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  • FIRST POST
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 13th Oct 16, 10:06 AM
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    cyclonebri1
    Details on Parking Charge Notice
    • #1
    • 13th Oct 16, 10:06 AM
    Details on Parking Charge Notice 13th Oct 16 at 10:06 AM
    Just received my 1st ever parking ticket in over 45 years driving, PCN, by post.

    There are a few things I'm not happy with mainly it took me an internet search to find out where this ticket was issued for.

    The photographs taken by CCTV were of my car entering and leaving a car park 20mins apart.

    The issue was that there was no identifying detail in the pictures of where they were taken, no signs visible in the pics to identify the location and the only details given were The Ashford Centre (name slightly changed).

    No postcode, road details or even what county it was.

    I do now know of course but should it have been on the ticket as I had to search it out.

    I will revisit tomorrow as I have done every week this year without issue, ie no ticket. We have a blue badge for the car and it was in place at the time and parked in a marked disabled bay. I understood it was free parking for badge holders but something must have changed, didn't even realise they had entrance cameras installed so will have to check signage, visibility etc before I contact "Highview Parking"

    it's just the notice details I'm unsure of, and the fact that their evidence as they call it doesn't identify where it was neither is it made clear in the letter.
    Also refers to itself as a Charge Notice, but nowhere in the letter does it state Parking Charge Notice.

    Have looked up grounds to complain about the ticket, just wanted a few views on the above questions that I can't find an answer to.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
Page 2
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 16th Oct 16, 7:40 AM
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    cyclonebri1
    Disability Discrimination Act 2005 has been replaced by the Equality Act 2010.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake

    Then I'm as technically incorrect as they are

    There was one other thing that I noticed in their charge letter. Nowhere in the document does it refer to the invoice as a PCN or Parking Charge Notice, it simply calls it a Charge Notice and the document No is "Charge Notice Ref No ................", that in itself seems flawed?

    They sent me a confirmation email showing the details of my appeal, said they were experiencing exceptionally high email traffic at present, so please don't send emails whilst appeal is being considred (I wonder why). Bug?er that.

    So sent them a correction thanks to the above poster, infact I have sent them several, and plan more over the next few days as asking me not to contact them is an open invitation that I can't resist, to quote;

    Hello Highview, I have to address you further re this matter.
    Unfortunately I said your system breached the Disability Discrimination Act 2005, I now realise this was superseded by the Equality Act 2010, my apologies..

    It has also been brought to my attention that although you refer to a "PCN number" in your reply, the abbreviation "PCN" does not appear on the demand you sent me. Neither does the phrase Parking Charge Notice, you originally referred to it simply as a charge notice. Only after I appealed did you add the word "parking" into your communication with me. You truly do fall far short of your obligations under POFA 2012 and I must again contest this.

    The registered keeper
    Last edited by cyclonebri1; 16-10-2016 at 3:10 PM.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 5th Nov 16, 4:59 PM
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    cyclonebri1
    Anyone have any idea of when they are legally obliged to reply to me by??
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Nov 16, 5:08 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Never? They are not 'legally obliged' to do anything.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 7th Nov 16, 9:05 AM
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    cyclonebri1
    Never? They are not 'legally obliged' to do anything.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad

    Get that, so to put it another way;

    How long do they have to turn down my appeal or no longer be able to proceed. ie there must be a time limit before which they have to supply the POPLA code No?
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 7th Nov 16, 9:22 AM
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    Umkomaas
    Get that, so to put it another way;

    How long do they have to turn down my appeal or no longer be able to proceed. ie there must be a time limit before which they have to supply the POPLA code No?
    Originally posted by cyclonebri1
    The BPA CoP gives them 35 days to provide for a rejection of your appeal with an accompanying POPLA code. But a CoP is not 'the law' (although the Law Lords of the Supreme Court determined that it was 'effectively binding', but still not 'the law').

    They will no longer be able to 'proceed' after the balance of 6 years has expired. Limitation Act 1980.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limitation_Act_1980
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 22nd Nov 16, 9:39 AM
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    cyclonebri1
    The BPA CoP gives them 35 days to provide for a rejection of your appeal with an accompanying POPLA code. But a CoP is not 'the law' (although the Law Lords of the Supreme Court determined that it was 'effectively binding', but still not 'the law').

    They will no longer be able to 'proceed' after the balance of 6 years has expired. Limitation Act 1980.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limitation_Act_1980
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Well, it's about 37 days since I sent in the appeal and no response, just a demand yesterday for an increase in charge of now £100.

    I have sent them several other emails expressing disgust and suggesting harassment and informing them that they have failed to comply with POPLA guidlines.

    It's impossible to email them, the number given goes straght to the appeal process and simply generates an auto response email. i have about 10 of these now.

    But this is the real joke, their website states they have a dedicated and manned call centre that deals with both appeals and payments but if you call it it simply directs you to send money or how to appeal. There is no way to talk to anyone.
    However if you go to their main website and ring their corporate number even though it states that this number is not for dealing with charges or appeals, then you get their call centre. They really are doing everything to avoid easy access.

