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  • FIRST POST
    • trinidadone
    • By trinidadone 13th Oct 16, 8:33 PM
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    trinidadone
    Motorists, what to do about cyclists who constantly break the high way code???
    • #1
    • 13th Oct 16, 8:33 PM
    Motorists, what to do about cyclists who constantly break the high way code??? 13th Oct 16 at 8:33 PM
    Hello Motorists,

    I have seen a news report recently of the metropolitan police in London, using bicycles to challenge motorists about road rage towards cyclists.

    What rages me so much, is the endless cyclists who often use two one way streets in my neighborhood, and constantly the wrong way.

    One of the roads fits the width of a average car only, yet despite no entry signs, these are ignored by cyclists, as they hurtle down the road.

    Tonight, i spoke to one cyclists, i told him not to endanger myself and obey the highway code.

    The two streets in question do not allow cyclists to use it the wrong way (contra flow) and there is no cycle track installed, just two large no entry signs at the start of the road.

    Im asking motorists, can anything be carried out to address this problem, or is this a sign of the times, and that motorists have to accept they are the cash cows of TFL and london boroughs, and cyclists can do what the want??

    I am keen to hear from motorists only!!
    Trinidad - The hottest place to go
Page 6
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 17th Oct 16, 2:55 PM
    • 2,970 Posts
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    Nasqueron
    Amazingly, this is the side you are supposed to filter past on, then when I open the passenger door to knock you off for going up the inside so my kid can jump out at the lights you are not in danger.

    Mr 8-12mph (12mph is a bit generous) won't ever do that though

    And yes I do cycle on the road, and as Enterprise reports, in my experience it is the buses that perform the most dangerous overtakes, despite the 360 cameras they are supposed to carry.
    Originally posted by facade

    The government endorsed "Bikeability" course actually says the bike rider should choose left or right to filter on depending on what they feel is safer. Left is more defensive but puts you in the driver's blind spot, right puts you at risk of oncoming traffic or people suddenly going right e.g. to pull a u-turn if sick of traffic
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 17th Oct 16, 2:58 PM
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    Nasqueron
    But a cyclist taking 'primary' to prevent what he perceives to be an unsafe overtake is good and safe cycling.
    Originally posted by Johno100
    Indeed, I tend to be more of a "secondary" rider to avoid queues behind me as I don't tend to be too fussed about the cars but I take primary approaching narrow parts like bollards or pedestrian crossing areas to stop cars trying to pass where they would be in touching distance.

    I usually filter left but have started doing it on the right when the road is clear and traffic is stationary as there is more room to pass safely
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 17th Oct 16, 3:12 PM
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    Car 54
    Amazingly, this is the side you are supposed to filter past on, then when I open the passenger door to knock you off for going up the inside so my kid can jump out at the lights you are not in danger.
    Originally posted by facade
    Can you find anything to support that?

    Also, opening your door so as to injure or endanger anyone is an offence. As is causing or permitting your child to do so.
    • facade
    • By facade 17th Oct 16, 3:28 PM
    • 2,192 Posts
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    facade
    Can you find anything to support that?

    Also, opening your door so as to injure or endanger anyone is an offence. As is causing or permitting your child to do so.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    I thought it was simple common sense.
    Passengers rarely get out into the middle of the road when cars stop for lights/behind a 'bus, but they often get out of the passenger side.
    (There is also a fair chance that a car with its offside wheels over the centre line is about to turn left)

    Most car drivers have a very good idea of what is happening behind on the offside, but only use the nearside mirror for reversing.

    However, since you asked...

    https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/skills/article/izn20130830-Effective-traffic-riding-part-2-0

    https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/community/how-to/filtering

    And although The Law is on your side, I always think it is rather a pyrrhic victory to be telling the driver "you will be banged up for this" from a stretcher whilst coughing up blood.
    Last edited by facade; 17-10-2016 at 3:30 PM.
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
    • custardy
    • By custardy 17th Oct 16, 3:48 PM
    • 31,507 Posts
    • 26,181 Thanks
    custardy
    Most likely, after following the cycle for 2 miles at 12mph, they have finally got a safe overtake, leaving enough space, now the lights have gone red, and the cyclist is about to get up the inside of them, wobble over the stop line and force them into either another 2 miles of 12mph, or a dangerous overtake if their patience has run out.

    I pull right over to the left if I'm the second or third car at the lights (but I don't block cycle lanes), 40 feet further back isn't going to affect Mr 12mph much, but being in front of him can take 5 or 10 minutes off my journey, and get me out of 2nd gear.
    Originally posted by facade
    10 minutes,really? so you are behind him for 2 miles in congested traffic?
    • custardy
    • By custardy 17th Oct 16, 3:50 PM
    • 31,507 Posts
    • 26,181 Thanks
    custardy
    I thought it was simple common sense.
    Passengers rarely get out into the middle of the road when cars stop for lights/behind a 'bus, but they often get out of the passenger side.
    (There is also a fair chance that a car with its offside wheels over the centre line is about to turn left)

    Most car drivers have a very good idea of what is happening behind on the offside, but only use the nearside mirror for reversing.

