Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • elisebutt65
    • By elisebutt65 14th Oct 16, 7:07 PM
    • 3,757Posts
    • 7,237Thanks
    elisebutt65
    Can my employer backdate my terms and conditions
    • #1
    • 14th Oct 16, 7:07 PM
    Can my employer backdate my terms and conditions 14th Oct 16 at 7:07 PM
    I'm currently on a fractional lecturing contract of 60%. Due to hours being drastically reduced I agreed to drop to a 55% contract.
    However, since 1st September I have been present, as required from 8.30 until 4.30, for 3 days a week, even if not teaching all classes, as I haven't been timetabled in.
    I just received an email from my line. Anger, asking me to email her a request to drop to 55% effective 1st September which will incur an overpayment of about £300.

    I don't think this is fair. They did this to me last year and I had to repay £800. I've forwarded the email chain to my union rep but the longer this goes on, the greater the overpayment. I've been availalble to work for 3 full days a week, which is over 55% of the working week anyway. It's not my fault they've reduced my teaching, in the case of 2 days from 6 hours to 4.5.
    Noli nothis permittere te terere
    Bad Mothers Club Member No.665
    Student MoneySaving Club member 026! Teacher now and still Moneysaving

Page 1
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 14th Oct 16, 10:14 PM
    • 2,735 Posts
    • 4,278 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #2
    • 14th Oct 16, 10:14 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Oct 16, 10:14 PM
    Due to hours being drastically reduced I agreed to drop to a 55% contract.
    .
    Originally posted by elisebutt65
    Did you agree to this before 1st September? If so, then you have a contract in place, and one that you agreed to, so the number of hours that you have been present after 1st September is irrelevant. In which case you have been overpaid. A verbal agreement is as good as a written one, it simply cannot be proven as easily.
    • Marktheshark
    • By Marktheshark 14th Oct 16, 10:19 PM
    • 5,335 Posts
    • 6,679 Thanks
    Marktheshark
    • #3
    • 14th Oct 16, 10:19 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Oct 16, 10:19 PM
    A verbal agreement is not worth the paper it is written on.
    Brexit will become whatever they invent it to be.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 15th Oct 16, 12:11 AM
    • 2,735 Posts
    • 4,278 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 12:11 AM
    • #4
    • 15th Oct 16, 12:11 AM
    A verbal agreement is not worth the paper it is written on.
    Originally posted by Marktheshark
    Well it is (a) if you are honest, and (b) if you expect to be in a job next month. It may not be easy to prove if one party is going to lie about it, as I said, but that doesn't mean that lying about it doesn't have consequences. If the OP agreed to reduce their hours and knew that they were then being paid the same as previously, they knew they were being overpaid. You can't just decide to be available to work if you already know that you are not being required to work.
    • elisebutt65
    • By elisebutt65 15th Oct 16, 6:36 AM
    • 3,757 Posts
    • 7,237 Thanks
    elisebutt65
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 6:36 AM
    • #5
    • 15th Oct 16, 6:36 AM
    Did you agree to this before 1st September? If so, then you have a contract in place, and one that you agreed to, so the number of hours that you have been present after 1st September is irrelevant. In which case you have been overpaid. A verbal agreement is as good as a written one, it simply cannot be proven as easily.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    No. My contract was 60% as of 1st September. It's only this past week that the discussion was had about contract reduction. It was signed and returned to HR after negotiations in June.
    Noli nothis permittere te terere
    Bad Mothers Club Member No.665
    Student MoneySaving Club member 026! Teacher now and still Moneysaving

    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 15th Oct 16, 8:20 AM
    • 26,292 Posts
    • 15,806 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 8:20 AM
    • #6
    • 15th Oct 16, 8:20 AM
    No. My contract was 60% as of 1st September. It's only this past week that the discussion was had about contract reduction. It was signed and returned to HR after negotiations in June.
    Originally posted by elisebutt65
    What was?


