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    • dcdubber87
    • By dcdubber87 14th Oct 16, 12:37 PM
    • 20Posts
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    dcdubber87
    MET services PCN help
    • #1
    • 14th Oct 16, 12:37 PM
    MET services PCN help 14th Oct 16 at 12:37 PM
    Good afternoon,

    Thanks for taking the time to read my post, just after a little bit of help and guidance.

    On the 8th september myself and partner parked at bicester village train station and bought a ticket and put it in the dashboard as usual. upon returning that evening we had a PCN from MET services for no displayed ticket with the reason ;

    no valid ticket/voucher/permit - in breach of railway bylaw 14.

    I was a bit shocked and opened the car to find the ticket in the footwell of the car. can only think it blew off when shutting the door as it was a windy day. After reading various things on the internet about this company i did nothing, coupled with being away with working travelling the last 3 weeks. Had a letter come through the post today from MET services titled 'NOTICE TO OWNER' addressed to my wife as it was her car stating the parking charge of £100 is payable and a photo of the rear of the car on the letter.

    I still have the notice given and the actual parking ticket i brought. Where do i stand in this situation? has it been to long to appeal it? as the new letter says if you wish to appeal this notice, please do not pay at this time. which makes sense.

    any help would be great.
    thanks rob
Page 2
    • dcdubber87
    • By dcdubber87 22nd Feb 17, 8:58 PM
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    dcdubber87
    Thanks for your help, its all very much appreciated, so with that kind of info, if 100% correct do you just leave it as it is? or get in contact with them stating a statement like you have mentioned?

    How can organisations like this go about enforcing tickets with out of date legislations being quoted? I for one wouldnt have a clue if it was up to date or not without your help.
    Last edited by dcdubber87; 22-02-2017 at 9:02 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Feb 17, 9:11 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Windscreen PCN is a 'parking charge notice' but says misleadingly:'' in breach of byelaw 14''

    http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=11v66iv&s=9#.WK3x5fmLTIU

    Reminder says nothing at all except that it now goes on about 'debt recovery' in January (errrrmm...hang on MET, you said this was for breach of byelaws!):

    http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2cglj4y&s=9#.WK3yXPmLTIU

    DRPlus say 'This Penalty Notice has been issued under Section 219 of the Transport Act 2000' and it says under that Act the vehicle can be clamped until the outstanding charge is paid...

    http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=25f7xox&s=9#.WK3y7_mLTIU

    ...tell that to NCP in the case of Mayhook v NCP about clamping and removing a car from railway land to try to force payment of 'PCNs'. That case cost NCP a SIX figure sum, as reported at the time, due to 90% of his huge costs (including an injunction and the cost of being deprived of his car) being granted.

    http://www.davidmarq.com/bama/Mayhook-V-NCP%20Judgement%20transcript.pdf

    at #56: ''the holding {of the vehicle} is an unlawful interference''

    In this MET case, in a couple of weeks time on 8th March, a 'byelaws breach' penalty can't be laid before Magistrates court (not that MET can do that and neither can DRPlus).

    The action I would take is to report both MET and DRPlus to the BPA and DVLA for a serious breach of the BPA CoP, by misleading the recipient of the legal status of the 'PCN' and the DRPlus letter by suggesting a level of authority that they do not have for the charge:

    - MET say it is issued under byelaw 14 but it isn't, this is a 'parking charge notice' not a byelaws penalty

    - DRPlus then say it is a 'penalty' yet we know it is not

    - DRPlus claim it was issued under a statute that was repealed in 2005!

