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  • FIRST POST
    • pewe
    • By pewe 15th Oct 16, 12:09 PM
    • 37Posts
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    pewe
    Advice sought - Problem with broadband speed changes -
    • #1
    • 15th Oct 16, 12:09 PM
    Advice sought - Problem with broadband speed changes - 15th Oct 16 at 12:09 PM
    We live in the country some way from our exchange/cabinet so have no way of getting fibre.

    For the last 3 years we have been getting a speed of between 1.1MB and 1.4MB (fluctuates).

    Last week we noticed a significant drop to .6MB (or less) and also, for a couple of days, suffered connection drop outs.

    We are with TalkTalk who checked the line on their system and said we had a 'loop fault' on the line, so they sent out an Openreach engineer.

    The Openreach engineer found no faults on physically checking the line and said that the sync was set to .7MB.

    Having seen the speedtest results I had over the last 12 months with figures of 1.1 to 1.3 he called to TalkTalk as he thought they must have capped the speed.

    The TalkTalk engineer denied it was capped and said .7 was the maximum I could expect over the length of line - even though I had been experiencing more.
    BUT he suggested I could get more going to Fibre (over the same line???? - he obviously doesn't understand how the service works).

    So I went back to TalkTalk who have now decided to send me a new router to try - ?????

    In the meantime I find my next door neighbour has moved from BT to TalkTalk and he has experienced a drop in speed from 1MB with BT to .6MB with TalkTalk - and guess what - he was connected the same day I noticed a line speed drop.

    It seems to me rather coincidental that on the same day as my neighbour was connected to TalkTalk that the speed on both lines dropped and it appears there is nothing we can do about it (apart from trying a different provider) - or does anyone know different?
Page 1
    • mwarby
    • By mwarby 15th Oct 16, 12:28 PM
    • 617 Posts
    • 228 Thanks
    mwarby
    • #2
    • 15th Oct 16, 12:28 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Oct 16, 12:28 PM
    fibre, is fibre to the cabinet, this means your line length is much shorter allowing for higher speed. Normally for fibre the cabinet is 1km or less.

    re the speed drop when your neighbor was connected. Not unusual if he didn't have broadband before, as there will be a small amount of crosstalk
    • pewe
    • By pewe 15th Oct 16, 1:06 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    pewe
    • #3
    • 15th Oct 16, 1:06 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Oct 16, 1:06 PM
    Re - the fibre - that was my point.
    The TalkTalk Engineer knew the length of the line from the cabinet to the house is over 3KM - so should have known that fibre was a daft suggestion - just demonstrating his lack of 'understanding'.


    Does 'crosstalk' only occur if the service on both lines is with the same provider? - because if 'crosstalk' occurs by simply having two broadband services on the same line then this should not be the issue.
    Prior to joining TalkTalk last week next door had broadband with at least 1MB for over 2 years - but it was with a different provider - BT.
    • mwarby
    • By mwarby 15th Oct 16, 1:53 PM
    • 617 Posts
    • 228 Thanks
    mwarby
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 1:53 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 1:53 PM
    3km from the cabinet is going to be a struggle for VDSL based services, hopefully one day ADSL2/2+ services will be available from the cabinet, but I think this is still in trial stage

    Crosstalk doesn't depend on the provider at least not as severe as your issue (technically you have near end and far end, with different providers kit the far end changes a little, but not such that 1 customer would make a difference)
    • mwarby
    • By mwarby 15th Oct 16, 2:00 PM
    • 617 Posts
    • 228 Thanks
    mwarby
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:00 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:00 PM
    Just found this graph http://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/FTTC-speed-distance-graph.png at 3km it shows just under 10M, so maybe it would get you a speed increase. I'm not sure I can recommend it though, as it'll likely be on the edge of working\not working
    • pewe
    • By pewe 15th Oct 16, 2:47 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    pewe
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:47 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 2:47 PM
    3km from the cabinet is going to be a struggle for VDSL based services, hopefully one day ADSL2/2+ services will be available from the cabinet, but I think this is still in trial stage

