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  • FIRST POST
    • ScarletMarble
    • By ScarletMarble 15th Oct 16, 8:35 AM
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    ScarletMarble
    Feeling ill, dragging myself to work as don't want disciplinary
    • #1
    • 15th Oct 16, 8:35 AM
    Feeling ill, dragging myself to work as don't want disciplinary 15th Oct 16 at 8:35 AM
    I'm full of cold, struggle to breathe and feeling awful. Yet if I phone in sick, I get a disciplinary as it would be my 3rd period of sickness in a year. My employer, like many allow their employees to have 2 periods of sickness in a rolling year - any more it's disciplinary with warnings.. My 2 sicknesses were in late Nov (tonsillitis, chest infection) and June (S&D). The latter, there was a bug going around where I lived and about 10 of us had it.

    It doesn't help working in an environment where customers are not covering their mouths and noses when they cough and sneeze. Noticed this has increased over the years too. Some colleagues think colds should be excluded. I'm not one of them.

    I have personal issues at home without the added stress of a disciplinary. I am a very well person, but with my asthma, colds and other winter illnesses makes them worse. I had the flu injection at the end of last month. I cannot afford to be off ill

    When I have struggled to work, customers say things like 'what are you doing here?', 'You should be in bed' etc. I briefly tell them about the sickness policy.

    Obviously if I had the S&D again, I have to ring in sick as its not fair and germs are easily spread. But unsure if they count that again.

    What would you do?



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    • FredG
    • By FredG 17th Oct 16, 12:58 PM
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    FredG
    There is no perfect solution, those that want to swing it will do. Your colleague would clearly swing it alot more if they could get away with it but the Bradford method prevents this.
    Originally posted by Takeaway_Addict


    Nope, the Bradford method is giving him wonderfully timed additional holiday to play whichever video game is on his to-do list.


    No amount of statistics will ever be of more use than common sense and knowing your staff. All Bradford appears to do is force sick people into the office to spread germs while taking its place as a stick to beat those that really don't need beating, all in the name of group policy. It's archaic and poorly implemented almost everywhere I've worked.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 17th Oct 16, 1:46 PM
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    Undervalued
    Nope, the Bradford method is giving him wonderfully timed additional holiday to play whichever video game is on his to-do list.


    No amount of statistics will ever be of more use than common sense and knowing your staff. All Bradford appears to do is force sick people into the office to spread germs while taking its place as a stick to beat those that really don't need beating, all in the name of group policy. It's archaic and poorly implemented almost everywhere I've worked.
    Originally posted by FredG

    That maybe so but, as somebody said earlier, without some kind of recognised system an employer has little protection from a spurious claim if they were to dismiss an employee who is clearly milking their sick pay "entitlement".

    Sadly that happens too and the end result is that decent employees suffer as a result of some of their colleagues taking the proverbial!
    • SandC
    • By SandC 17th Oct 16, 3:52 PM
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    SandC
    I've always found wherever I have worked that different people have a different perception about what constitutes 'too ill to be in work'. A decent employer will use the Bradford method sensibly, it's a tool to call an employee in for a chat when their absence reaches a certain point. That shouldn't mean automatic disciplinary action but a chance to a) check if employee is well enough to be back and b) let employee know that absence is recorded and monitored - hopefully making them think about whether they really were too sick to be off.

    Some people do think that if they wake up feeling a bit off colour that they're better off not being in work rather than getting up and getting on with it and seeing if they improve once they're up and about. And as other posters have said, there are definitely still many people who see sickness absences as a supply of duvet days to be taken over and above annual leave....
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 17th Oct 16, 4:03 PM
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    TBagpuss
    The Equality Act efines diasbailty by saying

    "A person is disabled if they have ‘a physical or mental impairment’
    which has ‘a substantial and long-term adverse effect’ on their
    ‘ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities’. "

    So a person with asthma may be diasabled as a result of is, but 'asthma' isn't automatically a disability.

    OP, I'm glad you are feelinga bit better.

