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  • FIRST POST
    • theone999
    • By theone999 15th Oct 16, 1:22 PM
    • 95Posts
    • 28Thanks
    theone999
    not paying back / delaying paying back money "sent to wrong payee"
    • #1
    • 15th Oct 16, 1:22 PM
    not paying back / delaying paying back money "sent to wrong payee" 15th Oct 16 at 1:22 PM
    My bank is HSBC, which has sent me a letter detailing a request from Lloyds for request of authorising a debit for money sent to "wrong payee from list".

    Am I allowed to simply write back to HSBC saying, "authorisation not given"? without giving a reason or explanation.

    What would happen next if I flat out refused to hand the money back through the HSBC letter procedure?

    If it goes to court, I will lose. But what I want is to drag it out as long as possible and hope the other party stops on account of cost / hassle. The sum of money involved is under £100. I know that one way to stop HSBC from debiting my account is to ensure my account has less the credit of the sum involved. But as HSBC is monitoring my balance/payments in/overdraft, that option is not a good one.

    What are the possible outcomes of happening next and how can I drag out paying back as long as possible without it affecting my credit rating or incurring additiona costs?

    While this post makes me sound like an absolute !!!! (just pay them already!), I have multiple borrowings from multiple banks all of which are on my !!! and I have rent arrears greater than the sum of all credit and balances that I have.
    Last edited by theone999; 15-10-2016 at 1:28 PM.
Page 1
    • Saver-upper
    • By Saver-upper 15th Oct 16, 1:35 PM
    • 1,263 Posts
    • 9,577 Thanks
    Saver-upper
    • #2
    • 15th Oct 16, 1:35 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Oct 16, 1:35 PM
    Apart from the fact that it does make you sound like a tosser,WHY??For the sake of less than £100,is it really worth the hassle?
    What makes you think HSBC wouldn't take the money and leave your account in unauthorised overdraft?I don't think they would really care if your account went into overdraft-more money (fees) for them,isn't it?
    But if you think it is worth it....
    Roadkill Rebel #14,2016:£35.50 £12,000in2016 #82=£2313
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    • iolanthe07
    • By iolanthe07 15th Oct 16, 1:48 PM
    • 4,662 Posts
    • 4,428 Thanks
    iolanthe07
    • #3
    • 15th Oct 16, 1:48 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Oct 16, 1:48 PM
    If the money isn't yours, then of course you should return it immediately. What on earth has become of us?
    I used to think that good grammar is important, but now I know that good wine is importanter.
    • ERICS MUM
    • By ERICS MUM 15th Oct 16, 1:49 PM
    • 3,161 Posts
    • 5,934 Thanks
    ERICS MUM
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 1:49 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 1:49 PM
    The only party in this saga to lose out will be the person who sent the money to the wrong account in the first place. They won't get their money back until you pay it back. The banks are just the go-betweens.
    • Karonher
    • By Karonher 15th Oct 16, 2:02 PM
    • 331 Posts
    • 1,760 Thanks
    Karonher
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:02 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:02 PM
    Pay it back - it's not yours. Why do you think people will help you to be dishonest?

    It's one thing to not be able to pay what you owe and want help but totally different to try and keep someone elses money. You moan about your situation and yet want to make it difficult for someone else.
    Getting ready for Christmas 2016

    Aiming to make £3,500 online in 2016.
    • theone999
    • By theone999 15th Oct 16, 2:20 PM
    • 95 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    theone999
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:20 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:20 PM
    Apart from the fact that it does make you sound like a tosser,WHY??For the sake of less than £100,is it really worth the hassle?
    What makes you think HSBC wouldn't take the money and leave your account in unauthorised overdraft?I don't think they would really care if your account went into overdraft-more money (fees) for them,isn't it?
    But if you think it is worth it....
    Originally posted by Saver-upper
    because the lettering of the letter says so. if you want to be sarcastic, try harder. is it worth the hassle? clearly yes, or I wouldn't have bothered asking.
    • theone999
    • By theone999 15th Oct 16, 2:22 PM
    • 95 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    theone999
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:22 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:22 PM
    Pay it back - it's not yours. Why do you think people will help you to be dishonest?

    It's one thing to not be able to pay what you owe and want help but totally different to try and keep someone elses money. You moan about your situation and yet want to make it difficult for someone else.
    Originally posted by Karonher
    did you not read the bit about my rent arrears? I am paying various parties back. when you're short on money, it goes on an order of priority. just because I have some credit in an account doesn't mean I don't have debt elsewhere which is more important.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 15th Oct 16, 2:23 PM
    • 8,380 Posts
    • 8,211 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:23 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:23 PM
    Hi,

    So someone has made a payment to your bank account in error, is that whats happened here ?

    Is there any dispute arising from this payment ?

    Is it an individual, or a company ?

