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    • rainbowqry
    • By rainbowqry 14th Oct 16, 9:17 PM
    • 16Posts
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    rainbowqry
    Issues on building regulation before exchange contract. Should we proceed???
    • #1
    • 14th Oct 16, 9:17 PM
    Issues on building regulation before exchange contract. Should we proceed??? 14th Oct 16 at 9:17 PM
    We are just waiting for some final documents before exchange, and the vendor's solicitor now say that they don't have the building regulation on some work that was done by the previous owner, at least 15 years ago, among other things. So the issues we now face are:

    1) no building control on removal of chimney breast. Building survey report comments is that no support can be seen and it might be in the floor void.
    2) no building control on removal of load bearing wall (between kitchen and hall). There is a beam in place though
    3) no building control completion certificate for the kitchen and lounge extention, which were carried out around 1992
    4) no planning permmision or building control for the garage conversion and downstairs shower room. The survey report did point out that the garage conversion doesn't have cavity wall, and the shower room is of single brick. So both of quite poor standards

    We are quite upset that they only told us they don't have those documents last minute and left us with no time to get someone in to further check, say the support for the chemney breast. (our landlord is selling the house so have to move out in 2 weeks time).

    We asked to drop the price and the vendor orignally said no. So we decided to walk away. But now EA managed to persuade the vendor to drop £3k (offer price £342k). And they are happy to buy indemnity insurance to satisfy the lender.

    So we are now trying to make a decesion whether to proceed. I know all of the work were done before the current owner bought the house and they were only given what they have now. I would really appreciate soome advise:

    1) are these issue series enough to make us concerned?
    2) when it comes to sale, will there be problem? If so, is there anything we can do after we buy the house? And is £3k enough?

    Thanks so much. EA want a decision today but we said we need to think about it. So please please help if you can.

    Should we or should we not?
Page 2
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 17th Oct 16, 4:17 PM
    • 1,791 Posts
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    Smodlet
    Maybe you just assumed cost was not the issue because to you, it is not.
    What is this life, if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?

    Every stew starts with the first onion.

    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 17th Oct 16, 5:25 PM
    • 22,249 Posts
    • 63,082 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    Maybe you just assumed cost was not the issue because to you, it is not.
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    There were no assumptions. Your post was very clear and in response to a question of risk.

    Worst case scenario with chimney breast, if unsupported? It could come crashing down at any time and take your roof with it, plus what/whoever is underneath... worth the risk? Not to us; we walked away from a beautiful house for precisely this reason. It did have other issues, too but that was the biggie.
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    I don't do psychic. You made no mention of money. My response to that was absolutely in context to your statement. The only assumptions in our conversation were both of your rude assertions of my financial status. As a building professional, I speak from the point of experience and knowledge, not the ability to throw money at problems.

    I stand by my comments which are quite general. An unsupported chimney breast is not a huge deal in the grand scheme of house purchase. All houses hide secrets, some of which are discovered (or simply questioned) at survey. An unsupported chimney breast often looks the same as a supported one. The issue is not that the chimney was actually unsupported, more the missing paperwork to prove it was. It is mising because
    a) the work was sufficient and pre-dates 1986 (present) building regs
    b) the work was sufficient but performed without applying for building regs post 1986
    c) carried out incorrectly and without applying (regardless of building regs in force at time)

    I would expect the vendor to pay for the investigation as it is not something that could be known before survey. Surveys are there to highlight potential issues, some of which don't even exist. The likelihood is that it has been supported in some manner that does not make it an immediate risk.

    All surveys carry with them advice to make further investigations - at additional cost. No survey advises on the condition of gas or electrical items. And deciding to buy a different house also carries additional cost - more surveys!