    However, since you asked...

    https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/skills/article/izn20130830-Effective-traffic-riding-part-2-0

    https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/community/how-to/filtering

    And although The Law is on your side, I always think it is rather a pyrrhic victory to be telling the driver "you will be banged up for this" from a stretcher whilst coughing up blood.
    Originally posted by facade
    I would certainly hope a driver is checking this mirror more than for reversing?
    Arent they checking this for left turns?
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 17th Oct 16, 3:56 PM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 1,609 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    I thought it was simple common sense.
    Passengers rarely get out into the middle of the road when cars stop for lights/behind a 'bus, but they often get out of the passenger side.
    (There is also a fair chance that a car with its offside wheels over the centre line is about to turn left)

    Most car drivers have a very good idea of what is happening behind on the offside, but only use the nearside mirror for reversing.

    However, since you asked...

    https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/skills/article/izn20130830-Effective-traffic-riding-part-2-0

    https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/community/how-to/filtering

    And although The Law is on your side, I always think it is rather a pyrrhic victory to be telling the driver "you will be banged up for this" from a stretcher whilst coughing up blood.
    Originally posted by facade

    Bikeability L3 course on filtering

    Observed Demonstration
    Filtering is moving up the inside or outside of slow moving or stationary queuing traffic. The choice of whether to filter on the inside, outside or at all rests with the cyclist who must judge if there is sufficient space to do so safely.


    http://www.cycletrainingeast.org.uk/Downloads/Bikeability_Level_3_Course_Manual.pdf
    • facade
    • By facade 17th Oct 16, 3:59 PM
    • 2,192 Posts
    • 1,146 Thanks
    facade
    10 minutes,really? so you are behind him for 2 miles in congested traffic?
    Originally posted by custardy
    Congested behind yes

    Could easily cost another 10 minutes if it means that you arrive at the major commuter route when the shall we say "less able" drivers have got there, rather than get onto it in front of them.

    If I leave for work at 10 to seven, I arrive at about twenty five past.
    If I set out at 7, I arrive at 7:45 to 7:50 simply because I am behind people for whom the fact that traffic lights go red & amber then green is a surprise, every single time, so we get 3 cars over a junction that would have passed 10 before 7:00 by which time another 3 the same have got in from that junction, so I have to wait for 2 changes at the next set, 3 at the next and so on.......

    Normally I can be in front of them by starting out 10 mins earlier.
    Best days are when they are surprised that their windscreens are icy, and it takes them an extra 5 minutes to scrape a small slot to see out of
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
    • vqmismatch
    • By vqmismatch 17th Oct 16, 5:30 PM
    • 90 Posts
    • 59 Thanks
    vqmismatch
    I drive and cycle, some people do some silly things on bikes, some do silly things in cars. When driving I have not spotted cyclists until nearly too late on many occasions, when cycling I have again not spotted drivers. Usually both are due to compromised vision and lack of lights (cycling in the rain with glasses is very much like driving with no wipers, you rely very heavily on sidelights or headlights on cars).

    Some cyclists do some frankly bonkers stuff, other things like running red lights when clear to do so are against the highway code but avoid getting caught up in everyone trying to get away from the lights. Since starting to treat red lights as a give way I have had far fewer near misses.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 17th Oct 16, 5:44 PM
    • 1,405 Posts
    • 872 Thanks
    Car 54

    Some cyclists do some frankly bonkers stuff, other things like running red lights when clear to do so are against the highway code
    Originally posted by vqmismatch
    Not just "against the HC", but a criminal offence.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 17th Oct 16, 6:03 PM
    • 31,507 Posts
    • 26,181 Thanks
    custardy
    I drive and cycle, some people do some silly things on bikes, some do silly things in cars. When driving I have not spotted cyclists until nearly too late on many occasions, when cycling I have again not spotted drivers. Usually both are due to compromised vision and lack of lights (cycling in the rain with glasses is very much like driving with no wipers, you rely very heavily on sidelights or headlights on cars).

    Some cyclists do some frankly bonkers stuff, other things like running red lights when clear to do so are against the highway code but avoid getting caught up in everyone trying to get away from the lights. Since starting to treat red lights as a give way I have had far fewer near misses.
    Originally posted by vqmismatch
    Not just "against the HC", but a criminal offence.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    I like you felt the need to cut the full quote.
    • facade
    • By facade 17th Oct 16, 6:13 PM
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    • 1,146 Thanks
    facade
    I would certainly hope a driver is checking this mirror more than for reversing?
    Arent they checking this for left turns?
    Originally posted by custardy
    Possibly, but that still won't help a cyclist going up the inside when there isn't a left turn.
    Also, some of the "drivers" I have followed tend to veer left just before they turn right, I bet they don't even realise, never mind check the nearside mirror.
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
    • boliston
    • By boliston 17th Oct 16, 8:34 PM
    • 1,738 Posts
    • 1,287 Thanks
    boliston
    Amazingly, this is the side you are supposed to filter past on, then when I open the passenger door to knock you off for going up the inside so my kid can jump out at the lights you are not in danger.