    For free debt advice please call National Debtline on
    0808 808 4000
    Monday to Friday
    9am to 9pm
    Saturday 9.30am to 1pm
    • theone999
    • By theone999 15th Oct 16, 2:26 PM
    • 95 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    theone999
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:26 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:26 PM
    Hi,

    So someone has made a payment to your bank account in error, is that whats happened here ?

    Is there any dispute arising from this payment ?

    Is it an individual, or a company ?
    Originally posted by sourcrates
    it's a company. i used to work for them. all the people above are being utter arseholes, I haven't said I would never pay it back or go all the way to court. I simply want to explore every avenue to push paying back as late as possible. what part of prioritising debt repayments does people on this subsection not understand.

    I only saw the letter piled up this morning and the bank wants it done within 7 working days, ie next week now. timescale is too short.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 15th Oct 16, 2:33 PM
    • 8,380 Posts
    • 8,211 Thanks
    sourcrates
    it's a company. i used to work for them. all the people above are being utter arseholes, I haven't said I would never pay it back or go all the way to court. I simply want to explore every avenue to push paying back as late as possible. what part of prioritising debt repayments does people on this subsection not understand.

    I only saw the letter piled up this morning and the bank wants it done within 7 working days, ie next week now. timescale is too short.
    Originally posted by theone999
    Ah, ok, I understand you now.

    Your original post could of been worded a little differently, because people always jump to the worst conclusions.

    Yes in your situation i would string it out as long as possible, offer them £1 a month, your priority debts ALWAYS come first before any other debt.

    It is best to communicate with the people you owe money to, just keep them in the loop, and pay what you can, when you can.

    The Bank cannot take money from your account without permission or a court order.
    Last edited by sourcrates; 15-10-2016 at 2:36 PM.

    For free debt advice please call National Debtline on
    0808 808 4000
    Monday to Friday
    9am to 9pm
    Saturday 9.30am to 1pm
    • theone999
    • By theone999 15th Oct 16, 2:36 PM
    • 95 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    theone999
    Ah, ok, I understand you now.

    Your original post could of been worded a little differently, because people always jump to the worst conclusions.

    Yes in your situation i would string it out as long as possible, offer them £1 a month, your priority debts ALWAYS come first before any other debt.

    It is best to communicate with the people you owe money to, just keep them in the loop, and pay what you can, when you can.
    Originally posted by sourcrates
    right, but how should I deal with the bank first as it is HSBC which has sent me the letter and Llyods which has made the request. as i'm already under monitoring and trying to keep my head above water, i do not wish to voluntarily reveal I have rent arrears or payments elsewhere to my bank, lest the bank pulls the plug and I'd be multiple times !!!!ed.

    *do I go to Lloyds and offer them £1 a month?
    *the company?
    *do I tell HSBC to dispute the payment? as no proof has been offered as it's an automatic process. which would be the first step in pushing it back?
    Last edited by theone999; 15-10-2016 at 2:42 PM.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 15th Oct 16, 2:47 PM
    • 8,380 Posts
    • 8,211 Thanks
    sourcrates
    I would respond to the Letter you have been sent.

    Tell them, you have so far not received proof of the debt been owed, and you are not in a position to pay the debt in full anyway, so therefore cannot comply with there request at present.

    Now that should, essentially, take the banks out of the loop, the dispute will then be between you, and your ex employer, who, I would assume, will write to you directly asking for the money back.

    Its at that point you should seek proof of the debt, and if found to be owed, make them some offer of payment, whatever you can afford, they will either accept it, or not, but you should pay them regardless.

    Now you say you have other debts you are struggling with, have you contacted one of the free debt charities for help and advice, such as stepchange or National Debtline ?
    Last edited by sourcrates; 15-10-2016 at 2:50 PM.

    For free debt advice please call National Debtline on
    0808 808 4000
    Monday to Friday
    9am to 9pm
    Saturday 9.30am to 1pm
    • theone999
    • By theone999 15th Oct 16, 2:56 PM
    • 95 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    theone999
    I would respond to the Letter you have been sent.

    Tell them, you have so far not received proof of the debt been owed, and you are not in a position to pay the debt in full anyway, so therefore cannot comply with there request at present.

    Now that should, essentially, take the banks out of the loop, the dispute will then be between you, and your ex employer, who, I would assume, will write to you directly asking for the money back.

    Its at that point you should make them some offer of payment, whatever you can afford, they will either accept it, or not, but you should pay them regardless.

    Now you say you have other debts you are struggling with, have you contacted one of the free debt charities for help and advice, such as stepchange or National Debtline ?
    Originally posted by sourcrates
    rather than saying I can't pay the debt in full when clearly I have the credit balance in that account, it's just that I have obligations elsewhere such as rent or business invoices (as I'm now self employed). would it be just as well to write to HSBC and say that it was an ex-business dealing in dispute and there cannot be any authorisation without formal proof offered to my self indepedently of an automatic bank process and instruct Lloyds to instruct the other party to contact me directly? that should take the banks out of the loop right?

