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  • FIRST POST
    • MentalMinnie
    • By MentalMinnie 13th Oct 16, 9:07 PM
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    MentalMinnie
    SSP and termination of Employment query...
    • #1
    • 13th Oct 16, 9:07 PM
    SSP and termination of Employment query... 13th Oct 16 at 9:07 PM
    Can someone clarify where the money for SSP comes from? Is it still from the employers pockets or does the government pay it?

    Sorry if its a really daft question!

    I'll explain why I ask once I receive confirmation.
Page 1
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Oct 16, 10:53 PM
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    • #2
    • 13th Oct 16, 10:53 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 16, 10:53 PM
    The employer pays it.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 14th Oct 16, 8:16 AM
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    TELLIT01
    • #3
    • 14th Oct 16, 8:16 AM
    • #3
    • 14th Oct 16, 8:16 AM
    In the past SSP was paid out by the employer but then recovered from government. That changed some years ago so that large companies had to carry the cost, but small employers were reimbursed. I think the cost now falls entirely on the employer whatever the size.
    • MentalMinnie
    • By MentalMinnie 14th Oct 16, 5:58 PM
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    • #4
    • 14th Oct 16, 5:58 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Oct 16, 5:58 PM
    Ah ok.

    I ask as a resigned from my job on 30th Aug. I started on 13th June. The day I resigned was my last day of my doctors note so I was due to return the following day.

    I had a substantial amount of time off during my short time there so they deducted all the time off from my Aug salary and I still owed a further 6.5 days to be taken from my Sept salary.

    Obviously when I resigned it was with immediate effect so they said I'd have to pay them the owing money.

    Heard nothing more from them. Emailed twice for my P45 which was ignored. They finally responded this week by sending paper copies of my payslips (they were emailed to me initially) and my P45.

    This is where it all gets a bit odd. My paper payslips are COMPLETELY different to the originals that were emailed to me. On my P45 they have my leaving date as 9th Sept. they've then created a payslip for September, for these days on SSP, then deducted what I've earned to repay themselves?!

    Is this normal?
    I thought if SSP was paid by the government that they were on the fiddle but I guess not?
    • chrisbur
    • By chrisbur 14th Oct 16, 7:14 PM
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    chrisbur
    • #5
    • 14th Oct 16, 7:14 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Oct 16, 7:14 PM
    SSP is fully paid by your employer, they receive nothing from any government organisation to cover their cost for this. That does not mean that your employer has any control over the payment of SSP. They must follow the rules laid down for SSP and the payment must be made to all who qualify. The payment cannot be taken back just because you leave.
    Perhaps to better understand what has happened here you could give the full details from your payslips both the email and later different printed versions as well as the full P 45 details.
    Last edited by chrisbur; 15-10-2016 at 12:10 AM.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 14th Oct 16, 10:10 PM
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    • #6
    • 14th Oct 16, 10:10 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Oct 16, 10:10 PM
    SSP is, however, treated as wages. If an employee owes the employer money and the deduction is authorised by statute, contained with the contract, or a written agreement exists, then it is lawful to deduct from the final wage, even if that means that no payment is made to the employee. If the OP resigned on the last day in August, then the August salary payment would have been the last wages payment.

    OP - it is entirely unclear what has happened here. What do you mean that they deducted all the time off from your August wage? Were you paid full pay in previous months for time that you were sick? And were you actually entitled to SSP for those periods, in that you met the qualifying criteria for SSP and were absent for more than three days?

    And why is it "obvious" that you resigned with immediate effect? That would be a breach of contract on your part because you are required to give notice of your resignations.

    Does the final payment you received actually represent holiday pay, or some holiday pay? If you have had a lot of time off, then you probably didn't take any holiday.
    • MentalMinnie
    • By MentalMinnie 15th Oct 16, 3:20 PM
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    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 3:20 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Oct 16, 3:20 PM
    SSP is, however, treated as wages. If an employee owes the employer money and the deduction is authorised by statute, contained with the contract, or a written agreement exists, then it is lawful to deduct from the final wage, even if that means that no payment is made to the employee. If the OP resigned on the last day in August, then the August salary payment would have been the last wages payment.

    OP - it is entirely unclear what has happened here. What do you mean that they deducted all the time off from your August wage? Were you paid full pay in previous months for time that you were sick? And were you actually entitled to SSP for those periods, in that you met the qualifying criteria for SSP and were absent for more than three days?


    And why is it "obvious" that you resigned with immediate effect? That would be a breach of contract on your part because you are required to give notice of your resignations.

    Does the final payment you received actually represent holiday pay, or some holiday pay? If you have had a lot of time off, then you probably didn't take any holiday.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    I only had 2 weeks off 'sick' with a sick note from the doctors. The rest was decided as unpaid leave but it took them ages to get their fingers out to deduct it.

    I didn't sign a contract of employment. The resignation with immediate effect was due to the circumstances surrounding my time off, both unpaid leave and the sick leave.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 15th Oct 16, 5:02 PM
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    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:02 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Oct 16, 5:02 PM
    The whole time you were on the staff (including when you were off sick or on unpaid leave) you were accruing annual leave (very roughly 1 day for every two weeks). Unless you have taken this holiday you are entitled to be paid for it now that you have resigned.

