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  • FIRST POST
    • sammy_kaye18
    • By sammy_kaye18 13th Oct 16, 5:47 PM
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    sammy_kaye18
    No relationship between father and son...
    • #1
    • 13th Oct 16, 5:47 PM
    No relationship between father and son... 13th Oct 16 at 5:47 PM
    Hi All
    Some of you may know me because I frequent other boards but if not Hello

    Anyway I am having a dilemma at the minute with my son. Hes 12 years old and is in the second year of comprehensive. Hes always been a good student, relatively happy, has a good bunch of friends hes known since nursery etc......has a tendency to day dream - usual stuff.

    Anyway the last year or so things have been going downhill gradually. We had his parents evening last week and they said hes a bit slow getting to classes, daydreams, doesn't really do his homework (but its never written in his homework diary so I don't know he has it).

    Anyway I dragged his father to it and he told him off for his lack of effort and that was all that he said on the matter.

    Roll on to this week and on Tuesday I had a phone call from the school saying my son and a friend has been playing about in the toilets (its a strict school and during class time you have to sign for a key to go to the toilet) and one of them had set off the fire alarm. It turns out it was the boy my son was with and that he had admitted it.
    Either way he spent Wednesday in isolation with his deputy head of year.
    I then got a phone call from the deputy head to say he had actually missed the whole of his lesson messing round in the toilets so they were excluding him for the whole of Thursday and he could come back to school Friday.

    I rang my husband to tell him and his response was 'well I cant deal with that, you'll have to'. So I have confiscated his phone, grounded him and banned him from Scouts for this week. Hes also on report for two weeks in school as of tomorrow and what will be the week after half term.

    I had a heart to heart with my son last night and I think I have made him see sense now. His father came home though and didn't even acknowledge him or say two words to him.

    I'm sorry this is so long winded....but bare with me

    Today my son has been with my MIL whilst Ive been in work and hes been fine. Hes done all the work he was set. He got stuck on science so he asked his grandad who gave him some 1 to 1 help and he has taken it all in and seems happy. They even built circuits together in his grandads shed to help with the homework.

    But when hes talking about his dad/my husband - he is so unattached to him. My husband has another son who is 15 from a previous relationship and we have a daughter together also who is 6.
    Everything we do 'as a family' is me and the 3 kids - or me and my two kids.......we are never altogether because my husband doesn't want to be involved. Even when we are making plans (we see my step son one weekend a month), the kids never include their dad. My son refers to me, his sister and himself as the 3 musketeers.....all our days out are always the three of us.
    My husband doesn't come anywhere with us - through choice - not because hes working etc.....he spends no time with the kids in the evening either - he sits playing games on the PC or his phone. I may as well be a lone parent for all the input he gives me with the kids.

    He has all the time in the world for his other son though and makes a point of saying in front our two children that hes spending time/taking him/going with him to places......he does collect our daughter from school as well on his days off but our son (the middle child) he seems to have no time for at all.....

    I'm at a loss. I have tried talking to him and telling him what our son has said but it falls on deaf ears. His attitude is he doesn't want to bother with him if hes going to be such a naughty child so why should he speak to him. Even my MIL has seen how unattached he is from his dad and heard the way he talks about him and shes worried about it. I don't know what to do.

    Hes not a bad kid, I think hes just wanting attention but has gone about it in the wrong way. Hes one of the highest decorated scouts in his pack, he raises money for charities, he volunteers, his teachers all praise him for being a kind and considerate kid and have even said the last month or so is completely out of character for him.

    I dont know what to do.

    I could understand if we were separated and they didn't get much time together but me and his father have been together for 14 years!

