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  • FIRST POST
    • rainbowqry
    • By rainbowqry 14th Oct 16, 9:17 PM
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    rainbowqry
    Issues on building regulation before exchange contract. Should we proceed???
    • #1
    • 14th Oct 16, 9:17 PM
    Issues on building regulation before exchange contract. Should we proceed??? 14th Oct 16 at 9:17 PM
    We are just waiting for some final documents before exchange, and the vendor's solicitor now say that they don't have the building regulation on some work that was done by the previous owner, at least 15 years ago, among other things. So the issues we now face are:

    1) no building control on removal of chimney breast. Building survey report comments is that no support can be seen and it might be in the floor void.
    2) no building control on removal of load bearing wall (between kitchen and hall). There is a beam in place though
    3) no building control completion certificate for the kitchen and lounge extention, which were carried out around 1992
    4) no planning permmision or building control for the garage conversion and downstairs shower room. The survey report did point out that the garage conversion doesn't have cavity wall, and the shower room is of single brick. So both of quite poor standards

    We are quite upset that they only told us they don't have those documents last minute and left us with no time to get someone in to further check, say the support for the chemney breast. (our landlord is selling the house so have to move out in 2 weeks time).

    We asked to drop the price and the vendor orignally said no. So we decided to walk away. But now EA managed to persuade the vendor to drop £3k (offer price £342k). And they are happy to buy indemnity insurance to satisfy the lender.

    So we are now trying to make a decesion whether to proceed. I know all of the work were done before the current owner bought the house and they were only given what they have now. I would really appreciate soome advise:

    1) are these issue series enough to make us concerned?
    2) when it comes to sale, will there be problem? If so, is there anything we can do after we buy the house? And is £3k enough?

    Thanks so much. EA want a decision today but we said we need to think about it. So please please help if you can.

    Should we or should we not?
Page 1
    • Riggyman
    • By Riggyman 15th Oct 16, 3:47 AM
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    Riggyman
    • #2
    • 15th Oct 16, 3:47 AM
    • #2
    • 15th Oct 16, 3:47 AM
    Will your mortgage provider lend on this property with these issues? If not, problem solved. If yes, wouldn't worry about it. and in all these cases, what does your solicitor say?
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 15th Oct 16, 6:42 AM
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    Davesnave
    • #3
    • 15th Oct 16, 6:42 AM
    • #3
    • 15th Oct 16, 6:42 AM
    What did your surveyor say about the structural condition of the house?

    £3k will not sort the garage conversion and shower room, which are probably very sub-standard.
    'Only the mediocre are always at their best.' Jean Giraudoux
    • anselld
    • By anselld 15th Oct 16, 8:07 AM
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    anselld
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 8:07 AM
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 8:07 AM
    our landlord is selling the house so have to move out in 2 weeks time
    Originally posted by rainbowqry
    That is not necessarily a requirement to move out. Your tenancy would simply continue with the new owner. Or have you given notice yourselves?

    Either way it is not a good reason to buy a property with bodged building works.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 15th Oct 16, 9:28 AM
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    eddddy
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 9:28 AM
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 9:28 AM
    I guess you can look at it this way... Typically, imperfect/problem properties sell for less than perfect ones.

    So you should expect to buy for a bit less, and later sell for a bit less, than similar 'perfect' properties. And the buying/selling process tends to be a bit more painful (as you are finding).

    Some people will prefer paying more for 'perfect' properties, others will prefer getting more property for their money with an 'imperfect' property.

    What does you valuer/surveyor say the property is worth with it's imperfections?
    • rainbowqry
    • By rainbowqry 15th Oct 16, 10:27 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    rainbowqry
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 10:27 AM
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 10:27 AM
    The lender is happy with the indemnity insurance. And surveyor thinks the rest of the house is in good structural conditions, the garage conversion and shower room obviously needs some work done.
    • rainbowqry
    • By rainbowqry 15th Oct 16, 10:36 AM
    • 16 Posts
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    rainbowqry
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 10:36 AM
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 10:36 AM
    Yes you are absolutely right it is painful. I think it is slightly cheaper, but not by a lot. We would probably have avoided this house if we know the issues, it's just so annoying. But have already gone this far, it's hard to just walk away.