    Do uou know how your employer treats additional sickness? What does the disciplinary process say? It may simply be an informal warning of discussion, or closer monitoring of your absences for a set period, or something else relatively minor.

    One thing you might want to consider for future use would be to hold back a few days holiday entitlement. If you start to get ill and feelthat you are likely to struggle, see whether you can book a day as annual leave. It does mean using some of your annual leave rather than sick leave but it is one way to avoid a disiplinary, and as suach, you may feel that it is worth while in terms of reducing your stress levels.

    Of course it does depend a bit on how easy it is to book time off on short notice, and how concerned you are at risking the disciplinary.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 17th Oct 16, 4:36 PM
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    FBaby
    Totally agree with SandC's post.

    People like you just really annoy me. There is nothing noble about being in work with a cold when you're spreading your germs around to others - you may not think that you're doing any harm but you are.
    I much much prefer to have to deal with a colleague with a cold, taking precaution to minimise the chance of catching it then having to pick up their workload when I am myself already struggling with mine.

    Funnily, last time I suffered from a cold, which I have no idea where I got it from because no-one I knew had one, not one of my colleagues at work or family at home caught it. Amazing what good hygiene does!
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 17th Oct 16, 5:04 PM
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    Guest101
    I was ill, came in to work and was promptly sent home - colleagues and manager didn't want to catch it.


    I would've phoned in sick, but actually needed to do something that morning - barely had a chance to explain before I was out the door.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 17th Oct 16, 5:06 PM
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    Guest101
    Totally agree with SandC's post.



    I much much prefer to have to deal with a colleague with a cold, taking precaution to minimise the chance of catching it then having to pick up their workload when I am myself already struggling with mine.

    Funnily, last time I suffered from a cold, which I have no idea where I got it from because no-one I knew had one, not one of my colleagues at work or family at home caught it. Amazing what good hygiene does!
    Originally posted by FBaby


    Yes it is, but that has nothing to do with catching a cold....
    • SandC
    • By SandC 17th Oct 16, 7:28 PM
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    SandC
    It does if you wash your hands (or use sanitizing gel) frequently, cover your nose and mouth while coughing or sneezing and don't wander around with a tissue in your hand touching door handles or equipment.
    • ScarletMarble
    • By ScarletMarble 17th Oct 16, 8:13 PM
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    ScarletMarble


    Funnily, last time I suffered from a cold, which I have no idea where I got it from because no-one I knew had one, not one of my colleagues at work or family at home caught it. Amazing what good hygiene does!
    Originally posted by FBaby
    It could be anyone such as someone sitting next to you on a bus, standing next to you in a queue. Just needs a cough or sneeze over you or item you touch which is theirs - such as a bank card or using a Chip.n Pin machine.

    I get my colds from customers and I have little contact with them.
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    • ScarletMarble
    • By ScarletMarble 17th Oct 16, 8:20 PM
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    ScarletMarble
    Also I don't like my employer counting an operation as a period of sickness. Especially if the operation will stop future time off sick if the employee had time off sick for the condition in the past.

    Employers should encourage their employees to reduce their chances of being sick
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    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 17th Oct 16, 8:28 PM
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    theoretica
    Yes it is, but that has nothing to do with catching a cold....
    Originally posted by Guest101
    http://www.everydayhealth.com/cold-and-flu/secrets-to-good-hygiene.aspx
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • suki1964
    • By suki1964 17th Oct 16, 8:35 PM
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    suki1964
    It could be anyone such as someone sitting next to you on a bus, standing next to you in a queue. Just needs a cough or sneeze over you or item you touch which is theirs - such as a bank card or using a Chip.n Pin machine.

    I get my colds from customers and I have little contact with them.
    Originally posted by ScarletMarble
    Probably one of those foreigners you were in contact with on holiday
    if you lend someone £20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it
    • suki1964
    • By suki1964 17th Oct 16, 8:48 PM
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    suki1964
    I remember going into work in spite of having a rather high temp.., because I was two days into a job and didn't think I'd be believed about taking time off. Turned out I had flu, and yes I gave it to another person who took a full week off. My filing was unbelievably bad as well that week lol.