    A husband who doesn't listen, and a son who seems to be asking for attention. Does anyone have any advice please?
    Back working and happy in my job
    ....Working on becoming Me ....
Page 1
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 13th Oct 16, 7:53 PM
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    PeacefulWaters
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 16, 7:53 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 16, 7:53 PM
    Family counselling.
    • SunnyCyprus
    • By SunnyCyprus 13th Oct 16, 8:11 PM
    • 44 Posts
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    SunnyCyprus
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 16, 8:11 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 16, 8:11 PM
    I feel really very sorry for your son. To miss out on an absent father is one thing, but to miss out on a father who is physically present is quite another. The sense of 'loss' can be very hard to live with.
    One option I might try would be to put the father in charge of some errand or another which involves your son, kind of 'forced team work' type of thing. Best outcome: your husband starts to talk to/spend a little time with son. Worst outcome: your husband refuses/is not willing to try. That would give me my answer. Basically, you either all pull together and work as an equal family or he does you a favour and leaves the picture, giving you a chance to be the family of 'mum and kids' without the ever present reminder that he is there and doesn't take part in anything.
    Xxx
    If you want to do something, you will find a way.
    If you don't, then you will find an excuse...
    • Jackieboy
    • By Jackieboy 13th Oct 16, 8:36 PM
    • 251 Posts
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    Jackieboy
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 16, 8:36 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 16, 8:36 PM
    I feel really very sorry for your son. To miss out on an absent father is one thing, but to miss out on a father who is physically present is quite another. The sense of 'loss' can be very hard to live with.
    One option I might try would be to put the father in charge of some errand or another which involves your son, kind of 'forced team work' type of thing. Best outcome: your husband starts to talk to/spend a little time with son. Worst outcome: your husband refuses/is not willing to try. That would give me my answer. Basically, you either all pull together and work as an equal family or he does you a favour and leaves the picture, giving you a chance to be the family of 'mum and kids' without the ever present reminder that he is there and doesn't take part in anything.
    Xxx
    Originally posted by SunnyCyprus
    Nobody should be encouraged to break up a marriage and family unless there's domestic abuse involved. It's not an ideal situation but not everybody's cut out to be a hands on parent.
    • whitewing
    • By whitewing 13th Oct 16, 8:43 PM
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    whitewing
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 16, 8:43 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 16, 8:43 PM
    Get grandad to have a man to man chat with dad and see what's going on.

    Maybe get the 3 of them to start going out together. Build some shared activities and then the two of them will get to like each other and sort themselves out.
    When you find people who not only tolerate your quirks but celebrate them with glad cries of "Me too!" be sure to cherish them. Because these weirdos are your true family.
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 13th Oct 16, 9:53 PM
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    gettingtheresometime
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 16, 9:53 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 16, 9:53 PM
    Sounds as if family counselling would be useful but I'd go into it with my eyes wide open.....you may learn something (and I have no idea of what it could be) that may blow the family apart.

    The other thing that you may want to consider is why your husband treats treats his eldest son so different from his half siblings...is it guilt ?
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge
    • barbiedoll
    • By barbiedoll 13th Oct 16, 11:00 PM
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    barbiedoll
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 16, 11:00 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 16, 11:00 PM
    Your husband sounds like a complete @rse to be honest.

    I do know (not from experience, I only have one child) that many parents who have several children, often admit that they "prefer" one child over another. My colleague recently told me that she finds her younger son "hard work" if they go out together, she gets along much better with her older son, although as she said...she loves them both equally.

    Even my mum admits that she finds my sister hard to get along with sometimes. There's a definite personality clash, although they love each other dearly. They often argue and bicker, whereas I'm much more tolerant of my mum's ways and habits (as she is of mine) and we tend to get along quite well most of the time.

    It could just be that your husband's older son is his first-born and he feels a special bond with him. And your daughter is his little girl, his baby and so he feels differently about her. So your son just gets left out. Maybe they just don't have much in common, their personalities just don't "gel"

    But....when you're a parent, you have to hide this. When your kids are grown-up and old enough to realise that not everyone gets along with everyone else, then fine, you can agree to disagree. And you don't have to see them too often if you don't want to. But to treat one of your children so differently, to basically ignore them just because they're not so special to you, is tantamount to child abuse. It's no wonder your son is playing up at school, it probably is a cry for attention. My son went through a similar phase when I had to return to work full-time, I think, understandably he felt a little side-lined after years of being my number one priority.

    Can you get your dad to spend more time with your son? If his father won't step up to the plate, then his granddad sounds like an ideal male role model, especially if they get along well anyway.

    And much as I don't like the idea of encouraging anyone to split up their family, it sounds as though yours is split already. But personally, I think I that I would find it very hard to live with a man who treated his own child so badly.
    "I may be many things but not being indiscreet isn't one of them"
    • POPPYOSCAR
    • By POPPYOSCAR 13th Oct 16, 11:04 PM
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    POPPYOSCAR
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 16, 11:04 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 16, 11:04 PM
    Your husband sounds like a complete @rse to be honest.

    I do know (not from experience, I only have one child) that many parents who have several children, often admit that they "prefer" one child over another. My colleague recently told me that she finds her younger son "hard work" if they go out together, she gets along much better with her older son, although as she said...she loves them both equally.

    Even my mum admits that she finds my sister hard to get along with sometimes. There's a definite personality clash, although they love each other dearly. They often argue and bicker, whereas I'm much more tolerant of my mum's ways and habits (as she is of mine) and we tend to get along quite well most of the time.