    Crosstalk doesn't depend on the provider at least not as severe as your issue (technically you have near end and far end, with different providers kit the far end changes a little, but not such that 1 customer would make a difference)
    Originally posted by mwarby
    I appreciate your view regarding speed at that distance because that is what we are constantly told BUT as I repeatedly mention :


    On this line I have been getting 1.1MB to 1.3MB consistently for over 2 years with no dropped connections or errors when downloading - so for it to now be a constant .6MB since last week means something has changed.
    TalkTalk constantly use the length of line as being the problem without taking the past performance into account and consistently ignore my point and don't offer any other possible reason for the change.



    I'm also not sure what you mean about ADSL2 - according to my router stats it is using ADSL2


    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 15th Oct 16, 4:08 PM
    • 5,819 Posts
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    teddysmum
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:08 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:08 PM
    Although 0.7 is half of 1.4 the actual drop in speed is only between 0.4 and 0.7.

    When I moved from O2 broadband, with a BT line, to both with Sky, mine went up from an average 5.4 to an average 6.3. (However, t's been poor for the last two weeks, once dropping the line completely and with some readings as low as 0.7 and short drop outs. Perhaps, they knew I was about to transfer to PlusNet.)
    Last edited by teddysmum; 15-10-2016 at 4:12 PM.
    • Somerset
    • By Somerset 15th Oct 16, 4:46 PM
    • 3,507 Posts
    • 2,709 Thanks
    Somerset
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:46 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 4:46 PM
    .

    We are with TalkTalk who checked the line on their system and said we had a 'loop fault' on the line, so they sent out an Openreach engineer.

    In the meantime I find my next door neighbour has moved from BT to TalkTalk and he has experienced a drop in speed from 1MB with BT to .6MB with TalkTalk - and guess what - he was connected the same day I noticed a line speed drop.
    Originally posted by pewe

    I'd put money on it being a TT issue, and the neighbour switch not being a coincidence. TT have known capacity problems ie too many people using their platform.


    My story, I was with the Post Office for yonks who used BT as their provider. They switched to TT and it went downhill fast. I spent a year in the dark, sending speed tests, more speed tests to the PO, new router, new filters etc. There were no problems with the line, no faults, it would be escalated etc. So I googled, and realised TT simply had a capacity problem, it was well known. Too many users. I switched to BT and went from 0.6 to 3.6. I'm rural as well.
    • pewe
    • By pewe 15th Oct 16, 5:33 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    pewe
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:33 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:33 PM
    Although 0.7 is half of 1.4 the actual drop in speed is only between 0.4 and 0.7.
    Originally posted by teddysmum
    That is still a significant impact - 30%-50% - when the original speed was as low as it was.

    I'd put money on it being a TT issue, and the neighbour switch not being a coincidence. TT have known capacity problems ie too many people using their platform.
    Originally posted by Somerset
    Getting them to admit it is the problem.
    Why is it that for some reason in todays society it is OK, and acceptable, for businesses to lie to customers and get away with it????

    Do you know how far you are from your cabinet?
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 15th Oct 16, 5:54 PM
    • 5,819 Posts
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    teddysmum
    That is still a significant impact - 30%-50% - when the original speed was as low as it was.
    Originally posted by pewe


