks ago in an email...
    Originally posted by timjimlefty
    Firstly - VERY WELL DONE! This forum is doing well with people seeing off court claims this year, either at a hearing or before! Nice one! I bet you feel so empowered and will be dining out on this story/putting it on facebook etc.!

    Our Newquay local poster, 'Ivorpecheque' will be pleased to read this victory. Did you claim your costs for attending/travel, etc?



    Which case was yours, if you don't mind us asking:

    http://www.bmpa.eu/court.html

    ...and I expect the Parking Prankster would be interested in Blogging about your win, partly because it's about ParkingEye at Tower Road (a real cash cow for them) and because it is yet another one where a Judge was unimpressed that a parking firm was trying to get money from a person who HAD paid and displayed - yet there was a mystery machine glitch - like here with Excel trying the same trick:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/excel-parking-get-gladstonedby-bw-legal.html

    Contact the Prankster: prankster@parking-prankster.com
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 27th Oct 16, 12:51 AM
    • 985 Posts
    • 1,727 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    That's really interesting that a judge has dismissed a case where a ticket was purchased so the operator suffered no loss. That could be quite useful for others.
    "Loss" doesn't come into it. Why do you think that?
    General Election coming up? Your MP worried about his/her job? Give them something to do and get them to sort out these parking cowboys. Search "Theyworkforyou" for the name of your MP.
    • timjimlefty
    • By timjimlefty 27th Oct 16, 5:01 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    timjimlefty
    Tower Rd/Fistral Parking Query
    Thanks - yes it does feel good.
    I will message parking prankster.
    Re BMPA, did you mean send them a message giving claim no and court? I'm happy to do that.
    No! Didn't think I could get any expenses and now know I should have spoken to the judge yesterday though
    nothing can compensate for the hassle due to the behaviour of Parking Eye Ltd over the last 7 months. But to have had it dismissed so quickly was very satisfying in itself...
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 27th Oct 16, 5:08 PM
    • 11,009 Posts
    • 16,432 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    You could write to the judge, while it's now fresh in his/her mind, asking for expenses. Send them in a detailed cost schedule. The worst they can say is 'No', but many have said 'Yes'.

    £19 ph litigant in person rate for research and defending this - be sensible (4-5 hours maybe)
    Capped cover for time off work - max £90 (£95?) - check that out
    Travel costs incurred or if by car, 45p per mile, round trip
    And don't forget any car parking charges while attending court.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 27th Oct 16, 5:14 PM
    • 36,468 Posts
    • 73,302 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    "Loss" doesn't come into it. Why do you think that?
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    Parking lie, by their own admission, thought the defendant had paid, so at the start they thought they had made no loss.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
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