    But I do have asthma.., I also have two special needs children which can lead to periods of not getting a lot of sleep so I totally dread colds as typically, you get more of these illnesses when a bit run down. They can take me weeks to get over. I don't work, but if I did, I know I would go into work, I've done it in the past. You can't afford to take time off work unless something is imminently life threatening, even if you know it could exacerbate a condition like asthma if you don't 'rest'. It might be selfish, but even sick, bills have to be paid. And taking the amount of time off required to be non infectious with an illness when you don't know in advance if its going to be serious or not (some colds are just a little snuffle) is just impractical - however much it protects your colleagues.

    Glad the OP is feeling better though.

    Mind you, I was the one who was only allowed 24 hours in bed when Swine flu was in the household. Both kids had it, then I got it (it was definitely swine flu). I just had to keep going.., even though I could barely breath at the time. I'll never forget it. I think you just have to get on with it at times. There was no choice and you do get over these things with time normally.
    Originally posted by deannatrois

    Seriously flu?

    And you got into work ???

    Flu, you cannot move.

    Someone could wave a million pound winning lotto ticket in front of your nose and you wouldn't have the strength to reach for it

    Flu with asthma ? And you got into work??

    Seriously ?
    if you lend someone £20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 17th Oct 16, 8:55 PM
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    Guest101
    Not disputing that, but unfortunately some people work when ill.. So you can catch it from the shop assistant who stacked the shelves, or the check out worker who gave you change, or the person who opened the door just before you, or the person 4 rows back on the bus.

    There is no foolproof protection, you can minimise the risks in certain areas which you control, but in many cases hygiene or not, it's a sneeze or a cough away...
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 17th Oct 16, 8:56 PM
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    Guest101
    It does if you wash your hands (or use sanitizing gel) frequently, cover your nose and mouth while coughing or sneezing and don't wander around with a tissue in your hand touching door handles or equipment.
    Originally posted by SandC
    Yes but Fbaby wasn't talking about minimising infecting others ( where isolation is the best method) but rather avoiding catching it
    • Nicki
    • By Nicki 17th Oct 16, 9:00 PM
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    Nicki
    Seriously flu?

    And you got into work ???

    Flu, you cannot move.

    Someone could wave a million pound winning lotto ticket in front of your nose and you wouldn't have the strength to reach for it

    Flu with asthma ? And you got into work??

    Seriously ?
    Originally posted by suki1964
    Agreed. The NHS website says that flu makes you incapable of working. If you're well enough to work then it's a bad cold not flu.

    The one and only time I had flu, as a child, I felt like I'd been hit by a truck and couldn't make it from bed to bathroom much less up and out to school as it was then.

    Mind you it's not unheard of for people with colds who want a day off work to claim they have flu!
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 17th Oct 16, 9:02 PM
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    theoretica
    There is no foolproof protection, you can minimise the risks in certain areas which you control, but in many cases hygiene or not, it's a sneeze or a cough away...
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Indeed - but you can minimise the risks is much better odds than 'nothing to do with'. Never touch your own face or anything you will put in your mouth unless you have just washed or sanitised your hands to avoid the nasties on your change/doorhandles/handrails/anywhere getting you.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • SandC
    • By SandC 17th Oct 16, 9:12 PM
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    SandC
    Yes but Fbaby wasn't talking about minimising infecting others ( where isolation is the best method) but rather avoiding catching it
    Originally posted by Guest101
    It's both though, especially the washing of the hands. True though, I have my own office, avoiding people is one of the best ways, and all that hugging and cheek kissing nonsense, lol. 😂
    • ScarletMarble
    • By ScarletMarble 17th Oct 16, 10:17 PM
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    ScarletMarble
    Probably one of those foreigners you were in contact with on holiday
    Originally posted by suki1964
    My symptoms started 4 days after I flew out.
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    • suki1964
    • By suki1964 17th Oct 16, 10:21 PM
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    suki1964
    My symptoms started 4 days after I flew out.
    Originally posted by ScarletMarble
    Told ya
    if you lend someone £20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it
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