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  • FIRST POST
    • Dave Sk
    • By Dave Sk 13th Oct 16, 11:58 AM
    • 36Posts
    • 14Thanks
    Dave Sk
    Help with Parking Eye in Aldi after double dipping
    • #1
    • 13th Oct 16, 11:58 AM
    Help with Parking Eye in Aldi after double dipping 13th Oct 16 at 11:58 AM
    Hi folks,

    Wondering if anyone can help. My car visited Aldi on a Fri night and again on the following Sat daytime. Parking Eye have sent me as keeper an "Parking Charge Notice" claiming it was a 17 hour stay.

    I've looked at the FAQ and read a few threads but unsure on a few bits and would also really appreciate some "personalised" info if that's not too much to ask.

    I'll complain to Aldi today. But what's the best way? Facebook, email, go into store? Also, do I have to avoid telling them who the driver was or do I just tell them the full and honest details and hope that common sense prevails?

    Secondly, I've read the appeal letter to parking eye to get a POPLA code but can I just add my own text to that about the double dip? And do I remove the stuff about lettering size?


    Any help much appreciated, I'm currently feeling a mixture of great injustice along with a feeling that I should just pay the £40 to make it go away and avoid the stress...

    Thanks,
    Dave
Page 1
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Oct 16, 12:09 PM
    • 5,561 Posts
    • 4,272 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 16, 12:09 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 16, 12:09 PM
    No need to conceal driver, they are more than aware that their ANPR systems are dodgy. Just tell it as it was and should cancel immediately.

    By all means complain to Aldi, they too must be familiar with the problem. Also, a mention on Aldi's Facebook page will add to the pressure.
    Last edited by The Deep; 13-10-2016 at 12:11 PM.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 13th Oct 16, 12:10 PM
    • 1,070 Posts
    • 1,326 Thanks
    Castle
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 16, 12:10 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 16, 12:10 PM
    Here's how somebody dealt with a "double-dip":-
    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/parkingeye-subject-to-data-protection.html
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 13th Oct 16, 12:19 PM
    • 2,248 Posts
    • 2,731 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 16, 12:19 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 16, 12:19 PM
    hi and welcome to the forum ...

    "I'll complain to Aldi today. But what's the best way? Facebook, email, go into store? Also, do I have to avoid telling them who the driver was"

    yes complain every way you can , even head office / CEO

    complain as the keeper ..... imagine that I was driving for you ....

    when did this heinous deed take place ? when did the nice letter arrive ?

    use the template (blue) you can ad the bit re double dipping

    and then while you are at all this please take the time to complain , and help us a little

    This is a campaign of asking people to keep sending Theresa May actual hard copies of the trash they've been deluged with. Let her advisers' desks overflow with annoying paperwork re PPCs.

    No emails, all letters from genuine people pouring their hearts out. Write to your MP as well as Mrs May:

    https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/211923909-Why-not-write-to-your-MP

    The more the better, write it yourself if you are able and enclose copies of the threatograms and rubbish thrown at you.

    Do not do this by email - make your paperwork land with a thump on desks, just like it all landed in a very unwelcome way on your doormat.

    Apparently the DCLG are looking to make an announcement before the year end so let's make MP's and Mrs May aware that action needs to be strong. You can be sure that the BPA and IPC suits are lobbying Parliament and meeting their friends in suits.

    So let the consumers' voices be heard.







    good luck

    Ralph
    Last edited by Ralph-y; 13-10-2016 at 1:49 PM.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Oct 16, 12:20 PM
    • 36,474 Posts
    • 73,312 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 16, 12:20 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 16, 12:20 PM
    Appeal using the BPA template in blue, and add that the vehicle visited the store twice. I wouldn't recommend revealing the driver's details as this means throwing away a possible appeal point at PoPLA.