    Just called the surveyor, he thinks the chimney breast is a minor issue and easily fixed if there is no support. Garage conversion and shower room is more serious so need some money spent. As for completion certificate he said if inspection has taken place we might be able to get the certificate from council for a small fee.

    So doesn't sound too bad?

    I guess you can look at it this way... Typically, imperfect/problem properties sell for less than perfect ones.

    So you should expect to buy for a bit less, and later sell for a bit less, than similar 'perfect' properties. And the buying/selling process tends to be a bit more painful (as you are finding).

    Some people will prefer paying more for 'perfect' properties, others will prefer getting more property for their money with an 'imperfect' property.

    What does you valuer/surveyor say the property is worth with it's imperfections?
    Originally posted by eddddy
    • anselld
    • By anselld 15th Oct 16, 10:37 AM
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    anselld
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 10:37 AM
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 10:37 AM
    The lender is happy with the indemnity insurance. And surveyor thinks the rest of the house is in good structural conditions, the garage conversion and shower room obviously needs some work done.
    Originally posted by rainbowqry
    ... and the chimney breast if the support turns out to be non-existent.



    Just called the surveyor, he thinks the chimney breast is a minor issue and easily fixed if there is no support.
    Originally posted by rainbowqry

    Easy fix? It will need either to be removed up to the roof or it will need a RSJ or suitable gallows brackets inserted below. Not cheap and significant disruption to decor in at least one room.
    Last edited by anselld; 15-10-2016 at 10:41 AM.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 15th Oct 16, 10:41 AM
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    davidmcn
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 10:41 AM
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 10:41 AM
    Garage conversion and shower room is more serious so need some money spent. As for completion certificate he said if inspection has taken place we might be able to get the certificate from council for a small fee.
    Originally posted by rainbowqry
    Lack of building regulations or other consents for stuff done 20+ years ago is effectively irrelevant - the council is out of time to enforce any statutory breaches, any defects due to shoddy work ought to have manifested themselves by now, and only the fussiest buyers/lenders will expect you to produce the paperwork. You know which bits are actually of a poor standard and can account for that in the price.
    • rainbowqry
    • By rainbowqry 15th Oct 16, 10:49 AM
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    rainbowqry
    He said it is a shallow chimney breast, and also was removed a long time ago so if there is issue it should have already appeared. Does that make any difference?

    ... and the chimney breast if the support turns out to be non-existent.






    Easy fix? It will need either to be removed up to the roof or it will need a RSJ or suitable gallows brackets inserted below. Not cheap and significant disruption to decor in at least one room.
    Originally posted by anselld
    • anselld
    • By anselld 15th Oct 16, 11:14 AM
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    anselld
    He said it is a shallow chimney breast, and also was removed a long time ago so if there is issue it should have already appeared. Does that make any difference?
    Originally posted by rainbowqry
    It means that there is less chance of it falling down, but it does not make it "good structural condition". If it is not fixed it will remain an unsupported chimney breast (hopefully!) which may represent a problem for some buyers and/or some lenders.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 15th Oct 16, 11:43 AM
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    Smodlet
    Worst case scenario with chimney breast, if unsupported? It could come crashing down at any time and take your roof with it, plus what/whoever is underneath... worth the risk? Not to us; we walked away from a beautiful house for precisely this reason. It did have other issues, too but that was the biggie.
    What is this life, if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?

    Every stew starts with the first onion.

