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  • FIRST POST
    • BraveHeart
    • By BraveHeart 13th Oct 16, 8:24 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 0Thanks
    BraveHeart
    Application/Interview Result Dispute - Emergency Service
    • #1
    • 13th Oct 16, 8:24 PM
    Application/Interview Result Dispute - Emergency Service 13th Oct 16 at 8:24 PM
    Hello team MSE,

    This is a little long, but please bear with me.

    I applied to one of the Emergency Services in London, and after passing an assessment was invited to an interview on 18th August.

    On 30th August I made contact with one of the two panel members who interviewed me as I had received no feedback.
    I had a lengthy conversation with this person who raised concern about unaccounted gaps in my employment but also stated that I sat a good interview and did not fail it.
    I was informed if I were to send a complete employment history covering the gaps along with key skills gained/used, there would be potential of a second interview but this would have to be with somebody else.

    On 4th September I emailed the person above (also Cc’d two other HR staff members) my complete employment history accounting for the gaps.

    I called my interviewer on 9th September as I had received no communications. I was informed that my information had been passed on and I should contact HR.

    On 12th September I received an email from one of the two HR staff members I had Cc'd informing me that I have been unsuccessful? No reason/feedback provided.
    I called this HR staff member the following day seeking an explanation and feedback. To my surprise I was informed that my interviewer had mentioned to this HR staff that she (my interviewer) had informed me that I had failed.
    My interviewer never mentioned this to me during any of our conversations.

    I emailed my interviewer on 13th September seeking clarification and feedback, which I am yet to receive.

    I sent a letter to the Head of Recruitment for role applied for on 16th September, expressing my dissatisfaction and seeking clarification/investigation.
    Received an email acknowledging my letter and will respond no later than 14 days from receipt. GUESS WHAT?...NOTHING!!!
    Emailed this person on 9th October seeking an update, only to be informed my interviewer has been away, investigation is ongoing and will get back to me by the end of this week (14/10).

    If I do not hear from the Head of Recruitment OR if I do and the result is not in my favour, can I pursue this further?

    Your input would be greatly appreciated on this matter.
Page 1
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 13th Oct 16, 8:30 PM
    • 5,731 Posts
    • 4,266 Thanks
    ohreally
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 16, 8:30 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 16, 8:30 PM
    I think the phrase "burned bridges" is appropriate now.
    Imagination is a mental faculty that serves as a coping mechanism for those who can't or won't accept reality - unicorns and dragons and wives who don't nag, are all figments of the "imagination".

    Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.
    • BraveHeart
    • By BraveHeart 13th Oct 16, 9:08 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    BraveHeart
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 16, 9:08 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 16, 9:08 PM
    I truly do not see what I have done wrong. I have remained nothing but professional but feel let down by the Emergency Service.

    I have done all the running, and yet still awaiting feedback as to why I have not been successful.

    Bogalot - What's been my 'inappropriate response'?
    • nmr1991
    • By nmr1991 13th Oct 16, 11:59 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    nmr1991
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 16, 11:59 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 16, 11:59 PM
    You have to get used to the fact that businesses are not obliged to give you feedback or give reasons for denying your application, they may have just found a more suitable person to fill the vacancy. No matter how far in the process you get in whatever you apply for, doesn't make a difference to them, they look for certain traits that are more detectable in an interview, they probably saw something in you they didn't like, and until you sign an employment contract, they are not bound by the equality act and you have no evidence against them if you have been treated unfairly in the application process. Just thinking in the recruiters shoes here.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 14th Oct 16, 8:09 AM
    • 2,735 Posts
    • 4,277 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #5
    • 14th Oct 16, 8:09 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Oct 16, 8:09 AM
    ... until you sign an employment contract, they are not bound by the equality act and you have no evidence against them if you have been treated unfairly in the application process..
    Originally posted by nmr1991
    That is not true. Recruitment is covered by the Equality Act. However, I cannot see anything here that suggests unfairness due to a protected characteristic. General "unfairness" is not unlawful,