    I don't wish to contact any charities and ask them to contact my bank. As I am hoping to meet the bank's monitoring criteria on my account and ride out of the storm (as I now have an income). I recently became self employed and will only pay off the starting up costs after the end of this month.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 15th Oct 16, 3:02 PM
    • 8,380 Posts
    • 8,211 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Yes you can word it as you see fit, just because you have a credit balance does not mean you can afford to pay the debt in full, as you say, we all have financial obligations, and the Bank will recognize this fact.

    I am a little confused as to how, or why, the banks have become involved at all, usually an ex employer would of written directly to you asking for the money back ?

    For free debt advice please call National Debtline on
    0808 808 4000
    Monday to Friday
    9am to 9pm
    Saturday 9.30am to 1pm
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 15th Oct 16, 3:13 PM
    • 55,996 Posts
    • 321,764 Thanks
    PasturesNew
    .... I want is to drag it out as long as possible and hope the other party stops on account of cost / hassle. ...
    Originally posted by theone999
    The little 85 year old widow weeps into her battered purse as she stares at the two £1 coins and wonders how much food she can buy for the week with that.

    She did have £102, but lost £100 and her bank have said they'll try to get it back .... she'll have to not visit her husband's grave this week as the bus fare is £3.50. And go to bed early as she can't afford to top up her electricity card now ....

    She had planned to leave the house and see other people this week, at the weekly lunch club on Thursdays, but that costs £5 and so ... well, never mind, she can see people on the television this week, she doesn't need real conversation with actual people.

    She sighs .... and looks out of the window .... thinking to herself "people are basically good, I'm sure I'll get my £100 soon ... the nice young man at the bank smiled and said I might ...."

    it's a company. i used to work for them.
    Ah, I got carried away....
    • CrowCrow
    • By CrowCrow 15th Oct 16, 3:20 PM
    • 996 Posts
    • 529 Thanks
    CrowCrow
    The money is not yours. You know the money is not yours. Refusing authorisation is acting as the owner of the property you know is not yours.

    That is theft by finding. That's a criminal offence.


    If you come across property that you know not to be yours, you must take reasonable steps to return that property to it's true owner.
    • theone999
    • By theone999 15th Oct 16, 3:28 PM
    • 95 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    theone999
    The money is not yours. You know the money is not yours. Refusing authorisation is acting as the owner of the property you know is not yours.

    That is theft by finding. That's a criminal offence.


    If you come across property that you know not to be yours, you must take reasonable steps to return that property to it's true owner.
    Originally posted by CrowCrow
    get real. no proof has been given and no contact made before this went to the banks. and how unreasonable is my action to refuse authorisation to a bank, not the end claimant given my obligations elsewhere?

    I intend to obey the letter of the law and no more. you sound like one of those well off 48% with utter disdain for the less moneyed classes who has to make harder choices like who to pay off, rather than which cheese at the deli counter. no wonder Brexit happened.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 15th Oct 16, 3:34 PM
    • 8,380 Posts
    • 8,211 Thanks
    sourcrates
    The money is not yours. You know the money is not yours. Refusing authorisation is acting as the owner of the property you know is not yours.

    That is theft by finding. That's a criminal offence.


    If you come across property that you know not to be yours, you must take reasonable steps to return that property to it's true owner.
    Originally posted by CrowCrow
    Don't talk utter twadle.

    The OP has other PRIORITY debts to pay first.

    It's an unsecured debt which will be dealt with in accordance with FCA/debt collection guidelines.
    It's no different to repaying any other debt in affordable instalments.

    For free debt advice please call National Debtline on
    0808 808 4000
    Monday to Friday
    9am to 9pm
    Saturday 9.30am to 1pm
    • theone999
    • By theone999 15th Oct 16, 3:37 PM
    • 95 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    theone999
    Don't talk utter twadle.

    The OP has other PRIORITY debts to pay first.

    It's an unsecured debt which will be dealt with in accordance with FCA/debt collection guidelines.
    It's no different to repaying any other debt in affordable instalments.
    Originally posted by sourcrates
    thanks for that. i've now learnt that there is a guideline for Financial Conduct Authority / debt collection.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 15th Oct 16, 3:52 PM
    • 8,380 Posts
    • 8,211 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Agreed, OP knows this money is not his and is refusing to give it back in a timely fashion. It is not an unsecured debt, a debt is incurred through borrowing and this money was never loaned to the OP, it was placed in their account in error.

    Do what you want OP, but it looks like karma is already catching up with you with your already incurred debts
    Originally posted by Bogalot
    There has been no proof the money was overpaid !!!!!!!!!!!

    For free debt advice please call National Debtline on
    0808 808 4000
    Monday to Friday
    9am to 9pm
    Saturday 9.30am to 1pm
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