    Complain to the CEO of Aldi, and leave negative feedback on their fakebook page stating that their known to be flawed ANPR system has yet again failed. If you wish you can quote the very recent case of a parking lie triple dip where the vehicle keeper had dashcam footage showing their car was parked at home for part of the time, yet parking lie still sent them a PCN.
    The UK Government prohibit the use of ANPR cameras for car park monitoring by Councils and Local government because it is not fit for purpose. Private parking companies use it knowing it is flawed, because the errors it generates in turn generate cash for them.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Dave Sk
    • By Dave Sk 13th Oct 16, 12:26 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Dave Sk
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 16, 12:26 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 16, 12:26 PM
    Thanks for the quick replies! Just coming up with a reply now. Couple more questions that may or may not be relevant.

    First, DVLA had my old address (my fault, not updated V5). Which address should I include in the letter? Is giving them my correct address complicating things. I visit my old address once per week so can pick up mail from there.

    Secondly, the number plate in the entrance photo looks incorrect. One of the letters should be a C but it looks incredibly like a G. I fully expect it was my car and it's just a trick of the light or dirt or something. But is it worth including this and mentioning the fact that it's not 100% clear that it's my car? Or is this just complicating things again?

    Thanks again!
    • Dave Sk
    • By Dave Sk 13th Oct 16, 12:26 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Dave Sk
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 16, 12:26 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 16, 12:26 PM
    Sorry, couple more replies have come in while I was typing, will read them now!
    • Dave Sk
    • By Dave Sk 13th Oct 16, 12:50 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Dave Sk
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 16, 12:50 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 16, 12:50 PM
    Thanks for the extra info, I've edited the BPA template to add the following:


    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

    Your 'PCN' claims that the vehicle was in Aldi car park from ....arrival time & date.... and remained there overnight until ....departure time & date....
    However, the vehicle wasn't there for the entire time. There were 2 separate trips, neither of which lasted more then 30 mins, one on the Friday night and one on Saturday afternoon. It appears that your camera is not reliable, however I would urge you to check the store CCTV footage which will show that the visits were each well under 30 mins.

    The reliability of the camera is further brought into question as the registration plate shown in the arrival time picture is not the registration of my vehicle. While very similar, the last digit reads G. My registration last digit is C. This suggests that the arrival photo is of an entirely different vehicle. The photo of the vehicle is too dark to identify the make and model and therefore provides no further evidence of my vehicle's arrival time.


    ... rest of letter continues as BPA template...


    Does that sound OK?

    Thanks
    Dave
    • Dave Sk
    • By Dave Sk 13th Oct 16, 1:00 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Dave Sk
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 16, 1:00 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 16, 1:00 PM
    Ralph-y I'll definitely complain. I'm now worried about shopping at Aldi more then once every few days for fear of having to go through this hoop-jumping exercise again!

    In answer to your question the "offence" took place 30th sep arrival / 1st oct departure. Date issued on the letter 6th Oct. Not sure when it arrived as I only picked it up from my old address last night.
    • steve1500
    • By steve1500 13th Oct 16, 1:23 PM
    • 877 Posts
    • 592 Thanks
    steve1500
    Don't forget to copy in via Royal Mail


    Mrs T May 10 Downing Street London
    Private Parking Tickets is my way of telling the wife to use her car and not mine
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 13th Oct 16, 1:29 PM
    • 4,110 Posts
    • 3,596 Thanks
    Herzlos
    First, DVLA had my old address (my fault, not updated V5). Which address should I include in the letter? Is giving them my correct address complicating things. I visit my old address once per week so can pick up mail from there.
    Originally posted by Dave Sk
    Use your new address, if POPLA don't kill this they've got up to 6 years to take action, which means you'd need to keep checking mail at the old address for that long. They've got form for going quiet and sending legal papers after a few years. If you've always corresponded using the new address, they'd have no excuse for using the old one to catch you out.
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 13th Oct 16, 1:57 PM
    • 2,248 Posts
    • 2,731 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    "however I would urge you to check the store CCTV footage which will show that the visits were each well under 30 mins."

    they can not/ will not do this ..... if .... if there is CCTV the PPC should not have access to it .... I think you are mixing up ANPR ...

    do you have any proof that you where else where during this period ?

    if so tell them you have proof of such ....