    It could just be that your husband's older son is his first-born and he feels a special bond with him. And your daughter is his little girl, his baby and so he feels differently about her. So your son just gets left out. Maybe they just don't have much in common, their personalities just don't "gel"

    But....when you're a parent, you have to hide this. When your kids are grown-up and old enough to realise that not everyone gets along with everyone else, then fine, you can agree to disagree. And you don't have to see them too often if you don't want to. But to treat one of your children so differently, to basically ignore them just because they're not so special to you, is tantamount to child abuse. It's no wonder your son is playing up at school, it probably is a cry for attention. My son went through a similar phase when I had to return to work full-time, I think, understandably he felt a little side-lined after years of being my number one priority.

    Can you get your dad to spend more time with your son? If his father won't step up to the plate, then his granddad sounds like an ideal male role model, especially if they get along well anyway.

    And much as I don't like the idea of encouraging anyone to split up their family, it sounds as though yours is split already. But personally, I think I that I would find it very hard to live with a man who treated his own child so badly.
    Originally posted by barbiedoll
    I wholeheartedly agree.
    • marisco
    • By marisco 13th Oct 16, 11:10 PM
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    marisco
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 16, 11:10 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 16, 11:10 PM
    This must be such an awful situation for yourself and your children. I hope that you will find a way to come through this a much happier and stronger family. Sadly counselling will only be useful and successful if your husband wants to make the necessary changes in his relationship with all of you. Reading between the lines I don't think he does or will.
    The best day of your life is the one on which you decide your life is your own, no apologies or excuses. No one to lean on, rely on or blame. The gift is yours - it is an amazing journey - and you alone are responsible for the quality of it. This is the day your life really begins.
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 13th Oct 16, 11:15 PM
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    gettingtheresometime
    It could just be that your husband's older son is his first-born and he feels a special bond with him. And your daughter is his little girl, his baby and so he feels differently about her. So your son just gets left out. Maybe they just don't have much in common, their personalities just don't "gel"
    Originally posted by barbiedoll
    I did wonder what then husband's reaction was like when the middle child was born? Was it different to when the youngest, the daughter, was born.

    It did cross my mind that he may have preferred a girl as he already had a son
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 14th Oct 16, 7:49 AM
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    FBaby
    His attitude is he doesn't want to bother with him if hes going to be such a naughty child so why should he speak to him
    The reality is that it sounds like although he certainly loves your boy, he might not like him much at the moment. Maybe he is disappointed, maybe he is making the big mistake of focusing on the negatives rather than the positives. Maybe he built an idea of what boys should be like in his mind and is struggling with the fact that your boy doesn't meet that fantasy.

    Unfortunately, it is quite common and yes, it is very hard for any child to deal with this emotionally. I wouldn't be surprised if deep inside, your husband knows that he should make more of an effort and change his mindset but he gets stuck at the stage of doing so. He can't tell you how he feels though as believes you would be horrified if you knew how he felt.

    All you can do is try to get him to open up and realise the impact his behaviour is having on his son, whilst making sure that you are giving your son plenty of positive attention, not over-compensating, but so that he doesn't grow up thinking he is worthless because his dad can't be bothered to spend time with him.
    • POPPYOSCAR
    • By POPPYOSCAR 14th Oct 16, 3:45 PM
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    POPPYOSCAR
    It would seem to me that abuse is taking place here.

    Both to the mother but in particular their son.

    Their son is 12 years old, a child in crisis by the sound of things.

    A parent should not stop talking to their child because they are naughty. Incredible IMO.
    • sammy_kaye18
    • By sammy_kaye18 14th Oct 16, 4:59 PM
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    sammy_kaye18
    Hi All

    Thank you for all your input firstly.

    Secondly - the eldest son doesn't live with us but the mother banned him from seeing his dad fro years, they weren't particularly close whilst he was growing up but now he is a teenager and rebelling against his mother he has found a bond with his father. Whilst he was going through the awkward beginning of teenage years my husband wasn't really allowed to be there for him so he is experiencing all the changes for the first time with our son.

    At the time our son was born, he was not seeing his eldest , so they were incredibly close and he was a very hands on dad and doted on him. He also doted on our daughter as well as he had wanted a girl.

    Part of me thinks its because he doesnt know how to handle this as he has no experience of this sort of behaviour, and part of me thinks he is just being an !!!!. I have had some experience - my own sister was a little f***er in school and ended up arrested at 17 and was in court all her major birthdays so Im use to seeing discipline etc handed out by my parents whereas he hasnt.

    I feel awful for it but I made a point yesterday of taking a picture of my boy sat building circuits with his grandad and put it on my social media page.....it got plenty of likes and lots of comments about how sweet it was. Husband came home and talked to our son briefly.