    Nobody is entitled to feedback. I think that Bogalot is referring to your repeated insistence on an explanation for not getting the job. That comes across as too heavy handed - that alone may be enough to suggest you are unsuitable. Ohreally is certainly correct - you have burned your bridges. There is nowhere you can go with this and at this stage I cannot see that they will entertain a further application from you in the future. Best move on.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 14th Oct 16, 8:14 AM
    • 2,650 Posts
    • 2,562 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #6
    • 14th Oct 16, 8:14 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Oct 16, 8:14 AM
    I truly do not see what I have done wrong. I have remained nothing but professional but feel let down by the Emergency Service.
    Originally posted by BraveHeart
    What you did wrong was not providing a complete employment history at the outset. Everything which has happened since then is a direct or indirect result of that. The person you spoke to from the interviewing panel may have thought they were being helpful by offering to forward the additional information, but not been fully conversant with HR procedure.
    The interview panel's thought process might even be that somebody who can't provide the most basic of information accurately, isn't the sort of person they want working in a high pressure, emergency role where clear and accurate thought is vital.
    You need to accept that the opportunity for this job is gone and, if you continue to harangue them at all levels, you will destroy any chance of getting work with them in the future too.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 14th Oct 16, 9:00 AM
    • 2,086 Posts
    • 1,776 Thanks
    Undervalued
    • #7
    • 14th Oct 16, 9:00 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Oct 16, 9:00 AM
    If I do not hear from the Head of Recruitment OR if I do and the result is not in my favour, can I pursue this further?
    Originally posted by BraveHeart
    The short answer is you can't, at least not in any useful way that is likely to benefit you.

    As others have indicated there is no right to interview feedback so it is only something you can ask nicely for and not demand.

    Unless you genuinely feel you have suffered unlawful discrimination you need to accept that they have a right to employ who they choose, for whatever reasons they choose regardless of whether that is fair or not.
    • YouAsked
    • By YouAsked 14th Oct 16, 9:02 AM
    • 95 Posts
    • 105 Thanks
    YouAsked
    • #8
    • 14th Oct 16, 9:02 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Oct 16, 9:02 AM
    Hi,

    agree with others you've burned bridges here.

    I can't speak for every single person who recruits staff, but I personally would have been quite put off by your approach.

    When you're recruiting staff, first priority is can they or will they be able to do the job. That's usually what the essential/desired criteria part of your application is for. The interview stage is to test what's on your application, but also to get a feel for how you would fit into an organisation - and for many people this is as important as your ability.

    In my experience, people want to recruit those who can do the job and fit seamlessly into an organisation with the minimum of hassle and everyone can just get on with their jobs happily. Whereas, you bungled a bit of your application then:
    4th Sept - emailed three people
    9th Sept - called up to chase
    13th Sept - called HR seeking explanation/feedback as to why you'd been unsuccessful
    13th Sept - emailed interviewer seeking clarification
    16th Sept - emailed Head of HR expressing dissatisfaction and seeking clarification/investigation

    So you're not coming across as a hassle free addition to any team, you're coming across as someone who has messed up then keeps pushing it and pushing it until you get an answer that is acceptable to you, going over people's heads until you do so, when in reality, you're not entitled to feedback for not getting a job.

    There will people involved in that process saying to each other "don't give too much detail, don't commit anything in writing"" - thinking they're dealing with someone who is either litigious or vexatious.

    Their big mistake was not saying from word go "sorry, we won't be giving feedback" or give you bland feedback such as "such a strong field of applicants".

    But the upshot is, you're not entitled to feedback regardless of what someone may have said (possibly trying to be helpful) and you're not entitled to a job. Yes, someone may have messed up at some stage and given you incorrect information, but ultimately so what? They still don't want you to work for them, regardless of what this "investigation" shows.