    (and tell Aldi)


    not that it will make much difference ... they will not grant the appeal ..... but it will all help at POPLA

    good luck

    Ralph
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Oct 16, 2:01 PM
    • 36,474 Posts
    • 73,312 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Thanks for the extra info, I've edited the BPA template to add the following:


    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

    Your 'PCN' claims that the vehicle was in Aldi car park from ....arrival time & date.... and remained there overnight until ....departure time & date....
    However, the vehicle wasn't there for the entire time. There were 2 separate trips, neither of which lasted more then 30 mins, one on the Friday night and one on Saturday afternoon. It appears that your camera is not reliable, however I would urge you to check the store CCTV footage which will show that the visits were each well under 30 mins.

    The reliability of the camera is further brought into question as the registration plate shown in the arrival time picture is not the registration of my vehicle. While very similar, the last digit reads G. My registration last digit is C. This suggests that the arrival photo is of an entirely different vehicle. The photo of the vehicle is too dark to identify the make and model and therefore provides no further evidence of my vehicle's arrival time.


    ... rest of letter continues as BPA template...


    Does that sound OK?

    Thanks
    Dave
    Originally posted by Dave Sk
    ANPR images, not CCTV. Don't use, it appears that your camera is not reliable. State that this is a well known error which is why the UK Government prohibits its use for car park monitoring.

    If you have proof that your vehicle was elsewhere, then state that you have it and will use it as evidence if this goes to court.
    Proof could be witness statements from neighbours that they saw the vehicle during the alleged period, or timed and dated shopping receipts. Anything at all that indicates you were elsewhere with a time and date will suffice.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Dave Sk
    • By Dave Sk 13th Oct 16, 3:04 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Dave Sk
    Thanks! How's this sounding:

    Your 'PCN' claims that the vehicle was in Aldi car park from ....arrival time & date.... and remained there overnight until ....departure time & date....
    However, the vehicle wasn't there for the entire time. There were 2 separate trips, neither of which lasted more then 30 mins, one on the Friday night and one on Saturday afternoon. This is a well known issue with ANPR cameras which is why the UK Government prohibits its use for car park monitoring and therefore I would urge you to check the ANPR images again which will show that the visits were each well under 30 mins.

    The reliability of the camera is further brought into question as the registration plate shown in the arrival time picture is not the registration of my vehicle. While very similar, the last digit reads G. My registration last digit is C. This suggests that the arrival photo is of an entirely different vehicle. The photo of the vehicle is too dark to identify the make and model and therefore provides no further evidence of my vehicle's arrival time.



    Regarding evidence, with the exception of Aldi's CCTV, I don't think I have any evidence. Didn't keep the receipts and probably paid cash. I think I picked a mate up later that night on the Friday who could write a statement but would that be sufficient evidence as they are likely to be biased?
    • Dave Sk
    • By Dave Sk 13th Oct 16, 5:33 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Dave Sk
    I've written a complaint letter to send to Aldi, if anyone could have a read over it and tell me if it sounds OK that would be great! Also, any comments to my question regarding evidence and the appeal letter my previous message would be good. Hoping to get these sent off today but a bit nervous of clicking the send button in case I make a mistake!




    Dear

    OFFICAL COMPLAINT ABOUT PARKING EYE. VRN - ..number plate..

    I am a regular and loyal customer of my local Aldi in ..town.. and shop with you several times per week. However, I feel it necessary to lodge an official complaint after receiving an intimidating letter from Parking Eye claiming that my vehicle was parked at your store for just short of 17 hours between ..time.. and ..time.. Despite being nothing more than an invoice, the letter appears to mimic a Penalty Charge Notice and demands payment of £70. Additional pressure is brought to the recipient of the letter by offering a reduction of this payment if paid within 14 days. I wonder how many people receive this letter in error, as I have done, and simply pay up as they don't understand it fully or are simply scared that if they don't settle it quickly they will have to pay more.

