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  • FIRST POST
    • amalis
    • By amalis 13th Oct 16, 12:06 PM
    • 499Posts
    • 213Thanks
    amalis
    Fence ,gates and bad neighbour
    • #1
    • 13th Oct 16, 12:06 PM
    Fence ,gates and bad neighbour 13th Oct 16 at 12:06 PM
    Hi,
    I hope this is the right place to ask. We have replaced our old rotting fence and for some reason decided to make a small gates. I was against, but it looks nice. Now, on the other side is a large industrial estate. The gates are opening into our garden, but we always keep it locked and never planned to go out, although there are lots of trading companies and many people on the estate always. Now the manager of the industrial estate wrote us a letter that we gained unauthorised access and gives us 7 days to remove the gates I am very upset. What can I do about it? He also said that there were people and children coming out of our gates ,but that is not true.
Page 2
    • phil24_7
    • By phil24_7 13th Oct 16, 2:49 PM
    • 1,268 Posts
    • 569 Thanks
    phil24_7
    What a silly thing to do!

    I personally would have had one fence panel that could be easily unbolted from the inside in case I needed to remove it. This would have been impossible to see from the outside and would also not imply I was intending to use it as an access at any point.

    See what your deeds state too as they may require a specific boundary marker to be kept in place.

    In your case I would do as soA has stated in the first instance and if this doesn't work then make a fence panel to fit in the gap and coach bolt it to the posts.

    If I were the estate manager I would also be a bit peeved at you so don't expect discussions to go as well as they might, had you talked to him first.
    • 27cool
    • By 27cool 13th Oct 16, 3:45 PM
    • 89 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    27cool
    What a weird thread!
    It's not your land. Why do you think that you can use it for access, no matter how rarely you might ever want to.
    I can understand that they view the gate with a great deal of animosity. I would, if I was in their position.
    • amalis
    • By amalis 13th Oct 16, 4:06 PM
    • 499 Posts
    • 213 Thanks
    amalis
    ok,I understand i'll ask another question- can I when repairing my own fence install a decorative gate? (say I have a funny sense of beauty)?
    • Grenage
    • By Grenage 13th Oct 16, 4:37 PM
    • 877 Posts
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    Grenage
    Do your house papers say anything about maintaining the boundary?
    • amalis
    • By amalis 13th Oct 16, 4:42 PM
    • 499 Posts
    • 213 Thanks
    amalis
    Do your house papers say anything about maintaining the boundary?
    Originally posted by Grenage


    I am not sure, but why it is important? The new fence stands exactly on the place of the old rotten one.I haven't created a new boundary
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 13th Oct 16, 4:44 PM
    • 2,579 Posts
    • 3,446 Thanks
    George Michael
    ok,I understand i'll ask another question- can I when repairing my own fence install a decorative gate?
    Originally posted by amalis
    Yes.
    You can install a decorative gate or a fully functional gate, the choice is yours.
    If the estate is private land then actually using that gate to gain access to the land on the other side is where the legal problems might begin.
    Even though the estate may be accessible to the public doesn't mean that anyone any everyone has a right to enter and the estate management has the right to prohibit entry to whomever they desire. (provided that this prohibition isn't done on the grounds of race, colour, religion, sex or disability)
    • TheCyclingProgrammer
    • By TheCyclingProgrammer 13th Oct 16, 4:48 PM
    • 1,926 Posts
    • 1,041 Thanks
    TheCyclingProgrammer
    If a neighbour decided to replace a fence panel between our gardens with a gate, I'd also be pretty irritated. I wouldn't drop the issue, regardless of being told that it's "bolted" or "locked".
    Originally posted by Grenage
    What if they decided to remove the fence entirely?

    I agree with the consensus that adding a gate to a fence that you have no desire to use on a regular basis, or that would only open onto private property, seems a bit pointless.

    But it is what it is - unless OP is actually trespassing on the neighbours property and they have evidence of this then as far as I can tell they have no right to demand the gate be removed as its not on their property.

    Equally, there is nothing stopping their neighbour from doing something to obstruct the gateway from their side of the fence so long as they don't encroach on OPs property. If preventing access to their property along their shared boundaries is so important to them, then why don't *they* erect a fence?
    Last edited by TheCyclingProgrammer; 13-10-2016 at 4:51 PM.
    • Grenage
    • By Grenage 13th Oct 16, 4:49 PM
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    • 821 Thanks
    Grenage
    I am not sure, but why it is important? The new fence stands exactly on the place of the old rotten one.I haven't created a new boundary
    Originally posted by amalis
    My parent's paperwork says that they must maintain a 6-foot fence along the boundary separating the house to their left.

    Paperwork is quite important.

    Assuming no such stipulations exist, I can't see why it would be a problem legally, but I would expect the owner of the adjacent land to erect something immediately behind it.
    • amalis
    • By amalis 13th Oct 16, 4:52 PM
    • 499 Posts
    • 213 Thanks
    amalis
    I don't mind them installing anything to obstruct the disputed gate, but they threaten to pass cost on to us.
    • Grenage
    • By Grenage 13th Oct 16, 4:55 PM
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    • 821 Thanks
    Grenage
    They can threaten all they like; unless there's some sort of covenant. Just check your paperwork.

    P.S: I still think you're mad.
    • TheCyclingProgrammer
    • By TheCyclingProgrammer 13th Oct 16, 4:56 PM
    • 1,926 Posts
    • 1,041 Thanks
    TheCyclingProgrammer
    I don't mind them installing anything to obstruct the disputed gate, but they threaten to pass cost on to us.
    Originally posted by amalis
    Check your deeds to see what it says about maintaining your boundary. Unless its specific, then its likely all you have to do is make sure the boundary line is clear.