    when did you agree the reduction?
    That's the day you put in any acknowledgement.

    eg as per discussions with XX on on DD,MM,YYYY I agreed to a reduction in my hours as from...

    you could ask for the full legal notice for the change but probably not that smart best to wave that notice and accept from the day after the discussion.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 15th Oct 16, 8:59 AM
    • 2,735 Posts
    • 4,278 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 8:59 AM
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 8:59 AM
    I'm going to assume that the contract returned in June was the 60% contract. If so, then the wage deduction can only date from the time that you agreed to reduce your hours. That date is all that matters. As getmore4less suggests, you could insist on notice being given - what risk that entails, you would have to determine. They could just as easily decide that you are redundant. Or, if you have less than two years service, just dismiss you.
    • elisebutt65
    • By elisebutt65 15th Oct 16, 11:56 AM
    • 3,757 Posts
    • 7,237 Thanks
    elisebutt65
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 11:56 AM
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 11:56 AM
    Thanks. Yes, sorry, it was the contract I signed in June. I've been there 9 years and am the only teacher qualified to teach the subject, as required by the examining body (C & G).
    Is there a specific law that says about back dating contracts?

    I'm also a bit wary as my line manager has specifically asked me to initiate the change, by emailing her the request to drop hours. Surely she should be requesting me to sign a new contract, to meet business needs etc?

    I'll be so glad when I can find a new job, but the new contracts, as agreed by our union, make us give 3 months notice now, so I'm more or less screwed, unless I stay in teaching.
    Noli nothis permittere te terere
    Bad Mothers Club Member No.665
    Student MoneySaving Club member 026! Teacher now and still Moneysaving

    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 15th Oct 16, 12:25 PM
    • 2,735 Posts
    • 4,278 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 12:25 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 12:25 PM
    Thanks. Yes, sorry, it was the contract I signed in June. I've been there 9 years and am the only teacher qualified to teach the subject, as required by the examining body (C & G).
    Is there a specific law that says about back dating contracts?

    I'm also a bit wary as my line manager has specifically asked me to initiate the change, by emailing her the request to drop hours. Surely she should be requesting me to sign a new contract, to meet business needs etc?

    I'll be so glad when I can find a new job, but the new contracts, as agreed by our union, make us give 3 months notice now, so I'm more or less screwed, unless I stay in teaching.
    Originally posted by elisebutt65
    Since you are in a union, you should be using them. But no there is no law specific to this. It is just standard contact law. Contracts can't be retroactive unless that is what you agree. If you don't agree, they can't do it on one side. They can only inform you that they are terminating your contract and offering you another one with the reduction.

    If this is what the employer wants, I can see no reason why you should ask for it. It's up to them.
    • elisebutt65
    • By elisebutt65 17th Oct 16, 8:40 AM
    • 3,757 Posts
    • 7,237 Thanks
    elisebutt65
    It gets better. Manager did the same thing to A colleague but over the phone. 'You MUST request the change and it must be backdated.' Then the threat: if you don't, then your job is at risk of redundancy We're both going to call their bluff. At least I have 9 years of service in.
    Husband is willing to support me until I get a new job, as I'm drawing my line in the sand now.
    Noli nothis permittere te terere
    Bad Mothers Club Member No.665
    Student MoneySaving Club member 026! Teacher now and still Moneysaving

    • YouAsked
    • By YouAsked 17th Oct 16, 9:49 AM
    • 95 Posts
    • 105 Thanks
    YouAsked
    It sounds to me as if the line manager has messed up here and was supposed to sort something out before 1st September and hasn't so is now trying to cover it their back. Reading between the lines, I imagine they have devolved respsonsibility for their budget and have realised too late that they haven't made the cuts they needed to.

    Let your union handle it. Don't to anything proactively and just make sure that any possible overpayment going forwards is kept to one side to pay back.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,671Posts Today

5,760Users online

Martin's Twitter