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  • FIRST POST
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 13th Oct 16, 10:06 AM
    • 12,481Posts
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    cyclonebri1
    Details on Parking Charge Notice
    • #1
    • 13th Oct 16, 10:06 AM
    Details on Parking Charge Notice 13th Oct 16 at 10:06 AM
    Just received my 1st ever parking ticket in over 45 years driving, PCN, by post.

    There are a few things I'm not happy with mainly it took me an internet search to find out where this ticket was issued for.

    The photographs taken by CCTV were of my car entering and leaving a car park 20mins apart.

    The issue was that there was no identifying detail in the pictures of where they were taken, no signs visible in the pics to identify the location and the only details given were The Ashford Centre (name slightly changed).

    No postcode, road details or even what county it was.

    I do now know of course but should it have been on the ticket as I had to search it out.

    I will revisit tomorrow as I have done every week this year without issue, ie no ticket. We have a blue badge for the car and it was in place at the time and parked in a marked disabled bay. I understood it was free parking for badge holders but something must have changed, didn't even realise they had entrance cameras installed so will have to check signage, visibility etc before I contact "Highview Parking"

    it's just the notice details I'm unsure of, and the fact that their evidence as they call it doesn't identify where it was neither is it made clear in the letter.
    Also refers to itself as a Charge Notice, but nowhere in the letter does it state Parking Charge Notice.

    Have looked up grounds to complain about the ticket, just wanted a few views on the above questions that I can't find an answer to.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
Page 1
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 13th Oct 16, 10:26 AM
    • 6,258 Posts
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    pogofish
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 16, 10:26 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 16, 10:26 AM
    Highfield!

    You have still not got a parking ticket. Just an invoice.

    Start by reading the Newbies Sticky to properly inform yourself and see the range of options open to you
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 13th Oct 16, 10:36 AM
    • 12,481 Posts
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    cyclonebri1
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 16, 10:36 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 16, 10:36 AM
    Highfield!

    You have still not got a parking ticket. Just an invoice.

    Start by reading the Newbies Sticky to properly inform yourself and see the range of options open to you
    Originally posted by pogofish
    Highfield??? Thanks, yeah, I'm getting clued up on what I need to check re signage, notification of CCTV usage, visibility etc, have a good list of points, I just expected to at least have photographic location shown and a post code?.

    I know where it is now but genuinely didn't until I googled and found a place near me by that name, I don't know anyone who knows it by that name so have to check the sign anyway
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 13th Oct 16, 10:49 AM
    • 6,258 Posts
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    pogofish
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 16, 10:49 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 16, 10:49 AM
    Sorry - the curse of autocorrect strikes again!
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 13th Oct 16, 2:14 PM
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    cyclonebri1
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 16, 2:14 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 16, 2:14 PM
    So the question still is, have they given enough detail or do I complain as the location isn't stated?

    Plus how do they know if I did or did not purchase a ticket, no other pics supplied.


    I accept that if it states that blue badge holders have to purchase a ticket, ( it never used to), then a loop hole is likely my only escape.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Oct 16, 2:20 PM
    • 36,494 Posts
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    Fruitcake
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 16, 2:20 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 16, 2:20 PM
    What is the name of the parking company?

    They have used flawed ANPR camera technology, not CCTV.

    The NEWBIES thread tells you how to proceed and beat this using points of law.

    You don't need to know if you purchased a ticket, but it would help if you did. You simply start by appealing using one of the templates in the NEWBIES.
    Pictures of the signs would help the regulars if you can provide them.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 13th Oct 16, 2:24 PM
    • 2,248 Posts
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    Ralph-y
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 16, 2:24 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 16, 2:24 PM
    you really need to read through the newbies thread as suggested

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822

    it will correct many of the thing that you have wrong / misunderstood .....

    and help you understand the vipers nest that you have fallen into ....


    Ralph
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 13th Oct 16, 3:18 PM
    • 12,481 Posts
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    cyclonebri1
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 16, 3:18 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 16, 3:18 PM
    What is the name of the parking company?