    I completely understand why you need to police your parking facilities and I agree that you should do so as I know how frustrating it is when I can't park at your store. However, Parking Eye are not managing this properly and, judging by the research I have done, they are doing it aggressively with no care for your customers.

    The 17 hours stay I am accused of was, of course, nothing of the sort. If you have access to your CCTV footage I would urge you to check it for the dates specified. You will see that my car did indeed enter the car park on Friday night, however it then left probably 30 mins later (and certainly less than the 2 hour limit). My car did enter the car park again on the Saturday afternoon and left shortly after, this time probably less than 15 mins later. It appears that Parking Eye have ignored the car leaving on Friday night and ignored it entering again on Saturday. ie. they haven't counted it as 2 separate visits but have seen it as one long visit.

    This issue is well documented with the ANPR cameras that Parking Eye use to record customers exiting and entering. In fact, I believe the UK Government prohibits their use for parking monitoring for local councils due to their unreliability. A quick internet search reveals that there are numerous other reports of people finding themselves in similar situations because of the unreliable cameras. One last year at Aldi made the Guardian - https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/oct/11/aldi-parking-fine-parking-eye-supermarket

    I live just a five minute walk from your Aldi store in ..town... I have 2 spaces in a residents car park and plenty of on-road parking so there is no benefit in my car being parked in your car park overnight. Your CCTV will show that it was not there overnight and I have a witness who will provide a written statement to confirm that my car was elsewhere and on the Fri night in question after the arrival time at Aldi, should this be required.

    I have researched Parking Eye in detail today. It's cost me more in time and stress than the £40 reduced charge is worth. I considered paying it to make it all this go away, however it's the principle of the matter that has swayed me from doing this. I will continue to escalate this with Parking Eye and I will not pay anything to them unless instructed to do so by a court. There are other issues which I will pursue with them but the simple fact that I am being accused of something I didn't do is the core problem here.

    That said, I would really like to avoid this going to anywhere near a court, and it's also in Aldi's benefit that it stays away from court too. A headline in the ...local rag... along the lines of "Aldi take customer to court for shopping with them too often" along with a picture of my miserable face isn't going to do much for your public relations!

    I would also strongly suggest that you reconsider Parking Eye as one of your business partners when it's time to re-sign your contract with them. They are making decent companies like yourself look very bad and discouraging customers. I am now very wary of visiting your store on consecutive days in case this happens again. You spend the money building your brand and building stores and then you allow Parking Eye to set up shop in your car park and cause distress and worry to your customers. Your customers are losing out and you are losing out, while Parking Eye presumably make a tidy profit with relatively low initial spend and relatively low running costs. Today I have heard it referred to as "farming" supermarket car parks, and that is exactly how it feels.

    I would be interested to hear your comments on the matter and with the above points in mind I would request that you instruct Parking Eye to cancel the "PCN" invoice that they have sent and inform me in writing that you have done so. It would also be appreciated if you would be willing to arrange for some kind of compensation for the time and stress that this has caused me.

    Yours,
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Oct 16, 7:57 PM
    • 36,474 Posts
    • 73,312 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Thanks! How's this sounding:

    Your 'PCN' claims that the vehicle was in Aldi car park from ....arrival time & date.... and remained there overnight until ....departure time & date....
    However, the vehicle wasn't there for the entire time. There were 2 separate trips, neither of which lasted more then 30 mins, one on the Friday night and one on Saturday afternoon. This is a well known issue with ANPR cameras which is why the UK Government prohibits its use for car park monitoring and therefore I would urge you to check the ANPR images again which will show that the visits were each well under 30 mins.