    As you did not give any notice (technically breach of contract) they may well try to "forget" to pay you for the holiday. Although that would be unlawful, the problem is if you pursue them for what you are owed they might counter claim for any losses caused by your lack of notice.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 15th Oct 16, 11:16 PM
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    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 11:16 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Oct 16, 11:16 PM
    I only had 2 weeks off 'sick' with a sick note from the doctors. The rest was decided as unpaid leave but it took them ages to get their fingers out to deduct it. Payroll is often not set up to deal with such issues instantaneously. You knew at the time that you were being overpaid. You could have kept that money and offered to pay it back. So you are not really in a position to argue that deducting it the following month is unfair - you actually only worked there for a matter of weeks - a lot of which you were not there for anyway.

    I didn't sign a contract of employment. The resignation with immediate effect was due to the circumstances surrounding my time off, both unpaid leave and the sick leave. It doesn't matter whether you signed or not. You turned up to work, at least occasionally, so you were bound by a contract and your notice period was at least a week.
    Originally posted by MentalMinnie
    So you started work in the middle of June. You didn't work much in July. Or, possibly, August, And you are surprised that you had to pay back money because they overpaid you in July, something which you actually knew about? When were you expecting to pay back the money, given you then resigned without giving notice? But you were thinking they were on the fiddle?
    • chrisbur
    • By chrisbur 16th Oct 16, 9:54 AM
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    chrisbur
    So you started work in the middle of June. You didn't work much in July. Or, possibly, August, And you are surprised that you had to pay back money because they overpaid you in July, something which you actually knew about? When were you expecting to pay back the money, given you then resigned without giving notice? But you were thinking they were on the fiddle?
    Originally posted by sangie595
    As yet the OP has not provided the figures which I asked for in post 5 so it is impossible to tell what has actually happened here. It may be that as you suggest SSP payment has been used to correct an earlier over-payment or it may be that an SSP payment to which the OP was fully entitled has been cancelled out. Without seeing the full figures it is impossible to tell. Certainly there has been some sort adjustment as two sets of payslips have been issued and the OP is not able to understand what has happened.

    OP if you are still insure put the figures up that I asked for and they can be checked to see exactly what has happened.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 16th Oct 16, 11:08 AM
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    sangie595
    As yet the OP has not provided the figures which I asked for in post 5 so it is impossible to tell what has actually happened here. It may be that as you suggest SSP payment has been used to correct an earlier over-payment or it may be that an SSP payment to which the OP was fully entitled has been cancelled out. Without seeing the full figures it is impossible to tell. Certainly there has been some sort adjustment as two sets of payslips have been issued and the OP is not able to understand what has happened.

    OP if you are still insure put the figures up that I asked for and they can be checked to see exactly what has happened.
    Originally posted by chrisbur
    Oh I do agree with you. And the OP doesn't appear to want to answer any questions. I don't know how much they were overpaid. It is just clear that, not only were they overpaid, the OP knew they had been overpaid. And seems to be shocked that having been overpaid they should be expected to pay it back from the money they are being paid. It was the comment that they thought the employer was on the fiddl, when in fact they seemed to think that being overpaid and knowing it and not repaying it immediately was ok, that I found a dichotomy. They could have kept the amounts they were overpaid to one side, to either repay or live off when the overpayment was deducted. But instead they are complaining about the employer reclaiming the overpayment.
    • MentalMinnie
    • By MentalMinnie 16th Oct 16, 12:33 PM
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    MentalMinnie
    So you started work in the middle of June. You didn't work much in July. Or, possibly, August, And you are surprised that you had to pay back money because they overpaid you in July, something which you actually knew about? When were you expecting to pay back the money, given you then resigned without giving notice? But you were thinking they were on the fiddle?
    Originally posted by sangie595
    I'm not complaining about them taking the money back, I don't recall saying I had issue with it? My only grumble is that they were so bloody slow to action anything.

    I just wondered why they'd changed my leaving date and changed my printed payslips.
    Last edited by MentalMinnie; 16-10-2016 at 12:40 PM.
    • MentalMinnie
    • By MentalMinnie 16th Oct 16, 12:35 PM
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    MentalMinnie
    Oh I do agree with you. And the OP doesn't appear to want to answer any questions. I don't know how much they were overpaid. It is just clear that, not only were they overpaid, the OP knew they had been overpaid. And seems to be shocked that having been overpaid they should be expected to pay it back from the money they are being paid. It was the comment that they thought the employer was on the fiddl, when in fact they seemed to think that being overpaid and knowing it and not repaying it immediately was ok, that I found a dichotomy. They could have kept the amounts they were overpaid to one side, to either repay or live off when the overpayment was deducted. But instead they are complaining about the employer reclaiming the overpayment.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Again, where have I 'complained ' about repaying the time off I had? Think you need to take your trolling else where mate.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 16th Oct 16, 1:42 PM
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    sangie595
    So why, exactly, were you being so coy about asking who paid SSP? And wouldn't explain until later? And why did you think they were fiddling when it was YOU who owed money? Come on now - you were hoping that by leaving immediately without notice that you wouldn't have to repay it because you'd just turn around and say you couldn't pay more than 50p a week? And still have your SSP in your pocket as well.