    Incidentally they said they are experiencing heavy appeal numbers at present and it can take over 35 days to respond, they really are totally unprofessional and complete jokers,
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 22nd Nov 16, 9:46 AM
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    cyclonebri1
    I also just read this on "Resolver"

    How to appeal?
    Get as much evidence as possible. Take photos of where you got the ticket. Look out for:

    Signs: are the signs unclear, or not visible where you parked?
    Ground markings: are any parking bays unclear or with no marking at all?
    Meter: take a picture of the ticket and the meter
    Witnesses: if possible get witness statements to support your case
    Once you submit your complaint the company must respond within 14 days and 35 days to decide your appeal.

    Technicalities
    If the ticket was sent out to the Registered Keeper "Notice to Keeper" earlier than 28 days after a windscreen ticket has already been issued.

    If the "Notice to Keeper" arrives after 28 days then the Private Parking company can only persue the driver, but cannot persue the keeper.

    Also if the firm asked the DVLA for the details of the Registered Keeper earlier than 28-days it also cannot sue the Registered Keeper. The DVLA is also liable for a breach of the Data Protection Act.


    Now my "ticket" was by post, does the same apply re DVLA? and it states must in the above details, is that correct??
    Last edited by cyclonebri1; 22-11-2016 at 9:52 AM.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 22nd Nov 16, 10:01 AM
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    Umkomaas
    Never phone a PPC (or debt collector) - you'll end as 'runner up'! Also, try 'showing' a judge your telephone call(s).

    Written complaint now to the BPA that HV have not complied with the CoP, ask them to intervene and sanction them.

    Just check your junk/spam folder that there's no reply there from HV seeing that you've been corresponding via email.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Nov 16, 1:58 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Now my "ticket" was by post, does the same apply re DVLA? and it states must in the above details, is that correct??
    No, neither the BPA nor DVLA care about the 35 days and you are not far past that time.

    Relax, it is only Highview!
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 22nd Nov 16, 2:15 PM
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    Ralph-y
    did you ever go back to complain to the manager with the bank statement ? or / and write to head office / CEO ?

    Ralph
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 23rd Nov 16, 8:03 AM
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    cyclonebri1
    No, neither the BPA nor DVLA care about the 35 days and you are not far past that time.

    Relax, it is only Highview!
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Yes, only highview parking, and I'm fine dealing with them, but back to the 1st post, it's the 1st time I have ever had a ticket/charge and I'm in my mid 60's. It's the missus that gets worried and when she gets worried I get agro,


    So the bit I quoted from Resolver, "Once you submit your complaint the company must respond within 14 days and 35 days to decide your appeal", is incorrect.


    I drew from all the advice that they could pursue me for 6 years if I didn't appeal, but is I did they had to respond within 35 to remain within the industry guidelines, even though they are not "law"? correct or not?

    Did i go back to Lidl Ralph?, yes I did but again too early for the manager. Young guy said he didn't know but to be honest I still think I have a strong enough case but back there Friday so will try to catch him again.

    It's enough to confuse anyone around that shop to be honest as Aldi is about a 100 yds away but under different car park management and covered bu CCTV, but in there you get a free hour but if you stay longer you have to sign your reg in a book in the shop. Lidl do refund tickets, I asked last week, I just didn't see the system had changed to cameras.

    The other annoying thing is that they are supposed to suspend the process until they deal with the internal appeal, but they send escalating demands out I was told as automated responses, wtf??

    Incidentally I don't think I've hung myself, they wouldn't take my charge refd over the phone and I'm on PAYG mobile.
    Last edited by cyclonebri1; 23-11-2016 at 10:21 AM.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Nov 16, 1:53 PM
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    • 52,477 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes, only highview parking, and I'm fine dealing with them, but back to the 1st post, it's the 1st time I have ever had a ticket/charge and I'm in my mid 60's. It's the missus that gets worried and when she gets worried I get agro,
    I'm a wife and middle aged myself but I never worry about this twaddle. My husband did, when I used to ignore these (before POPLA) though!
    I guess it depends on your personality, I'm a natural cynic and I always research stuff and can smell a scam whereas he probably wouldn't.

    I drew from all the advice that they could pursue me for 6 years if I didn't appeal, but is I did they had to respond within 35 to remain within the industry guidelines, even though they are not "law"? correct or not?
    Not really correct nor important but as a register keeper appellant, you will win this anyway. The guideline is 35 days to respond but sometimes they take longer and if they do, the BPA Trade Body (who are on their side, not consumers) don't care.

    So that's unimportant although you could mention it in passing in your introduction to your POPLA appeal.

