Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • darkh0rse
    • By darkh0rse 15th Oct 16, 4:37 PM
    • 51Posts
    • 41Thanks
    darkh0rse
    Marks & Spencer created a financial association on a non-joint application
    • #1
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:37 PM
    Marks & Spencer created a financial association on a non-joint application 15th Oct 16 at 4:37 PM
    Hi

    My girlfriend applied for an M&S Money Credit card in 2014. She got rejected.

    Two years on I have discovered M&S linked us financially from this application.

    M&S replied:
    "When a customer applies for a product such as a credit card with ourselves, we ask if they wish to include their partner’s details in the application. This can assist us in our decision making process. This is not a joint application but does create an association on both of their credit files."

    I am furious. How can they do this? How can an application which isn't joint create a permanent association?

    Is this one for the ombudsman?

    Thanks
Page 1
    • GingerBob
    • By GingerBob 15th Oct 16, 4:44 PM
    • 3,020 Posts
    • 1,276 Thanks
    GingerBob
    • #2
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:44 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:44 PM
    Hi

    My girlfriend applied for an M&S Money Credit card in 2014. She got rejected.

    Two years on I have discovered M&S linked us financially from this application.

    M&S replied:
    "When a customer applies for a product such as a credit card with ourselves, we ask if they wish to include their partner’s details in the application. This can assist us in our decision making process. This is not a joint application but does create an association on both of their credit files."

    I am furious. How can they do this? How can an application which isn't joint create a permanent association?

    Is this one for the ombudsman?

    Thanks
    Originally posted by darkh0rse

    Yes, the ombudsman, the ICO and your MP. It is CRA malpractice at its worst. I read somewhere - I think on Experian's website - that credit card applications do not result in financial associations. They explained this by saying that only joint accounts do so. However, the CRAs don't give a monkeys and if some merchant tells them there's a financial association they don't check the circumstances and go ahead and create it, and then publish the details. Quite deplorable. I urge you to take the strongest possible remedial action against the CRAs that are publishing these lies about you.
    • darkh0rse
    • By darkh0rse 15th Oct 16, 4:49 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 41 Thanks
    darkh0rse
    • #3
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:49 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:49 PM
    Thanks, I will do so.

    Isn't the finger of blame more on M&S though as opposed to the agencies? M&S created the association (without any permission or paperwork from me) and the CRA didn't check.
    • GingerBob
    • By GingerBob 15th Oct 16, 4:54 PM
    • 3,020 Posts
    • 1,276 Thanks
    GingerBob
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:54 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:54 PM
    Thanks, I will do so.

    Isn't the finger of blame more on M&S though as opposed to the agencies? M&S created the association (without any permission or paperwork from me) and the CRA didn't check.
    Originally posted by darkh0rse

    I would say 40% M&S at fault, 60% the CRAs at fault.


    The CRAs have set themselves up as the "guardians" of our financial data, yet they don't even QA it when it's submitted to them. This really is a simple check for them: joint accounts can't be established on credit card accounts, so don't let merchants file an association for such an account. It pretty simple stuff, but apparently the CRAs can't understand it.
    • darkh0rse
    • By darkh0rse 15th Oct 16, 5:04 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 41 Thanks
    darkh0rse
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:04 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:04 PM
    Thanks. I have replied to M&S and Experian regarding their failures, notifying them I will be making a further complaint, and will make contact with the Ombudsman and ICO when I have more time in the week.

    Cheers
    • boliston
    • By boliston 15th Oct 16, 5:09 PM
    • 1,735 Posts
    • 1,277 Thanks
    boliston
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:09 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:09 PM
    It seems wrong that anyone can apply for credit and add the details of a third party without that person authorising those details being used.
    • ukamber1
    • By ukamber1 15th Oct 16, 5:09 PM
    • 76 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    ukamber1
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:09 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:09 PM
    Thanks. I have replied to M&S and Experian regarding their failures, notifying them I will be making a further complaint, and will make contact with the Ombudsman and ICO when I have more time in the week.