    You only worked there for a few weeks - the clawback of overpayment was NOT slow. These are payroll processes that do not happen overnight. And, as I have pointed out, you KNEW you had been overpaid and could have either repaid that money immediately (why were you so slow at repaying it?) or kept it to one side for the point at which they did recover it.

    And you were on here to complain. You were hoping you would be able to report the employer - that is why you asked the question - and still get your SSP. Please do not try to extract the urine and act all innocent.
    • MentalMinnie
    • By MentalMinnie 16th Oct 16, 1:53 PM
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    MentalMinnie
    So why, exactly, were you being so coy about asking who paid SSP? And wouldn't explain until later? And why did you think they were fiddling when it was YOU who owed money? Come on now - you were hoping that by leaving immediately without notice that you wouldn't have to repay it because you'd just turn around and say you couldn't pay more than 50p a week? And still have your SSP in your pocket as well.

    You only worked there for a few weeks - the clawback of overpayment was NOT slow. These are payroll processes that do not happen overnight. And, as I have pointed out, you KNEW you had been overpaid and could have either repaid that money immediately (why were you so slow at repaying it?) or kept it to one side for the point at which they did recover it.

    And you were on here to complain. You were hoping you would be able to report the employer - that is why you asked the question - and still get your SSP. Please do not try to extract the urine and act all innocent.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    I came to ask a question, you've chosen to put 2+2 together and come up with 5 and made false assumptions.

    If you must know, they initially said they'd pay me for the time off I'd taken in June, because in their words, they wanted me to stay at the company and I was already going through a difficult time. When it became apparent that I would need much more time off, I asked them to deduct the time off from my salary. They instead said they were going to take it from next years holiday allowance. I said no, I would prefer the money be deducted. I didn't need the salary.

    I've never denied owing them money, I was expecting an invoice from them for the extra that I owed them.

    I left immediately because my mother died. So wind your f*ing neck in.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 16th Oct 16, 2:28 PM
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    That changes everything, of course. I don't think. You haven't answered a single question and you still haven't explained why ask this in the first place if you were happy to pay it back, because it was paid back. End of.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 16th Oct 16, 5:32 PM
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    Savvy_Sue
    I'm not complaining about them taking the money back, I don't recall saying I had issue with it? My only grumble is that they were so bloody slow to action anything.

    I just wondered why they'd changed my leaving date and changed my printed payslips.
    Originally posted by MentalMinnie
    Payroll is never instantaneous, even with Real Time Information being supplied to HMRC. If your employers uses an outside company to run their payroll, or even if they do it internally, the deadline for making any changes is likely to be mid-month, so any backdated changes can only be made a month later.

    And I'd say your leaving date wasn't changed - the new date may have included a notice period or allowed them to make the necessary calculations. Once someone has 'left' it's very difficult to make adjustments.

    Also payslips can be changed to reflect the actual situation rather than the situation we thought prevailed at the time. I had a colleague leave early in April (expected) but they took more sick leave than they were entitled to be paid for in March. We couldn't correct the March payroll, so there was an adjustment to make in April. The March payslip had to be re-issued. The employee owed us money. It took a long time to get the payroll company to calculate accurately how much they owed us.
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    • MentalMinnie
    • By MentalMinnie 16th Oct 16, 5:44 PM
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    MentalMinnie
    That changes everything, of course. I don't think. You haven't answered a single question and you still haven't explained why ask this in the first place if you were happy to pay it back, because it was paid back. End of.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Why are you so fixated about whether I've paid the money owing or not?! That wasn't what I asked.
    Jesus Christ, I didn't ask for advice about that, you've taken it up on yourself to create a none existent issue. Despite telling you numerous times you still prattle on about it. Get over it. All I wanted to know was why they'd change my leaving date.
    Last edited by MentalMinnie; 16-10-2016 at 5:46 PM.
    • MentalMinnie
    • By MentalMinnie 16th Oct 16, 5:47 PM
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    MentalMinnie
    Payroll is never instantaneous, even with Real Time Information being supplied to HMRC. If your employers uses an outside company to run their payroll, or even if they do it internally, the deadline for making any changes is likely to be mid-month, so any backdated changes can only be made a month later.

    And I'd say your leaving date wasn't changed - the new date may have included a notice period or allowed them to make the necessary calculations. Once someone has 'left' it's very difficult to make adjustments.

    Also payslips can be changed to reflect the actual situation rather than the situation we thought prevailed at the time. I had a colleague leave early in April (expected) but they took more sick leave than they were entitled to be paid for in March. We couldn't correct the March payroll, so there was an adjustment to make in April. The March payslip had to be re-issued. The employee owed us money. It took a long time to get the payroll company to calculate accurately how much they owed us.
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
    Thank you, that's literally all I was curious about.
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