    I also made a point today of talking to my husband and saying I think it is a cry for attention and that even though he has been naughty - he is still 12 and he needs his dad.......I didn't get a response though so I am wondering if he has been mulling it over today - although I think that is wishful thinking.

    To his credit - my son was on report for the first day today and has come home with 'Excellent' for all his subjects and shining comments bar one which was he had to be told to spit his gum out, but apart from that I'm landed that he is doing well and thought of highly by his teachers.

    I will update you all later on what happens tonight.

    I think maybe the family counselling is something to look into but my husband very much revolves around his eldest when he is here and if he doesnt want to do something , then my husband doesnt really make him. But I will look into it.
    Back working and happy in my job
    ....Working on becoming Me ....
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 14th Oct 16, 5:15 PM
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    FBaby
    You husband IS the adult and needs to act like one. So he has some issues with his boy's behaviour, but it is as much his responsible to learn how to handle it as you.

    I bet deep inside he feels really guilty and knows it is wrong, but if he can bury his head in the sand, he'll continue to do so. You are doing the right to remind him that his behaviour is not acceptable and more than that, contributing to your boy's own behaviour.
    • Jackieboy
    • By Jackieboy 14th Oct 16, 5:40 PM
    • 251 Posts
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    Jackieboy
    It would seem to me that abuse is taking place here.

    Both to the mother but in particular their son.

    Their son is 12 years old, a child in crisis by the sound of things.

    A parent should not stop talking to their child because they are naughty. Incredible IMO.
    Originally posted by POPPYOSCAR
    Well - there's several exaggerations all in one post!
    • KiKi
    • By KiKi 14th Oct 16, 10:50 PM
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    KiKi
    Hi All
    His attitude is he doesn't want to bother with him if hes going to be such a naughty child so why should he speak to him.
    Originally posted by sammy_kaye18
    Does he realise that a) he raised this child so has some responsibility here; b) your son screwed up *once* by missing *one* lesson and mucking about in the toilets...yes, needs to be nipped in the bud, but hardly crime of the century; and c) HE'S THE PARENT AND A GROWN ADULT?

    He's behaving like a teenager: "He's been mean so I'm not talking to him." Does your OH have any idea how ignoring a child can create that sense of abandonment? How cruel that is? How damaging his words can be? His role is to love and to guide and to discipline, not to throw a hissy fit because his son isn't perfect. Maybe you should treat your husband like that, see how he likes it for a week.

    I remember watching a parenting show on TV some years ago where the super nanny (or whoever) gave the dad a bow and arrows and made him shoot arrows into a picture of his daughter's face. After the first one she told him this is what is was like for his daughter, every time he was unkind to her. The dad was sobbing as he shot the last few arrows. He genuinely thought that parenting by yelling or ignoring was okay behaviour, as that's what you do with peers as you grow up. He really hadn't thought about how it would impact his child.

    Hes not a bad kid, I think hes just wanting attention but has gone about it in the wrong way. Hes one of the highest decorated scouts in his pack, he raises money for charities, he volunteers, his teachers all praise him for being a kind and considerate kid and have even said the last month or so is completely out of character for him.
    He doesn't sound bad at all. It's his dad that's the problem here, from what you've posted.

    KiKi
    Last edited by KiKi; 14-10-2016 at 10:54 PM.
    ' <-- See that? It's called an apostrophe. It does not mean "hey, look out, here comes an S".
    • Mupette
    • By Mupette 15th Oct 16, 8:54 AM
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    Mupette
    Well - there's several exaggerations all in one post!
    Originally posted by Jackieboy
    But i can see the emotional abuse as well, abuse does not need to be physical.

    When dad lost his father, he didn't speak to mum or me for 6 months. It was awful, yes dad was mourning the loss of his dad, but he completely ignored us, it was a really horrible time. When your dad want's nothing to do with you and you haven't done anything wrong. In turn it made mum upset and she would then take out her frustrations out on me, it was a very cold 6 months.

    The OP's son needs to know he is loved and in a happy home from both parents, seeing your own father ignore you, and probably hear the comments he has said about his will hurt, and cause anger and frustration, and so the boy is taking this out by being silly in school, its a vicious circle at a very emotional time for the teen.

    Maybe you have not had such experiences in your life, maybe you have learnt to grow a thick skin and can handle anything, doesn't make you a superstar, makes you come across as cold and callous and i am sure deep down you are not.