    Cheers
    Originally posted by darkh0rse
    Worth checking Equifax and callcredit as well, as a good chance they are also showing the same link. If you complete a "financial disassociation" form, with each agency that will also remove the link, if M&S are not very helpful....
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 15th Oct 16, 5:39 PM
    • 51,214 Posts
    • 42,993 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:39 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:39 PM
    When a customer applies for a product such as a credit card with ourselves, we ask if they wish to include their partner’s details in the application
    Was this the case? i.e. you could have a card on the account.
    “A man is rich who lives upon what he has. A man is poor who lives upon what is coming. A prudent man lives within his income, and saves against ‘a rainy day’.”
    • darkh0rse
    • By darkh0rse 15th Oct 16, 5:42 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 41 Thanks
    darkh0rse
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:42 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:42 PM
    Yes my gf must have entered my details.

    It was an unsuccessful application, but, It was not a joint application either and I wasn't due to be an additional cardholder.
    • YorkshireBoy
    • By YorkshireBoy 15th Oct 16, 5:50 PM
    • 28,271 Posts
    • 16,094 Thanks
    YorkshireBoy
    Yes my gf must have entered my details.
    Originally posted by darkh0rse
    So there's your reason for getting the association removed by M&S then. You make a formal complaint citing this.

    Obviously your girlfriend may then get a CIFAS marker for 'application fraud', because in making the application she confirmed she had your permission to enter your details and create the association...when she didn't!
    • darkh0rse
    • By darkh0rse 15th Oct 16, 5:53 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 41 Thanks
    darkh0rse
    Well this is where it gets interesting. At no point were we aware it would impact on credit rating, never mind becoming a financial association. M&S said themselves "This is not a joint application".

    She has never done this before or since so I have no reason to doubt she was misled by M&S.
    • boliston
    • By boliston 15th Oct 16, 5:57 PM
    • 1,735 Posts
    • 1,277 Thanks
    boliston
    So there's your reason for getting the association removed by M&S then. You make a formal complaint citing this.

    Obviously your girlfriend may then get a CIFAS marker for 'application fraud', because in making the application she confirmed she had your permission to enter your details and create the association...when she didn't!
    Originally posted by YorkshireBoy
    That would seem unfair because the credit supplier should have obtained signatures for both parties, especially if the box was just one of many requiring ticking which people might not fully read. Fraud would imply supplying incorrect details such as a false name or other false details.
    • YorkshireBoy
    • By YorkshireBoy 15th Oct 16, 5:59 PM
    • 28,271 Posts
    • 16,094 Thanks
    YorkshireBoy
    Well this is where it gets interesting. At no point were we aware it would impact on credit rating, never mind becoming a financial association.
    Originally posted by darkh0rse
    You were actually. She (and you) chose not to read the documents she (and you) were presented with during the application. Of course she said she had, but she hadn't.

    I'm a little confused though. Earlier you speculated that she must have included your details (ie you didn't know), whereas now you say "we weren't aware"...indicating you were present when the application was made. Which is it?

    But this is nothing new. M&S have been doing this for years, and the documents she should have read at the time are still on their website (I've just checked).
    Last edited by YorkshireBoy; 15-10-2016 at 6:05 PM.
    • YorkshireBoy
    • By YorkshireBoy 15th Oct 16, 6:02 PM
    • 28,271 Posts
    • 16,094 Thanks
    YorkshireBoy
    That would seem unfair because the credit supplier should have obtained signatures for both parties, especially if the box was just one of many requiring ticking which people might not fully read. Fraud would imply supplying incorrect details such as a false name or other false details.
    Originally posted by boliston
    Application fraud: Material falsehood


    Including someone else's information, including salary, without their permission, in order to increase chances of acceptance/decent limit. They may class that as deception to gain a pecuniary advantage?
    • darkh0rse
    • By darkh0rse 15th Oct 16, 6:04 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 41 Thanks
    darkh0rse
    Their T&Cs state

    "If you make a joint application for a current account or credit, an
    association linking your financial records with those the other
    joint applicant(s) will be created by credit reference agencies. "

    We did not make a joint application.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 15th Oct 16, 6:12 PM
    • 51,214 Posts
    • 42,993 Thanks
    Thrugelmir


    I am furious. How can they do this? How can an application which isn't joint create a permanent association?
    Originally posted by darkh0rse
    Then add a notice of correction to the credit file against the account.