    All to be balanced in a balanced argument. If you don't make one, don't expect people to assume anything other than what you say when you walked away for "precisely (the) reason" of risk.
    Last edited by Doozergirl; 17-10-2016 at 5:36 PM.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • anselld
    • By anselld 17th Oct 16, 5:59 PM
    • 4,869 Posts
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    anselld
    The issue is not that the chimney was actually unsupported, more the missing paperwork to prove it was.
    Originally posted by Doozergirl
    The OP doesn't actually know that though. Worst case, it might actually be unsupported. Still not a showstopper I would agree, but I would be impressed if you could rectify that, get BC sign-off and make good decor in a day!
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 17th Oct 16, 6:49 PM
    • 1,791 Posts
    • 2,982 Thanks
    Smodlet
    DG, how would I know you are a "building professional"? Your user name hardly suggests it, not that there's any reason why a girl should not be a builder but, as far as I know, not many are.

    Of course, no problem is a biggie if it is one you can fix yourself; most of us are not "building professionals" so have to pay someone who is and factor in the costs of so doing when making decisions.

    Your first instinct may be to fix problems which, were I in a position to buy a "perfect period property", might also be mine. As it is, it made infinitely more sense to walk away. We did ask for a reduction; the answer was, "no" so why on earth would we not walk away from a property which had issues which were obvious, as well as the missing chimney breast which may or may not have been supported? Given the standard of the other work which had been done, I doubt it was.

    Moving on, now.
    What is this life, if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?

    Every stew starts with the first onion.

    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 17th Oct 16, 6:59 PM
    • 22,249 Posts
    • 63,082 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    The OP doesn't actually know that though. Worst case, it might actually be unsupported. Still not a showstopper I would agree, but I would be impressed if you could rectify that, get BC sign-off and make good decor in a day!
    Originally posted by anselld
    I've stated the three different options it could be, one of which is most likely but you haven't quoted that.

    Checking takes 10 minutes and shouldn't involve any visible damage to anything as long as there isn't an additional hard floor over the boards in the room where the chimney now starts.

    If there is a problem, one cannot decorate straight onto wet plaster but the important work can certainly be done in a day. Thank you for agreeing that it should not be a showstopper.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 17th Oct 16, 7:01 PM
    • 22,249 Posts
    • 63,082 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    DG, how would I know you are a "building professional"? Your user name hardly suggests it, not that there's any reason why a girl should not be a builder but, as far as I know, not many are.

    Of course, no problem is a biggie if it is one you can fix yourself; most of us are not "building professionals" so have to pay someone who is and factor in the costs of so doing when making decisions.

    Your first instinct may be to fix problems which, were I in a position to buy a "perfect period property", might also be mine. As it is, it made infinitely more sense to walk away. We did ask for a reduction; the answer was, "no" so why on earth would we not walk away from a property which had issues which were obvious, as well as the missing chimney breast which may or may not have been supported? Given the standard of the other work which had been done, I doubt it was.

    Moving on, now.
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    Good idea for you to move on. This thread isn't about you and you are out of your depth.

    Still wondering how you know my bank balance but can't check my posting history.

    As for the quality of work, I refer you back to my previous post about the chimney breast where the same three options apply to all work carried out. The initial problem for most of that list is missing paperwork, either for good reason or not.

    A garage conversion can have a single skin and meet building regs, a shower room built onto that, ditto. Many outbuilding conversions are such. Standing for 25-30 years does not suggest particularly poor or dangerous quality.

    Not enough information provided to know, but certainly not enough information to *assume* poor quality. The house you turned down would have been built without building control sign off, as was probably the one you bought! That wasn't a problem or risk to you. That's fair enough. We're here to learn.
    Last edited by Doozergirl; 17-10-2016 at 7:12 PM.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 17th Oct 16, 9:16 PM
    • 1,791 Posts
    • 2,982 Thanks
    Smodlet
    How can you possibly have any idea what we bought? Now who's assuming? And why would I check your posting history? Do you really think you are that interesting? Sorry, not to me.
    What is this life, if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?

    Every stew starts with the first onion.

    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • Mocha61
    • By Mocha61 17th Oct 16, 9:34 PM
    • 105 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    Mocha61
    The lack of support for the chimney breast can be very dangerous, a builder didnt put supports in my daughters house and the council took builder to court for endangering life. It was expensive to put right with rsj, gallow brackets were not acceptable by the council. the builder who sorted this out couldn't believe how dangerous it had been left.
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