    The reliability of the camera is further brought into question as the registration plate shown in the arrival time picture is not the registration of my vehicle. While very similar, the last digit reads G. My registration last digit is C. This suggests that the arrival photo is of an entirely different vehicle. The photo of the vehicle is too dark to identify the make and model and therefore provides no further evidence of my vehicle's arrival time.



    Regarding evidence, with the exception of Aldi's CCTV, I don't think I have any evidence. Didn't keep the receipts and probably paid cash. I think I picked a mate up later that night on the Friday who could write a statement but would that be sufficient evidence as they are likely to be biased?
    Originally posted by Dave Sk
    I wouldn't bother with asking anyone to revue the ANPR data. The most likely scenario is parking lie will say they can find no evidence that your car left and re-entered later, therefore they believe the PCN was issued correctly.
    I think you just need state that your car left, and came back later, therefore their system is defective.

    I don't think CCTV can be used to monitor parking and nobody is going to look at it without a court order. However, a judge is likely to believe you should this go to court when you show how often ANPR gets things wrong.

    You are only at the initial appeal stage so just add the bit about this being a double dip to the BPA template in blue. In parallel, complain to the CEO about this and ask for your ticket to be cancelled or you will become an ex customer.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Mr.Generous
    • By Mr.Generous 13th Oct 16, 8:11 PM
    • 917 Posts
    • 1,122 Thanks
    Mr.Generous
    excellent letter I think, I was a retail manager for many years and at some sites we had parking controls. I would be asking contractor to cancel that one straight away. BTW I got one myself once at Crewe store. I got it cancelled.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Oct 16, 9:43 PM
    • 11,025 Posts
    • 16,460 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I don't think CCTV can be used to monitor parking and nobody is going to look at it without a court order.
    I agree FC.

    @OP, have you ever tried to trace an 'event' via CCTV? I have. It's the most ball-aching job you could imagine. You almost have to go through everything in real time, scrolling back and to and if you're looking at distant images, almost too grainy to see any detail.

    And for those who say 'Please check that I entered the store .....', how the f*** do they know what you look like?

    Unless it's a murder/terrorist event, seeking CCTV analysis is as likely as the tooth fairy putting sixpence under your pillow every night you pop your teeth into the jar on your bedside table.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Dave Sk
    • By Dave Sk 14th Oct 16, 9:47 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Dave Sk
    Thanks guys. Regarding the CCTV, I don't really expect anyone to trawl through hours of footage, more a case of putting the ball in their court and showing that I'm confident of what they would find should they wish to.

    But I'll remove it from the appeal, might as well leave it in the Aldi letter. In the highly unlikely event that Aldi wish to review it, then it being a ball ache for them is good news in my book!

    I'm gonna fire off the appeal and letter today and also go into the store to speak to the manager. Also, I'll send the BMP letter to my local MP/T. May

    Having said that, and purely from an academic point of view.... I haven't ever tried to trace an event on CCTV. But presumably it's kept on a hard drive these days with a time stamp? Surely someone with anything but an ancient tape system could just start 5 minutes before the arrival time and watch me come in and leave a 20 mins later? But yeah, I know that nobody in Aldi complaints is going to review the footage, even if it still exists.
    • steve1500
    • By steve1500 14th Oct 16, 10:10 AM
    • 877 Posts
    • 592 Thanks
    steve1500
    I don't think CCTV can be used to monitor parking and nobody is going to look at it without a court order. However, a judge is likely to believe you should this go to court when you show how often ANPR gets things wrong.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake

    CCTV is not excluded from Subject Access Requests under the Data Protection Act. Fixed price £10

    You are fully within your rights to ask, you have to give them a rough idea of the times - they will then have to trawl through the CCTV & find you.


    Obviously you have to provide the store with a picture of yourself

    To make it even better - in theory they are then supposed to pixelate out or something similar anybody else in the video
    Last edited by steve1500; 14-10-2016 at 10:12 AM.
    Private Parking Tickets is my way of telling the wife to use her car and not mine
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