    Move on and learn from it.
    Last edited by YouAsked; 14-10-2016 at 9:08 AM.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 14th Oct 16, 9:22 AM
    • 14,336 Posts
    • 36,492 Thanks
    FBaby
    • #9
    • 14th Oct 16, 9:22 AM
    • #9
    • 14th Oct 16, 9:22 AM
    The problem is that this application was a bit part of your life, so you made it a priority. This raised expectations in terms of expecting an outcome.

    They on the other hand don't consider you a priority at all, as a matter of fact, dealing with your demands for feedback will be as low as it gets and the only reason they are dealing with it at all is probably as a result of following an internal HR policy. They are just ticking the box, they have no interest in giving you a job, hence why you are better moving on at this stage and accept that what has come out of this is feedback that it is essential to add on your CV the reasons for your gap in employment.
    • robatwork
    • By robatwork 14th Oct 16, 9:22 AM
    • 3,356 Posts
    • 3,567 Thanks
    robatwork
    Here it is in black & white (and green as I prefer the original forum look):

    If they were really interested in you, they would have contacted you.

    Plan your next job interview.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 14th Oct 16, 9:23 AM
    • 15,653 Posts
    • 11,355 Thanks
    agrinnall
    I'd agree that it would be a waste of time to pursue this any further. What would be better to spend your time doing is considering why you left something out of your employment history and what in future you should do if there is something in there that you don't want employers to know about.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 14th Oct 16, 9:51 AM
    • 2,735 Posts
    • 4,277 Thanks
    sangie595
    I'd agree that it would be a waste of time to pursue this any further. What would be better to spend your time doing is considering why you left something out of your employment history and what in future you should do if there is something in there that you don't want employers to know about.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    And, to be honest, considering your approach to life! By your own version of events, you went at this like a bull in a china shop. If that is the way you approach things in life, I wouldn't want you at MY emergency! Sorry, but that's a fact. Judging by the way you say you approached this, and your bullish attitude, I'm guessing that their version of the story will suggest even more of a confrontational approach. In the right circumstances and at the right time, that can be an advantage. But these definitely weren't the right circumstances, and this definitely isn't the right job to display such tendencies in. The job is about dealing calmly and quietly with highly pressured situations and people in fear and pain. You couldn't manage calmly and quietly with an everyday situation of your own making.

    That isn't a criticism, by the way. Neither could I. But I know it, and it doesn't appear you do. In employment people have to play to their strengths and not just their skills. I would be as useful as a chocolate teapot in an emergency. My sister, on the other hand, actually does work in emergency services and is extremely good at it with a bunch of commendations to her name. But she couldn't make an employer back off, or get a refund at a restaurant for a lousy meal, to save her own life! She can talk a gun man down in an armed siege over the phone. She can organise an incident room in two seconds flat. She can't tell a restaurant manager that the food was lousy, and when she needs the union she rings me! Perhaps you should consider the direction your own strengths lie?
    • Jackieboy
    • By Jackieboy 14th Oct 16, 9:56 AM
    • 251 Posts
    • 397 Thanks
    Jackieboy
    It might alao depend on what was in the employment gaps that you initially left out. I assume you left them out for a reason which seems now to have been justified.
    • Madbags
    • By Madbags 14th Oct 16, 12:04 PM
    • 128 Posts
    • 72 Thanks
    Madbags
    As others said and I can only reiterate.


    The HR advisor may have been trying to be helpful to you by letting you forward on your employment history gaps but they or someone else may have since found they were not following procedures.


    The people who actually make the decisions on the other hand will only see it as a failure to follow instructions.


    We have also in the past decided not to recruit someone because they did not bring in their certifications to their interview when asked prior to the interview. They were also asked to bring them in should they be invited to a second interview but by that time we had already found someone who could follow instructions from the get go.
    • HiToAll
    • By HiToAll 14th Oct 16, 1:29 PM
    • 835 Posts
    • 1,228 Thanks
    HiToAll
    I think you should sue them, that will then get you a job with them, as employers love that.

    or you could move on.......
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