    This is EASY for a registered keeper to win, no loophole needed. The keeper is not liable (you will need more words but we have template appeal points for POPLA stage too). Just do not imply the driver!
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    As I said earlier (quoted above) this would/should be easy to win 'as registered keeper' but I am uncomfortable with your wording in your first appeal here:

    When I did visit the car park in question excepting the sign at the entrance all signs were at an oblique angle to the road through the car park and when viewed from my parked position.
    I know you are saying there your 'parked position' when you went to visit the site after getting the PCN but POPLA, when skim-reading and rushing to put in a 'yes' or 'no' decision, may view that as an admission of who was driving that day, which won't be great.

    But you will still likely win this and it may have been cancelled on the BB issue already. As you have tried to email them again and got no response and you are now at day 38, I would email a complaint to the BPA:

    aos@britishparking.co.uk

    Even though they will come up with some old excuse for their member not meeting the 35 day timeline the BPA should contact the company to ask about the appeal outcome, to make sure you now get a POPLA code or confirmation the thing is cancelled. Which is what you want to know.

    Be careful not to say who was driving in the complaint. Show the BPA the PCN number, name of AOS member (Highview) and a copy of your appeal/proof when it was submitted.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 23-11-2016 at 8:06 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 23rd Nov 16, 2:53 PM
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    • 5,147 Thanks
    cyclonebri1
    superb response and i am so greatful that you have takenthe time to follow up on this, YES i should have said "our" parked position, but if you view it from the fact that we returned to take pictures, i drove, then it , then the statement stands.

    PS tried to send a pm of thanks as you have followed this closer than I have and I am very grateful and enlightened, but as you don't accept PM's it's a simple thanks.
    Last edited by cyclonebri1; 23-11-2016 at 3:09 PM.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Nov 16, 8:05 PM
    • 40,580 Posts
    • 52,477 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    No probs - you are welcome. Helping is why we regulars post here every day. I have good reason not to accept pm's but that's another story.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 24th Nov 16, 2:03 PM
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    cyclonebri1
    Email to aos@britishparking.co.uk sent, with all details but no copy of appeal letter. They can have that when they get in touch with me as any correspondence adds to the confusion/evidence and non compliance as I see it at present.


    No reply so returned an email to British Parking, intend to make a nuisance of myself if they and their member can't be assed to replay;

    Along the lines of;

    "Hello, disappointed that you have not acknowledged my complaint against your member Highview Parking regarding their 'charge ref X200000Zbollox2567.

    Perhaps you could return my email if you consider it appropriate or deserved?

    Yours, the registered keeper involved in the above".


    Ralph, did indeed talk to the "duty manager" at Lidl today. No disrespect to the guy, but a waste of time.
    "we don't have a manager sir, but I'm in charge today, I can't deal with that it's above my level, they don't tell us anything", words to that effect anyway.

    Not being 1 for giving up too easy I tried to find out how Highview Parking pay Lidl and others for the tickets they refund at the till.
    Evidently there is an annual figure contractually paid, my words not his, to the stores regardless number of tickets refunded. I'm guessing they don't want to rock the boat as in the last year due to 1/2 the centre closing what used to be an average 90% take up of spaces seems now to be about 25%
    Last edited by cyclonebri1; 25-11-2016 at 1:52 PM.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 30th Nov 16, 8:22 AM
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    • 5,147 Thanks
    cyclonebri1
    British parking finally replied, asked for copy of acknowledgement of appeal and copy of charge notice.

    I did send them the email but decided to just give the charge number as I feel that should be sufficient to take it up with their member.

    Now 46 days and no correspondence from Highview, professional not.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 30th Nov 16, 11:00 AM
    • 11,025 Posts
    • 16,464 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    If you don't provide them with what they ask for (PPCs and BPA alike) they often do not process things further.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 30th Nov 16, 2:08 PM
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    cyclonebri1
    They will get an email every few days reminding them to "process" if they don't, next 1 due tomorrow,

    Sick of the ignorance of these chancers, followed agreed procedure now intend to make a nuisance of myself regardless.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • RedKola
    • By RedKola 2nd Dec 16, 11:14 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    RedKola
    Athena Parking Fines (Lidl)
    Hi, I used to work for Lidl customer service a while back. I used to hate dealing with customers for the simple reason that most of what we told them was complete lies, especially regarding parking tickets.

    If you ever receive a parking fine from a company called Athena then Lidl have full access to their systems from the manager's desk to overturn these fines. In other words, Lidl customer service can cancel any Athena ticket they wish, they just choose not to as it generates income for the car parks.

    It was my understanding when I worked there that Lidl don't have to pay these companies to run their car parks for them as long as the car parks get 100% of the generated fine money. So yes Lidl might not profit from the fines themselves, as they will be more than keen to tell you on the phone, but they sure do save a lot of money from not having to pay these companies large sums of money to control their car parks. Their customers do that for them in form of over inflated fines.

    The sad thing about it is that I am sure a lot of elderly people will pay these hefty fines without trying to fight them. The threatening letters these companies send are terrible and Lidl do nothing to control them.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 2nd Dec 16, 11:27 AM
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    • 16,464 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Nice bit of insider info there RK. Thanks.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
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