    Let them threaten all they want about passing on the costs of installing a fence on *their* land to protect *their* land. It would get laughed out of court.
    • amalis
    • By amalis 13th Oct 16, 4:57 PM
    • 499 Posts
    • 213 Thanks
    amalis
    What if they decided to remove the fence entirely?

    I agree with the consensus that adding a gate to a fence that you have no desire to use on a regular basis, or that would only open onto private property, seems a bit pointless.

    But it is what it is - unless OP is actually trespassing on the neighbours property and they have evidence of this then as far as I can tell they have no right to demand the gate be removed as its not on their property.

    Equally, there is nothing stopping their neighbour from doing something to obstruct the gateway from their side of the fence so long as they don't encroach on OPs property. If preventing access to their property along their shared boundaries is so important to them, then why don't *they* erect a fence?
    Originally posted by TheCyclingProgrammer


    well when the fence was repaired (which was 4 month ago) the fencer was obviously stepping on the other side when working. That's the only time I can think when someone stepped on their land. It was 1 day job and since then the gates were not opened. Does that qualify ?
    • amalis
    • By amalis 13th Oct 16, 5:03 PM
    • 499 Posts
    • 213 Thanks
    amalis
    What he wrote me : " , to install a door will not only invalidated our insurance but has set a stage where potential risk will have to be redefined for compliance reasons." and " We understand this is your fence and as such it is your responsibility to rectify the defect to avert any potential risk." " You are required to replace with fence restricting access in or out of your property".
    • Grenage
    • By Grenage 13th Oct 16, 5:07 PM
    • 877 Posts
    • 821 Thanks
    Grenage
    Just go and check your paperwork, then you'll know where you stand.
    • TheCyclingProgrammer
    • By TheCyclingProgrammer 13th Oct 16, 5:25 PM
    • 1,926 Posts
    • 1,041 Thanks
    TheCyclingProgrammer
    What he wrote me : " , to install a door will not only invalidated our insurance but has set a stage where potential risk will have to be redefined for compliance reasons." and " We understand this is your fence and as such it is your responsibility to rectify the defect to avert any potential risk." " You are required to replace with fence restricting access in or out of your property".
    Originally posted by amalis
    Legal bluster IMO. They have every right to prevent you from accessing their property, either by constructing a barrier or by taking out an injunction to stop you from accessing their property. But I don't think they have any legal remedy to you simply having a gate on your property.

    Potential access is not the same as trespass. You could have *no* fence at all if your boundaries do not state you need to maintain one, and simply run a piece of string to clearly mark your boundary. This would give you even more access to their property than a gate, but they still wouldn't be able to force you to put up a fence if you had no covenant stipulating you needed to maintain one.

    As I said before, if securing their boundary is that important to them (for insurance purposes) then it seems like it would be prudent for them to erect their own fence at their own cost along the boundary on their property.

    Of course this doesn't change the fact that the practical solution to this is to remove the gate if you don't want the hassle and don't actually want to use it, as soon as the funds are available.
    Last edited by TheCyclingProgrammer; 13-10-2016 at 5:33 PM.
    • Head The Ball
    • By Head The Ball 13th Oct 16, 5:59 PM
    • 1,793 Posts
    • 3,811 Thanks
    Head The Ball
    ok,I understand i'll ask another question- can I when repairing my own fence install a decorative gate? (say I have a funny sense of beauty)?
    Originally posted by amalis
    I presume that you are suggesting installing something that looks nice from your side but ugly or offensive from their side.

    I wouldn't do that under any circumstances.

    Don't get into a battle with people who can interfere with your home and your life far more than you can interfere with theirs.

    You live in your home. The people you will be battling don't live next to you.

    You could find your expensive fence mysteriously set on fire one night. You could find a source of irritating loud noise appears near you. You could find all sorts of rubbish appearing in your garden. There are 101 other unpleasant possibilities.
    When I was growing up plastic surgery was a bit of a taboo subject. These days if you mention botox no one raises an eyebrow.
    • maninthestreet
    • By maninthestreet 13th Oct 16, 10:43 PM
    • 14,888 Posts
    • 13,132 Thanks
    maninthestreet
    There is no way they can force you to replace the gate with a fixed fence without a court agreeing with them.
    "You were only supposed to blow the bl**dy doors off!!"
    • konark
    • By konark 14th Oct 16, 1:28 AM
    • 743 Posts
    • 579 Thanks
    konark
    It might be silly to have a non-functioning gate but it's your land and you can have as many gates in the fence as you like (as long as you don't use them to access the estate) or no fence at all. If it was me I'd just take the gate off its hinges leaving an open gap and then write back to say you have removed the gate according to their wishes. See how they like those apples.

    Have some of your neighbours received the same letter? Maybe someone else has a gate and is letting people into the estate so they've written to everybody who has a gate.

    You could find your expensive fence mysteriously set on fire one night. You could find a source of irritating loud noise appears near you. You could find all sorts of rubbish appearing in your garden. There are 101 other unpleasant possibilities.
    Who owns the estate, the cosa nostra?
    • Head The Ball
    • By Head The Ball 14th Oct 16, 12:30 PM
    • 1,793 Posts
    • 3,811 Thanks
    Head The Ball
    ..Who owns the estate, the cosa nostra?
    Originally posted by konark
    That is a possibility.

    Whoever owns it, there is no point in unnecessarily provoking them.
    When I was growing up plastic surgery was a bit of a taboo subject. These days if you mention botox no one raises an eyebrow.
    • Airwolf20721
    • By Airwolf20721 21st Oct 16, 12:23 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Airwolf20721
    So you put a gate there in case one day you need to bring a big funiture or something like that! Good idea but to get round this why don't you build a fence but in the middle think where it can easy be taken off! EG like a secreat gate you cant tell from the other side.
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