    That was the point I was making. ie that a fairly common change in speed, when switching provider, becomes magnified in the OP's case because of low area speed.
    • iniltous
    • By iniltous 15th Oct 16, 5:59 PM
    • 1,101 Posts
    • 360 Thanks
    iniltous
    A retired BT technician was telling me about the trials and tribulations of investigating broadband problems with particular service providers, reduced speeds being an issue, often he would visit an end user who would complain they used to get 'X' speed but now only get 'Y', he would go to the exchange and disconnect the line from the ISP 's broadband equipment , and sync the ISP's equipment using his tester , he would expect the line to sync at a much better rate, as the line length is now effectively zero, but mostly it would sync at the 'Y' rate...he would call the SP , to get them to reset the line profile, and they would say that the line was stable at 'Y' and that was the rate their customer was going to get, so no DLM moving the line rate up, even if the line quality improved , it was fixed at this lower (stable) rate, this lower rate of course would benefit the ISP as far as managing bandwidth
    Do these providers still advertise 'they will provide the fastest speed your line can handle' ? or do you get a 'stable' rate
    0.5 Mb pinched from a line syncing at 15Mb isn't noticeable, but pinched from a line that could sync at 1.5Mb is
    Is it a co-incidence that your issue happened at the same time your neighbour joins your ISP ?
    Last edited by iniltous; 15-10-2016 at 6:12 PM.
    • pewe
    • By pewe 16th Oct 16, 3:49 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    pewe
    A retired BT technician was telling me about the trials and tribulations of investigating broadband problems with particular service providers, reduced speeds being an issue, often he would visit an end user who would complain they used to get 'X' speed but now only get 'Y', he would go to the exchange and disconnect the line from the ISP 's broadband equipment , and sync the ISP's equipment using his tester , he would expect the line to sync at a much better rate, as the line length is now effectively zero, but mostly it would sync at the 'Y' rate...he would call the SP , to get them to reset the line profile, and they would say that the line was stable at 'Y' and that was the rate their customer was going to get, so no DLM moving the line rate up, even if the line quality improved , it was fixed at this lower (stable) rate, this lower rate of course would benefit the ISP as far as managing bandwidth
    Do these providers still advertise 'they will provide the fastest speed your line can handle' ? or do you get a 'stable' rate
    0.5 Mb pinched from a line syncing at 15Mb isn't noticeable, but pinched from a line that could sync at 1.5Mb is
    Is it a co-incidence that your issue happened at the same time your neighbour joins your ISP ?
    Originally posted by iniltous
    That is a classic example of how suppliers get around offering the best customer service for their own benefit.

    I wonder if there may be a way to get an engineer to 'anonymously' check our lines at the cabinet
    • Rubidium
    • By Rubidium 16th Oct 16, 4:35 PM
    • 478 Posts
    • 272 Thanks
    Rubidium
    That is a classic example of how suppliers get around offering the best customer service for their own benefit.

    I wonder if there may be a way to get an engineer to 'anonymously' check our lines at the cabinet
    Originally posted by pewe
    Why don't you simply leave this bunch of jokers and switch to a proper ISP?
    • pewe
    • By pewe 16th Oct 16, 4:55 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    pewe
    Why don't you simply leave this bunch of jokers and switch to a proper ISP?
    Originally posted by Rubidium
    It is a valid question.
    One answer is to do with a service that they offer which no one else does. Their Talk2Go app.

    This app saves a member of the family over £50 per month in call costs.
    Currently there is only one other provider (BT) who offers a similar app - but the way the BT app is registered it cannot be used by our family member who lives abroad.

    Of course there is the other consideration - most ISP's have their issues/problems, and often one can simply jump out of the frying pan into the fire.
    Our next door neighbour, for example, left BT because he was unhappy with their service, and he has ended up with a service from TalkTalk which will be no better - but at a much lower speed.
    • anactuary
    • By anactuary 16th Oct 16, 6:22 PM
    • 598 Posts
    • 148 Thanks
    anactuary
    Our next door neighbour, for example, left BT because he was unhappy with their service, and he has ended up with a service from TalkTalk which will be no better - but at a much lower speed.
    Originally posted by pewe
    TalkTalk were even lower than BT in the MSE 2015 survey (couldn't see the 2016 survey on a quick search) so not a big surprise.
    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/broadband/2015/06/plusnet-tops-the-customer-service-tables-again-while-aol-and-ee-take-the-wooden-spoon
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