    Mr 8-12mph (12mph is a bit generous) won't ever do that though

    And yes I do cycle on the road, and as Enterprise reports, in my experience it is the buses that perform the most dangerous overtakes, despite the 360 cameras they are supposed to carry.
    Originally posted by facade
    If I'm filtering then I would be doing 5mph at most to avoid the risk of being "doored" - I find left is easiest but it depends on the amount of space there is and if i'm likely to be turning right or left any time soon
    • boliston
    • By boliston 17th Oct 16, 8:40 PM
    • 1,738 Posts
    • 1,287 Thanks
    boliston
    .....
    Some cyclists do some frankly bonkers stuff, other things like running red lights when clear to do so are against the highway code but avoid getting caught up in everyone trying to get away from the lights. Since starting to treat red lights as a give way I have had far fewer near misses.
    Originally posted by vqmismatch
    It would make more sense if every set of lights had a 5 second advance cyclist green signal to allow cyclists to get going before the mass surge of motor vehicles like "whacky races".
    • trinidadone
    • By trinidadone 17th Oct 16, 11:20 PM
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    trinidadone
    Possibly, but that still won't help a cyclist going up the inside when there isn't a left turn.
    Also, some of the "drivers" I have followed tend to veer left just before they turn right, I bet they don't even realise, never mind check the nearside mirror.
    Originally posted by facade
    Hello facade, you are absolutely correct, drivers veer left or right depending on the turn made, we are taught like that during our driving lessons, and it is also in the highway code.

    It was raining terrible today, i saw this family all on bikes in a single file, getting saturated, i felt for them dearly. I avoided the one way street on the way home today, viability was very poor.
    Trinidad - The hottest place to go
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 18th Oct 16, 12:41 AM
    • 2,220 Posts
    • 1,919 Thanks
    Richard53
    Hello facade, you are absolutely correct, drivers veer left or right depending on the turn made, we are taught like that during our driving lessons, and it is also in the highway code.
    Originally posted by trinidadone
    Can you provide a reference for that? I have never seen "make sure you swing left before a right-hand turn" in the Highway Code. I must have missed it.
    If all misfortunes were laid in one common heap whence everyone must take an equal portion, most people would be contented to take their own and depart. (Attrib. to Socrates)
    • LABMAN
    • By LABMAN 18th Oct 16, 12:56 AM
    • 472 Posts
    • 682 Thanks
    LABMAN
    It would make more sense if every set of lights had a 5 second advance cyclist green signal to allow cyclists to get going before the mass surge of motor vehicles like "whacky races".
    Originally posted by boliston
    They are long gone around here as red lights appear to be meaningless to them and just totally ignored. They slow, have a quick look around and ride through the red light. Why a pointless delay of five seconds for other road users?
    Je suis Parisien
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 18th Oct 16, 2:17 AM
    • 597 Posts
    • 363 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    Hello facade, you are absolutely correct, drivers veer left or right depending on the turn made, we are taught like that during our driving lessons, and it is also in the highway code.

    It was raining terrible today, i saw this family all on bikes in a single file, getting saturated, i felt for them dearly. I avoided the one way street on the way home today, viability was very poor.
    Originally posted by trinidadone
    I'd also be interested in that. Am now living in fear as my instructor definitely didn't teach me to swing to the opposite way of my intended turn before making the manoeuvre.

    What are YOU driving home OP? A tank? A 46T truck? Surrely you can make a right turn without swinging to the left. Otherwise you're a pretty carp driver.
    • trinidadone
    • By trinidadone 18th Oct 16, 7:48 AM
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    • 942 Thanks
    trinidadone
    They are long gone around here as red lights appear to be meaningless to them and just totally ignored. They slow, have a quick look around and ride through the red light. Why a pointless delay of five seconds for other road users?
    Originally posted by LABMAN
    Good Morning Labman, when you say them, you referring to cyclist ignoring red lights? if you are, your correct, cyclists often run red lights, but whats the answer to this? more enforcement, more cycle lane, more quiet areas, more education, any ideas?
    Trinidad - The hottest place to go
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 18th Oct 16, 8:19 AM
    • 10,450 Posts
    • 5,772 Thanks
    Strider590
    I sometimes swing the opposite direction to where im turning, my car is 5m long, failure to do so on some particular junctions would result in clipping the kerb (on a LH turn) OR swinging into the path of an oncoming car after taking the corner. How often have you been approaching a junction when someone has cut across the middle of the road in front of you whilst making a RH turn into that road?

    Taking a wide line into a corner or junction also gives the driver the best view of the road ahead and is recommended practice by IAM and ROSPA.


    For example, this lefthander is impossible without swinging right first, to the point where you have to wait for traffic from the opposite direction before turning, with some stupid moo in a Micra behind you cursing and giving obscene gestures.

    So here is a drivers side example, of how road users fail to see things from anothers point of view, stuck in their little bubble with no consideration for what it's like driving a large car, a truck, a van, motorbike or bicycle.
    Last edited by Strider590; 18-10-2016 at 8:30 AM.
    Having the last word isn't the same as being right.......

    "Never confuse education with intelligence"
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