    You must email a complaint about this and state that it shows a serious breach of the BPA CoP by suggesting a level of authority that they do not have and misleading the recipient as to the status of this 'parking charge' which is clearly being pursued merely under contract law, in fact, it is not and never was a 'penalty' and did not fall under 'breach of byelaws' nor the Transport Act.

    aos@britishparking.co.uk

    and

    david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk


    HTH
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 22-02-2017 at 9:21 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • dcdubber87
    • By dcdubber87 22nd Feb 17, 9:31 PM
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    dcdubber87
    I can see why people get so confused with all this, they seem to change their mind in every correspondence. I will get onto emailing them tomorrow. As I'm emailing the 2 should I include the 3 images of the different notices? I'm guessing so but thought I would just check first.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Feb 17, 10:04 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Yes - and the link to prove the relevant section of the Transport Act 2000 was repealed in 2005.

    And look up the current BPA CoP and find the section about not misleading drivers by pretending to have statutory authority when you do not. Quote it at them.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • dcdubber87
    • By dcdubber87 22nd Feb 17, 10:10 PM
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    dcdubber87
    Brilliant, I'll make sure to have a good look through tomorrow afternoon once I've finished work and get it sent to them both end of play tomorrow.
    • dcdubber87
    • By dcdubber87 2nd Mar 17, 10:29 AM
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    dcdubber87
    Hi again, another little update, i've had a reply from David Dunford, pretty much saying until the BPA respond they cant do much, so as soon as they respond to send corrospondence to him to look into.

    Ive also had a reply from MET Parking Services which isnt much help. Saying as its with the debt company now they won't answer my questions. Are they allowed to do that when im asking for proof that no ticket was present?

    Heres the response from them.
    hxxp://i66.tinypic.com/htvgpd.jpg

    Also another letter has been sent from Debt Recovery Plus with a 'Notice of Intended Court Action' and that payment must be made now by the 13/03/2017

    Again here is the letter
    hxxp://i65.tinypic.com/htv7n8.jpg
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Mar 17, 12:00 PM
    • 48,395 Posts
    • 61,840 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You could email DRPlus and quote their reference (not the PCN number alone) and ask them for proof that no ticket was present.

    info@drpl.co.uk

    HTH - don't give away any info. Just ask for evidence as registered keeper. Whatever they come back with - IGNORE THEM!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • dcdubber87
    • By dcdubber87 2nd Mar 17, 12:09 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    dcdubber87
    I did send them a letter along with the one to MET Parking Services, im hoping that they havent replied to that one yet and that the new letter from them was sent before or just as they received my letter asking for proof. But i suppose emailing them wont hurt either. I have made sure in all letters to them that the driver has never been identified,
    • dcdubber87
    • By dcdubber87 16th Mar 17, 10:08 AM
    • 20 Posts
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    dcdubber87
    Well not much to update, the latest deadline for payment has passed, i have not had a reply from the BPA or a reply from the debt company with any proof of no ticket displayed.

    Should i have had a reply from the BPA now? its probably nearly a month ago now.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Mar 17, 8:15 PM
    • 48,395 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    The BPA always reply within days when you email them as advised on this forum:

    aos@britishparking.co.uk

    I hope you didn't post a letter...never write a letter to any of this industry, they lose them.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • dcdubber87
    • By dcdubber87 16th Mar 17, 8:26 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    dcdubber87
    No i emailed the address above and the dvla. The dvla replied within a few days. I'll re send it to the parking email again. And see if i have any luck.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Mar 17, 8:37 PM
    • 48,395 Posts
    • 61,840 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I've never seen them not reply.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • dcdubber87
    • By dcdubber87 16th Mar 17, 8:41 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    dcdubber87
    I have just double checked to make sure it was sent and to the correct email address. And it's all good so not quite sure. I've resent it so hoping for more luck this time.
    • dcdubber87
    • By dcdubber87 20th Mar 17, 4:52 PM
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    dcdubber87
    Well, just had a response from the BPA, and to be honest i was kind of hoping for a bit more. here is the reply i have just recieved

    Thank you for your email.

    We are currently working with Government to provide much needed clarity on the management of railway land. We believe that by using the Byelaws of the land, they have appropriate authority and we do not consider this to be misrepresentation.

    The latest advice we have received from Government is that railway land should be managed using the relevant Byelaws.

