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    • sm95
    • By sm95 15th Oct 16, 5:15 PM
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    • 3Thanks
    sm95
    Hand written permit instead of printed - Horizon
    • #1
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:15 PM
    Hand written permit instead of printed - Horizon 15th Oct 16 at 5:15 PM
    I'd just received my first parking ticket yesterday morning and I'm unsure how to proceed.

    I paid for and generated a full day permit for my university car park the night before and wrote out the details word for word onto a piece of paper instead of printing it out (includes booking reference, car reg and 'validation'). I've been doing this for a while and never gotten a ticket.

    So I had this displayed, went to my lecture, came back about 2 hours later and a warden was printing out a ticket and told me that I'm not allowed to have hand written permits because if they allowed that then "everyone would just write out fake permits and they have no way of checking if it's real" and said that this is clearly mentioned on the permit T&Cs.

    puu.sh/rJSUY/c1bdb2a902.jpg as you can see there's no mention of the permit needing to be printed, although it does mention this on the university permit website about half way down the FAQs page, so not really common knowledge.

    The PCN company in question is Horizon Parking, I had a read through the sticky, they're an AOS member with the BPA.

    My question is, do I need to wait 3 weeks before appealing? And should I copy the template to get a rejection/POPLA code or would I have a legitimate chance of them dismissing it as I actually had paid for a permit to park on that day?

    Thank you very much!
    Last edited by sm95; 15-10-2016 at 5:19 PM.
Page 1
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 15th Oct 16, 5:18 PM
    • 24,250 Posts
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    peter_the_piper
    • #2
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:18 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:18 PM
    Why did you not print it?
    Millies due back at Christmas.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 15th Oct 16, 5:19 PM
    • 36,411 Posts
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    Fruitcake
    • #3
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:19 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:19 PM
    You should amend your post to remove information about who was driving.

    The keeper should appeal around day 26 using the BPA template in blue, exactly as it says in the NEWBIES.

    The keeper can be either the registered keeper, or the keeper on the day of the alleged event, who may or may not be the registered keeper.

    Do not mention who was driving under any circumstances.

    Save other info about no mention of the permit having to be printed for PoPLA.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 15th Oct 16, 5:21 PM
    • 36,411 Posts
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    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:21 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:21 PM
    http://puu.sh/rJSUY/c1bdb2a902.jpg

    The notice says payment will be deducted once the permit has been printed. How did you make payment if you didn't print a copy.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 15-10-2016 at 7:42 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • sm95
    • By sm95 15th Oct 16, 5:24 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    sm95
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:24 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:24 PM
    Why did you not print it?
    Originally posted by peter_the_piper
    My printer's not been working for a while, I'd print them out occasionally at uni when I had a chance otherwise I'd just write them down the night before

    You should amend your post to remove information about who was driving.

    The keeper should appeal around day 26 using the BPA template in blue, exactly as it says in the NEWBIES.

    The keeper can be either the registered keeper, or the keeper on the day of the alleged event, who may or may not be the registered keeper.

    Do not mention who was driving under any circumstances.

    Save other info about no mention of the permit having to be printed for PoPLA.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Okay thank you! Should I include scans of an actual permit and my handwritten one when appealing to PoPLA?
    • sm95
    • By sm95 15th Oct 16, 5:26 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    sm95
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:26 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:26 PM

    The notice says payment will be deducted once the permit has been printed. How did you make payment if you didn't print a copy.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    I'm not sure why they've put that, the way the system works is you pay for x amount of vouchers and then go to the booking page and select the date(s) needed after which you can generate them (single days or all together) and you're emailed a PDF of the permit which you can then print
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 15th Oct 16, 7:37 PM
    • 36,411 Posts
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    Fruitcake
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 7:37 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 7:37 PM
    My printer's not been working for a while, I'd print them out occasionally at uni when I had a chance otherwise I'd just write them down the night before


    Okay thank you! Should I include scans of an actual permit and my handwritten one when appealing to PoPLA?
    Originally posted by sm95
    If you have proof that you paid for a permit for the driver, and there is nothing stating it must be printed, then you can mention that this is what the driver did, along with all the other standard appeal points. However, you are at the initial appeal stage so it's just a copy and paste and send exercise at the moment.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 15th Oct 16, 7:41 PM
    • 36,411 Posts
    • 73,194 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 7:41 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 7:41 PM
    I'm not sure why they've put that, the way the system works is you pay for x amount of vouchers and then go to the booking page and select the date(s) needed after which you can generate them (single days or all together) and you're emailed a PDF of the permit which you can then print
    Originally posted by sm95
    Can you access the proof of payment page, or did you take a screenshot perhaps? This would at least show that you paid. Bank/card statements can also be used for proof of payment.