    GNU
    Terry Pratchett
    ((((Ripples))))

    • Kynthia
    • By Kynthia 15th Oct 16, 10:03 AM
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    Kynthia
    Having a rough time, going through a bad patch, not communicating in the best way, being unfair at times, anything that upsets a child, etc are not abuse. You belittle actual abuse (including mental) when you overuse the term.

    Yes the dad needs to change now that his son is becoming a teenager and changing. I hope he does.
    Don't listen to me, I'm no expert!
    • Jackieboy
    • By Jackieboy 15th Oct 16, 11:06 AM
    • 251 Posts
    • 396 Thanks
    Jackieboy
    But i can see the emotional abuse as well, abuse does not need to be physical.

    When dad lost his father, he didn't speak to mum or me for 6 months. It was awful, yes dad was mourning the loss of his dad, but he completely ignored us, it was a really horrible time. When your dad want's nothing to do with you and you haven't done anything wrong. In turn it made mum upset and she would then take out her frustrations out on me, it was a very cold 6 months.

    The OP's son needs to know he is loved and in a happy home from both parents, seeing your own father ignore you, and probably hear the comments he has said about his will hurt, and cause anger and frustration, and so the boy is taking this out by being silly in school, its a vicious circle at a very emotional time for the teen.

    Maybe you have not had such experiences in your life, maybe you have learnt to grow a thick skin and can handle anything, doesn't make you a superstar, makes you come across as cold and callous and i am sure deep down you are not.
    Originally posted by Mupette
    Whilst such behaviout isn't going to win any parenting awards, labelling any less than perfect strategies as "abuse" is counterproductive and an insult to all those children who are genuinely abused, both emotionally and physically. It's on a par with calling someone who disagrees with you a bully, which also happens frequently on here.
    • Jojo the Tightfisted
    • By Jojo the Tightfisted 15th Oct 16, 3:43 PM
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    Jojo the Tightfisted
    Whilst such behaviout isn't going to win any parenting awards, labelling any less than perfect strategies as "abuse" is counterproductive and an insult to all those children who are genuinely abused, both emotionally and physically. It's on a par with calling someone who disagrees with you a bully, which also happens frequently on here.
    Originally posted by Jackieboy
    Not necessarily - after all, if a parent is disinterested for years when the kid has been, to all intents and purposes, a model child, to ignore it when they do something wrong reinforces the 'I don't care about you'. Why bother being well behaved, why bother being the one who does their homework, why bother walking away from stuff that sounds like a laugh if the only reward is the parent just not caring one way or the other?

    I wonder whether the not seeing the eldest was a response to his father not being particularly interested in the boy earlier? It often gets painted as the evil ex doing it to get back at the absent parent, but it's not always the case; sometimes it's the result of somebody having had enough of arguments about refusing to attend parents' evenings, not bothering with any school plays, not taking the kid out but leaving the other parent to be the only one engaged with their child and perhaps ignoring the child whether they do well or get into trouble. And, yes, seeing the absent parent suddenly become a hands on parent with a subsequent child when they've not been remotely interested in their first child's existence or wellbeing.


    The final part of that could also translate to your son - he's gone from feeling close to his father to possibly feeling cast aside once the eldest was back in the picture. To the extent that he's almost accepted it, going by his 'Three Musketeers' analogy. Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt still, but it's sad that he has been put in that position by his father.

    Refusing to speak to a child is abusive - it's sending the message that 'I don't care about you'. There's a whole world of difference between 'I don't know what to say and I don't want to say the wrong thing because I'm disappointed/angry, so I'm going to take a little time to think before I speak' and 'I'm not speaking to HIM [because I know that will hurt /I don't actually care/I've got my boy so don't need to waste my time with another kid]', the latter being how it could feel to your son.


    It's not easy and, whilst the actual events leading to this aren't in themselves hugely significant (skivving off one lesson and being a bit of a wally, then getting caught because a mate is an ever bigger wally), as they're the sort of daft things that teenagers get up to at school - although I would point out to him that seriously, it's really not worth the hassle to be chewing gum in class when you're on report - the underlying stuff is significant.

    You can't make a parent care or be interested. But you can let your son talk about it to you if he wants, encourage time with his grandfather and hopefully the knowledge of the love and care that the rest of you freely give him will give him the emotional strength to cope with the failings of his father.

    Oh, and bearing in mind his age, he'll probably do a couple more daft things and still be forgetting to do his homework right up until halfway through Year 10 . It's what teenagers do - by year 11, all but a very few, usually those from the most chaotic homes, are sorted.
    I could dream to wide extremes, I could do or die: I could yawn and be withdrawn and watch the world go by.

    Yup you are officially Rock n Roll
    Originally posted by colinw
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