    Please provide copies of the notices you have received to enable us to contact the operator and ask they review the possible inconsistency between the documents they have issued.

    We will investigate any complaints about alleged non-compliance with the Code. However, we are not set up to deal with disputes from the general public about parking or control. Nor are we a regulatory body. Therefore, the Code does not provide a way for a driver to challenge how a landowner or operator has applied parking control and enforcement on private land. As a membership association we do not have the authority to cancel parking charges or recall charges from debt collection.

    Yours Sincerely,
    Esme Berry
    AOS Investigations Team

    Copies of the letters were included in the email, but i have just resent them to ensire they do and have got them.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Mar 17, 9:52 PM
    • 48,395 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    I know you have replied, but this would be fun:



    We are currently working with Government

    Dear Esme,

    You protest too much on behalf of your employer Trade Body, with your spin: ''We are currently working with Government''.

    That's a strange choice of wording - is the BPA skirting the issue, again?

    You mean the BPA is LOBBYING Government, not working WITH them. You are muddying the waters to create a veil of legitimacy to cover your members' notoriously unfair business practices. The BPA are not a regulator nor any relevant authority. As you well know, the BPA is merely a one-sided Trade Body with consumer interests far too low in your thinking. Your hands are tied because your members dictate your actions; thus, the BPA appears incapable of independent and fair action.

    All too often, the BPA allows your status to be confused to appear to be 'effectively regulation' when it suits the parking operators, just as the BPA did in order to extract the POFA Schedule 4 as 'quid pro quo' for the 2012 clamping ban, as if regulation in favour of rogue operators was needed. This then enabled clampers and the other motley crew members of the BPA to carry on with their aggressive conduct, replacing car clamping with credit clamping.

    No doubt the BPA is proud of the way the UK public is currently being beleaguered by your members: fined for parking in their own home car parks, or at Hospitals when at our most vulnerable, stressed or ill, dragged to court to defend spurious four figure sums or hit with secret CCJs to old addresses, as well as fake 'byelaws fines' like this one. All for the profit of private firms and nothing whatsoever to do with 'parking management'. No, really, please. There has been no credible indication whatsoever, of any aim for fair parking management.

    The BPA's interaction with Government is nothing to be proud of, so please don't insult me with a glib template reply, painting the position as if the BPA is some sort of authority with a say on Parliamentary matters. The BPA are in fact infamous for significantly misleading Government about the number of court claims, pre-POFA, as well as more recent moves, such as appointing a parking firms' debt collector, Wright Hassall, to imitate POPLA and then when ISPA protested, suddenly ISPA had no say over those cases and now ISPA has disappeared. You certainly get things done but not to the BPA's credit, in the eyes of the public.

    So, here (below) it seems to me that you are admitting that private 'parking charge notices' have no place on railway land:

    ''The latest advice we have received from Government is that railway land should be managed using the relevant Byelaws.''

    Kindly confirm your member will be cancelling the private invoice, since there is no lawful route to sidestep a byelaws penalty by paying a bribe to an unrelated, non-landowner/non-TOC third party. Act on advice from Government, stop putting out soundbites that you are 'working with' them, get the BPA's own house in order and you might finally earn an iota of respect from motorists, who have certainly not been seen to be at the heart of your thinking in recent years.

    yours sincerely,
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 21-03-2017 at 12:17 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • dcdubber87
    • By dcdubber87 18th Apr 17, 2:14 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    dcdubber87
    Thanks for the brilliant repsonse to the reply i recieved, i didnt get round to sending that reply until i got back from working away with work. a few days later after the intial response from them she said they would look into it and low and behold i got a typical response back from them.

    Thank you for your patience whilst we looked into this matter.

    We are still waiting for Government to provide the much needed clarification on what sort of notice (parking or penalty) can be issued to motorists who breach the Terms & Conditions at railway station car parks. Until this clarification is provided, we do not plan to insist that operators make changes to their notices.