    Have you complained to the landowner?
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • sm95
    • By sm95 15th Oct 16, 8:04 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    sm95
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 8:04 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 8:04 PM
    Can you access the proof of payment page, or did you take a screenshot perhaps? This would at least show that you paid. Bank/card statements can also be used for proof of payment.

    Have you complained to the landowner?
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    yeah I'm able to take a screenshot of the permit site to prove a permit was purchased, booked and generated and also back it up with a bank statement.

    I haven't complained yet but tbh I only just noticed on the website's main page it says "You will need to print out the permit and clearly display it on your vehicle's dashboard on the days you have booked to park on campus."

    puu.sh/rK2vN/344669a0b9.png

    Could I argue that it doesn't clearly mention that the permit is only valid if printed or just the website in general isn't that clear or just something along those lines? Seeing as it doesn't mention something like "this permit is only valid if printed" on the T&C's on the actual permit itself too
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 15th Oct 16, 8:31 PM
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    Fruitcake
    You could say that having to print the permit is an unfair clause as not everyone has access to a printer.

    However, for the purposes of the appeals it doesn't really matter. You will win on technical legal points, not whether the permit was hand carved in stone or scribed on vellum.

    Just follow the NEWBIES process. Proving you have paid is a bonus, but not essential to win.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • sm95
    • By sm95 15th Oct 16, 9:02 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    sm95
    You could say that having to print the permit is an unfair clause as not everyone has access to a printer.

    However, for the purposes of the appeals it doesn't really matter. You will win on technical legal points, not whether the permit was hand carved in stone or scribed on vellum.

    Just follow the NEWBIES process. Proving you have paid is a bonus, but not essential to win.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    would it make a difference if I write a somewhat actual appeal to Horizon first instead of the template? A friend just told me something similar happened to him and he was let off with a warning as it was the first offense, as is mine.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Oct 16, 9:15 PM
    • 40,339 Posts
    • 52,175 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You could certainly write your own appeal, but please please please do not say who was driving or who wrote out the piece of paper or who went to the lecture then returned & spoke to the employee ticketing drone.

    You look in danger of throwing away your winning appeal point of 'no keeper liability' the way you are so focussed on telling the story. Looks like you will imply who was driving so please don't submit anything without showing us the draft first.

    Basically write it in the third person when talking about the 'driver'. And don't do it yet, 26 days in, the reason for waiting is given in the NEWBIES thread and again protects your best appeal point, no keeper liability. Horizon don't issue any NTK (usually) in cases where a person appeals just before the 28th day, so then you win due to no NTK.

    An admitted driver throws ALL that in the bin!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • sm95
    • By sm95 17th Oct 16, 7:07 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    sm95
    You could certainly write your own appeal, but please please please do not say who was driving or who wrote out the piece of paper or who went to the lecture then returned & spoke to the employee ticketing drone.

    You look in danger of throwing away your winning appeal point of 'no keeper liability' the way you are so focussed on telling the story. Looks like you will imply who was driving so please don't submit anything without showing us the draft first.

    Basically write it in the third person when talking about the 'driver'. And don't do it yet, 26 days in, the reason for waiting is given in the NEWBIES thread and again protects your best appeal point, no keeper liability. Horizon don't issue any NTK (usually) in cases where a person appeals just before the 28th day, so then you win due to no NTK.

    An admitted driver throws ALL that in the bin!
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Okay thank you for that, I'll wait it out and I'll post back with a draft of what I'll send closer to the date.

    So if the ticket was received on 14/10, the 26th day to appeal would be 08/11 correct?

    Thank you again!
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 17th Oct 16, 7:38 PM
    • 36,411 Posts
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    Fruitcake
    Okay thank you for that, I'll wait it out and I'll post back with a draft of what I'll send closer to the date.

    So if the ticket was received on 14/10, the 26th day to appeal would be 08/11 correct?

    Thank you again!
    Originally posted by sm95
    The date of the alleged event is day zero, so day 26 would be the 9th, but it is more important that you don't miss the deadline than sending it on day 25 or 26.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
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