    Hard to believe that your g/f would have applied for a second card in your name without your knowledge. As would serve no purpose. I doubt you've anything substantive to evidence otherwise. So the FOS would rule on probability and the fact that card issuer has been totally clear as to what was involved.
    “A man is rich who lives upon what he has. A man is poor who lives upon what is coming. A prudent man lives within his income, and saves against ‘a rainy day’.”
    • darkh0rse
    • By darkh0rse 15th Oct 16, 6:16 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 41 Thanks
    darkh0rse
    The question on the application form online says

    "Would you like your partner to be an additional cardholder?
    If yes, please complete their details below."
    I pressed "no" and entered no details and I was allowed to proceed.
    It is also possible to press no whilst still completing partner details.

    So perhaps she misread, press no, and completed my details.

    From their T&Cs
    Where a joint personal application is made a new financial
    association will be created and registered with the credit reference
    agency, if this does not already exist.
    We didn't make a joint application.

    If you apply for a product or service with another person and
    they are not present you are declaring that you are entitled to
    disclose information about your fellow applicant and you authorise
    us to search, associate and/or record information at credit reference
    agencies about you and your fellow applicant.
    We didn't do this either.
    • GingerBob
    • By GingerBob 15th Oct 16, 6:40 PM
    • 3,020 Posts
    • 1,276 Thanks
    GingerBob
    Does it say anywhere in the M&S T&Cs that if you request a secondary card for your partner this will create a financial association? It certainly doesn't say it on the screen where they invite you to apply for such a secondary card (I just put in a dummy application as far as that screen). Of course it should have it on that screen in big red letters, but it doesn't.


    Further: as someone above pointed out - here is the wording from their T&Cs:


    If you make a joint application for a current account or credit, an
    association linking your financial records with those the other
    joint applicant(s) will be created by credit reference agencies


    With regard to credit CARDS the statement is criminally ambiguous.


    What the hell is the rule here? Is there even a rule (silly question)?
    Last edited by GingerBob; 15-10-2016 at 6:44 PM. Reason: Add
    • boliston
    • By boliston 15th Oct 16, 8:03 PM
    • 1,735 Posts
    • 1,277 Thanks
    boliston
    Application fraud: Material falsehood


    Including someone else's information, including salary, without their permission, in order to increase chances of acceptance/decent limit. They may class that as deception to gain a pecuniary advantage?
    Originally posted by YorkshireBoy
    How would someone know for certain the salary of a third party?
    • SnowTiger
    • By SnowTiger 15th Oct 16, 11:14 PM
    • 2,779 Posts
    • 1,771 Thanks
    SnowTiger
    Further: as someone above pointed out - here is the wording from their T&Cs:

    If you make a joint application for a current account or credit, an
    association linking your financial records with those the other
    joint applicant(s) will be created by credit reference agencies


    With regard to credit CARDS the statement is criminally ambiguous.

    What the hell is the rule here? Is there even a rule (silly question)?
    Originally posted by GingerBob
    That appears to be part of M&S Bank's general T&Cs, which have been appended to their specific credit card T&Cs.

    It's not possible to make a joint credit card application. I assume to word credit in the quote you mention refers to an overdraft or loan.

    The T&Cs also contain this:

    Your responsibilities
    • Before you provide any Personal Data or Tax Information about a Connected Person to any member of the HSBC Group, you must first tell them about, and obtain their agreement to, their information being used, transferred and disclosed as set out above. You must also tell them that they can access and correct their information.

    GLOSSARY

    “Connected Person” means any natural person or legal entity (other than you) whose information (including Personal Data or Tax Information) you provide, or which is provided on your behalf, to any member of the HSBC Group...
    Also, on the application page:

    Checking your details expanded

    When we check your details with a credit reference agency, a search/enquiry is registered to say that you've applied for credit today. As part of our checks, we link your name with individuals associated with you financially, and any previous names you've provided.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

4,523Posts Today

3,965Users online

Martin's Twitter