    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • Hoploz
    • By Hoploz 16th Oct 16, 9:06 PM
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    Hoploz
    Could I just throw in another suggestion ... Some work you believe to be from 1992. However is it possible that some of the other work was done earlier? Modern building regs as we know them today didn't come in until the 1980's so work done before this would never have been given certificates.
    But basically you have to be happy the building is structurally sound, or that you have been given sufficient discount to put towards the work to rectify if necessary (eg chimney breast support/removal)
    Improvements to the garage conversion are less structural and more about comfort eg might be cold or damp but not unsafe, so your choice.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 16th Oct 16, 10:03 PM
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    Doozergirl
    Worst case scenario with chimney breast, if unsupported? It could come crashing down at any time and take your roof with it, plus what/whoever is underneath... worth the risk? Not to us; we walked away from a beautiful house for precisely this reason. It did have other issues, too but that was the biggie.
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    Each to their own. A building professional won't look at it like a major problem at all. Anything that takes less than a day to fix is not a biggie. It might be someone's idea of a 'biggie' but it isn't a big problem at all when addressed. And no one has even checked for support, because it will be hidden if it is there.

    If anyone thinks they are buying the perfect period house, they are almost always mistaken. Every period house comes with dirty little secrets. It's better to know about them first!
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 16th Oct 16, 11:56 PM
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    steampowered
    Have a read of the indemnity insurance policy. Does it cover these defects? What sort of excess is there?
    • Hoploz
    • By Hoploz 17th Oct 16, 9:25 AM
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    Hoploz
    An indemnity policy is to protect you if the council find out illegal work has been done and decide to enforce building regs. This is somewhere on the scale between highly unlikely and impossible, but often mortgage companies will not proceed without it in place.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 17th Oct 16, 9:55 AM
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    Davesnave
    An indemnity policy is to protect you if the council find out illegal work has been done and decide to enforce building regs. This is somewhere on the scale between highly unlikely and impossible, but often mortgage companies will not proceed without it in place.
    Originally posted by Hoploz
    ....And it won't cover you for reinstatement if part of your house falls down!
    'Only the mediocre are always at their best.' Jean Giraudoux
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 17th Oct 16, 11:13 AM
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    Smodlet
    Each to their own. A building professional won't look at it like a major problem at all. Anything that takes less than a day to fix is not a biggie. It might be someone's idea of a 'biggie' but it isn't a big problem at all when addressed. And no one has even checked for support, because it will be hidden if it is there.

    If anyone thinks they are buying the perfect period house, they are almost always mistaken. Every period house comes with dirty little secrets. It's better to know about them first!
    Originally posted by Doozergirl

    Anything is a biggie if you just don't have the money to fix it. The structural engineer's report alone was going to cost £300. That may be small change to you, DG, but to some of us, it is anything but.

    This was hardly a period house, either; 1960s, probably. It was not ignorance on our part, it was necessity. Why pay £x for a house with nothing holding up the chimney when you can pay the same for one with its chimney breast intact? Oh, to be rich.
    What is this life, if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?

    Every stew starts with the first onion.

    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • Ozzuk
    • By Ozzuk 17th Oct 16, 11:55 AM
    • 835 Posts
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    Ozzuk
    I'd be concerned about resale. The chimney doesn't sound like a big issue (but could become one!). The lack of BC on the extension given the age isn't the end of the world but did he comment on how good the construction was? I'd be concerned if it was sub-standard.

    As for the garage, was it marketed and valued stating this was a usable space? If its obvious that its just a converted garage - i.e. the original garage door is still there but perhaps internally covered up which is quite common then its not a big problem. however...if its marketed as a habitable room then that would be a big problem and you wouldn't be able to sell it on as such.

    For me that would be the big issue and depending on how the room is viewed I'd probably want it re-valued and ask for a bigger reduction (if I still really wanted the house).
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 17th Oct 16, 2:47 PM
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    Doozergirl
    Anything is a biggie if you just don't have the money to fix it. The structural engineer's report alone was going to cost £300. That may be small change to you, DG, but to some of us, it is anything but.

    This was hardly a period house, either; 1960s, probably. It was not ignorance on our part, it was necessity. Why pay £x for a house with nothing holding up the chimney when you can pay the same for one with its chimney breast intact? Oh, to be rich.
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    I said preference, not ignorance.

    If you can't afford it and the vendor is not willing to pay for the report or reduce the price to account for it, then the cost is the issue. You didn't say cost was the big issue, you said the chimney breast problem was. If you seek to influence another poster then fill in the details of why.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
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