    We have been assured by Government officials that it is being worked on and they will be able to provide clarity to this matter soon. Once clarification is provided we can ensure all notices utilising byelaws and issued by our members are consistent.

    Our apologies we cannot address this matter straightaway.

    The BPA has worked hard to improve standards in the private parking sector in the knowledge there is no regulation of it. The AOS Code of Practice since its inception in 2007 has delivered significant improvements to the way operators manage their and their clients’ land and how they provide their services to motorists.


    I got back from working away and sent the repsonse that was posted before and have yet to have a reply. suprise suprise. I have emailed all replies and emails over to David at the DVLA and am again waiting on a reply. In the meantime from the debt recovery side after sending them an email and letter requesting photographic evidence ive so far had these replies.

    This one states that they dont have to supply photo evidence, its entirely their choice.

    hxxp://tinypic.com/m/jkby20/3

    Its funny now they addressing it as Parking Charge Notice now when the first couple of letters they were calling it a Penalty Notice, where do i stand on them changing their minds what they are calling it.

    They then send a letter with several images of the car but doesnt include a picture of parking ticket ended up which was on the drivers seat. They have only got pictures of the windscreen and side windows. not sure that it matters but the time stamps on the images 2 of them were at 11.22am and the next 2 were 16 minutes later at 11.38. how long does it take to process a ticket and why so far apart.

    The next day this letter was recieved but isnt much help really either.

    hxxp://tinypic.com/m/jkby3n/3

    So as it stands they are still trying to retrieve £150 but have used 2 different descriptions of what they are calling this charge, MET parking called it a Parking Charge Notice, Debt Recovery called it a Penatly Notice but several letters later they are now calling it a Parking Charge Notice as well. The BPA dont seem to want to know or help and i dont think David at the DLVA can do much from what his response was from my initial contatc with him. Can you see them taking this to court? and where do we stand at this point?

    On a side note we should be moving homes in the next month or 2. do we need to inform both MET parking and Debt recovery on the change of address?

    Thanks for reading again

    Rob













    Last edited by dcdubber87; 18-04-2017 at 2:26 PM.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Apr 17, 3:31 PM
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    Umkomaas
    where do i stand on them changing their minds what they are calling it.
    Debt collectors can call it whatever they want, because you are ignoring them ......... aren't you?

    Can you see them taking this to court?
    Well here's MET's record over the past couple of years - and they've issued ~150,000 tickets in that time!

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/MET_Parking_Services.html

    do we need to inform both MET parking and Debt recovery on the change of address?
    Inform both. If posting get a free certificate of posting from your Post Office counter. I'd also email, giving details of the PCN reference number, VRM etc, cc it to yourself at a different email address, as you will then have complete proof that the notice has been served.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • dcdubber87
    • By dcdubber87 18th Apr 17, 3:49 PM
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    dcdubber87
    Thanks for providing the link. Thats some statistic there. Is this because they know that they are in the wrong with every single parking site they manage on a legal basis?

    Certainly cant imagine the 70 plus thousand tickets served each year have all been paid without fighting it.

    I am not ignoring the letters completely, as requested photo evidence and have said that a valid ticket is in posession and was purchased on the day of the charge.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Apr 17, 3:56 PM
    • 13,638 Posts
    • 21,392 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Is this because they know that they are in the wrong with every single parking site they manage on a legal basis?
    Possibly, or they don't fancy a judge telling them so, or they make enough money thank you from those scared witless by their demands so leave the rest to debt collectors, or they don't have the grey matter to be able to string a sentence together to formulate a claim, or ....., or ....., or ....... Who knows what goes on in the mind of a parasite.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • dcdubber87
    • By dcdubber87 18th Apr 17, 4:04 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    dcdubber87
    just looking into that link you posted with the court facts, thats a really handy site which ive not yet come across. having a good old read on the MET parking and Debt recovery its certainly highlights a few dirty tactics they play, so i shall keep my eye out for more letters. Ive not done so yet but is it worth contacting the railway company about the issue, in this case Chiltern Railways?
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