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  • FIRST POST
    • Ruby789
    • By Ruby789 15th Oct 16, 4:41 PM
    • 307Posts
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    Ruby789
    Flooring
    • #1
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:41 PM
    Flooring 15th Oct 16 at 4:41 PM
    Hi all,


    I'm about to buy my first flat and have just seen the lease.

    It says: maintain adequate close carpeting with underfelt or underlay throughout the demised premises or take such other steps in relation to the composition or covering of the floors of the premises as the lessor may reasonably deem adequate having regard to the peace and quiet of the occupants in the block or in accordance with any relevant building regulation".

    It is currently carpeted. I want laminate, underlay (decimal reducing), and area rugs. According to what I can see on rightmove/zoopla, flats in that block all have laminate, except the one I'm buying. The survey says the floor is concrete (first floor, purpose built block, 1990's build).

    So I think that the soundproofing underlay and rugs are adequate measures? And I don't wear shoes at home but would be considerate anyway.

    Thoughts?
    Debt free (finally) and saving a deposit for my first home.
Page 1
    • boliston
    • By boliston 15th Oct 16, 5:37 PM
    • 1,744 Posts
    • 1,293 Thanks
    boliston
    • #2
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:37 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:37 PM
    I think some leases actually make carpet compulsory so this one sounds a bit more flexible. Tenants need protecting against someone laying a really cheap and nasty laminate with the cheapest possible non-acoustic underlay and making life hell for those underneath.
    • Ruby789
    • By Ruby789 15th Oct 16, 6:27 PM
    • 307 Posts
    • 513 Thanks
    Ruby789
    • #3
    • 15th Oct 16, 6:27 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Oct 16, 6:27 PM
    Thanks. It does sound a bit more flexible doesn't it. I certainly read it that way.


    I don't want to annoy the flat below. When I was hunting, most of the flats were laminate. I assume this means that the newer underlay's on the market do a good job.


    I've lived under flats with laminate and not heard much of anything. Perhaps I've been lucky.
    Debt free (finally) and saving a deposit for my first home.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 15th Oct 16, 6:47 PM
    • 37,076 Posts
    • 41,018 Thanks
    G_M
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 6:47 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 6:47 PM
    You'll only find out if there's an issue if/when the people below complain.

    If they don't complain, no one will know, or care, what flooring you have.

    So long as you appreciate what you are getting into and understand that the asolute worst case would be a complaint, followed by an inflexible freeholder insisting you take some further action re flooring.
    • Ruby789
    • By Ruby789 15th Oct 16, 6:59 PM
    • 307 Posts
    • 513 Thanks
    Ruby789
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 6:59 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 6:59 PM
    Thanks. Would there be any point in asking the solicitor to check if the flooring I have in mind fits their definition of 'adequate'?


    Even if it passes the adequate test, if the person below tells me its a problem then obviously i'll deal with their complaints. I don't want to make people miserable.
    Debt free (finally) and saving a deposit for my first home.
    • Onawingandaprayer
    • By Onawingandaprayer 15th Oct 16, 7:18 PM
    • 585 Posts
    • 467 Thanks
    Onawingandaprayer
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 7:18 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 7:18 PM
    We're in EXACTLY the same situation and currently pondering just what to do. Our lease wording though isn't as generous as yours, and doesn't have an 'or'. However it's clearly written decades ago - pre-Sky dishes and stipulates that we're 'not to permit a person of unsound mind or a drunkard or one who leads an immoral life' into the premises. (which rather negates most of our friends...)

    Any advice gratefully received (re the flooring, not the drunks etc.)
    • G_M
    • By G_M 15th Oct 16, 8:15 PM
    • 37,076 Posts
    • 41,018 Thanks
    G_M
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 8:15 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 8:15 PM
    Thanks. Would there be any point in asking the solicitor to check if the flooring I have in mind fits their definition of 'adequate'?


    Even if it passes the adequate test, if the person below tells me its a problem then obviously i'll deal with their complaints. I don't want to make people miserable.
    Originally posted by Ruby789
    Depending on the freeholder, or management company, you might
    * get a quick reply within a week
    * wait 1 month - 6 months for a reply
    * never get a reply
    * have to pay for a reply

    The 'adequate' test might actually depend not on the specific floor covering, but on whether the person below complains or not!
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 15th Oct 16, 8:33 PM
    • 3,878 Posts
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    davidmcn
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 8:33 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 8:33 PM
    I'm not entirely sure how to interpret that clause but I think it's arguable that it means (adding some numbering and spacing):
    (1) maintain adequate close carpeting with underfelt or underlay throughout the demised premises or

    (2) take such other steps in relation to the composition or covering of the floors of the premises:

    (a) as the lessor may reasonably deem adequate having regard to the peace and quiet of the occupants in the block or

    (b) in accordance with any relevant building regulation".
    i.e. you don't need to seek consent as long as you're complying with building regulations (though I don't know what the relevant regulations require, and whether that means you need to adhere to current standards rather than those from whenever the flat was built).
    • Ruby789
    • By Ruby789 15th Oct 16, 9:20 PM
    • 307 Posts
    • 513 Thanks
    Ruby789
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 9:20 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 9:20 PM
    stipulates that we're 'not to permit a person of unsound mind or a drunkard or one who leads an immoral life' into the premises. (which rather negates most of our friends....)
    Originally posted by Onawingandaprayer

    Haha. Have something similar in mine, but yours has perfect phrasing!
    Debt free (finally) and saving a deposit for my first home.
    • Ruby789
    • By Ruby789 15th Oct 16, 9:36 PM
    • 307 Posts
    • 513 Thanks
    Ruby789
    Thanks for the tip about building regulations. I found something from 2003, but it doesn't reference floor coverings. Just the floor construction. I'll keep looking.


    It sounds like I can have the floor I want as long as I make provisions to limit its impact on downstairs. Rugs, felt pads on the bottom of all furniture, and no shoes.


    And the wording is vague enough that I shouldn't have the problem of being accused of breach of lease when I go to sell it.
    Debt free (finally) and saving a deposit for my first home.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 16th Oct 16, 9:16 AM
    • 22,257 Posts
    • 63,097 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    There are no building regulations for floor coverings, so I'd stop looking!
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • exiled_red
    • By exiled_red 16th Oct 16, 9:38 AM
    • 108 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    exiled_red
    Sound proofing underlay and area rugs seem like reasonable steps to me, I would hope that most people would deem that adequate.
    • Ruby789
    • By Ruby789 16th Oct 16, 1:19 PM
    • 307 Posts
    • 513 Thanks
    Ruby789
    Thanks everyone, I feel much better knowing you all read it the same way.
    Debt free (finally) and saving a deposit for my first home.
    • phill99
    • By phill99 16th Oct 16, 1:55 PM
    • 7,606 Posts
    • 6,837 Thanks
    phill99
    You need to use an acoustic underlay. These are specifically designed to reduce sounds transmission through laminate flooring.


    Bit more expensive but will get over this problem.
    Eat vegetables and fear no creditors, rather than eat duck and hide.
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