    They have used flawed ANPR camera technology, not CCTV.

    The NEWBIES thread tells you how to proceed and beat this using points of law.

    You don't need to know if you purchased a ticket, but it would help if you did. You simply start by appealing using one of the templates in the NEWBIES.
    Pictures of the signs would help the regulars if you can provide them.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    I have of course thanked you. The parking company is as stated in the opening post, ie "Highview Parking"

    I have viewed the newbie posts, all of them, but cannot find an answer to my last post. What do you mean by flawed?, hopefully when I'm back there tomorrow the signage will be absent or flawed or not adjacent to the car by what a disabled person could be expected to walk.

    I will try to scan my notice to the forum, but am not to tech savvy so you may have to rely on my word, pics or entry and local signage will be put up by end tomorrow, even if they totally incriminate the driver, got that bit.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 13th Oct 16, 3:22 PM
    • 12,481 Posts
    • 5,148 Thanks
    cyclonebri1
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 16, 3:22 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 16, 3:22 PM
    you really need to read through the newbies thread as suggested

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822

    it will correct many of the thing that you have wrong / misunderstood .....

    and help you understand the vipers nest that you have fallen into ....


    Ralph
    Originally posted by Ralph-y
    As above Ralph, I have indeed ingested all printed but still find no ref to level of address detail needed and pics show a single entrance and exit to where??? you cannot place them

    If you feel I have missed something, or indeed can confirm they have complied or otherwise with the regs they work under then your assistance would be gratefully accepted.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Oct 16, 5:45 PM
    • 40,629 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    So the question still is, have they given enough detail or do I complain as the location isn't stated?

    Plus how do they know if I did or did not purchase a ticket, no other pics supplied.

    I accept that if it states that blue badge holders have to purchase a ticket, (it never used to)then a loop hole is likely my only escape.
    Originally posted by cyclonebri1
    No, two template appeal stages are an easy escape for you, hence why you were directed to the NEWBIES thread.

    The facts do not matter and you must not say who was driving, you need to appeal as registered keeper only. Simply send the template appeal shown in blue, in the NEWBIES thread. It is THAT simple, no need to mention the unclear location yet but you could submit a copy of the Blue badge as well (WITHOUT saying who was driving/nothing about 'I parked'!!).

    If Highview reject that appeal (and sometimes they just give up quickly) you can draft a POPLA appeal based on the usual ones you find when you search 'Highview POPLA'. Believe us, their PCN is not compliant with the wording needed in paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 (link to the Act in the NEWBIES thread if you are the type who like to dig a bit deeper and see it for yourself).

    This is EASY for a registered keeper to win, no loophole needed. The keeper is not liable (you will need more words but we have template appeal points for POPLA stage too). Just do not imply the driver!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 14-10-2016 at 12:59 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 14th Oct 16, 12:39 PM
    • 12,481 Posts
    • 5,148 Thanks
    cyclonebri1
    No, two template appeal stages are an easy escape for you, hence why you were directed to the NEWBIES thread.

    The fact do not matter and you must not say who was driving, you need to appeal as registered keeper only. Simply send the template appeal shown in blue, in the NEWBIES thread. It is THAT simple, no need to mention the unclear location yet but you could submit a copy of the Blue badge as well (WITHOUT saying who was driving/nothing about 'I parked'!!).

    If Highview reject that appeal (and sometimes they just give up quickly) you can draft a POPLA appeal based on the usual ones you find when you search 'Highview POPLA'. Believe us, their PCN is not compliant with the wording needed in paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 (link to the Act in the NEWBIES thread if you are the type who like to dig a bit deeper and see it for yourself).

    This is EASY for a registered keeper to win, no loophole needed. The keeper is not liable (you will need more words but we have template appeal points for POPLA stage too). Just do not imply the driver!
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Great advice, I'm sure I will be very grateful once this is settled,from what you say it seems I was thinking it too deep.

    I had to go back to shop there again today and it seems it is a recent change to cctv operation, I hadn't noticed it previously i parked in disabled bays and the ticker said it was ok.
    I realised why I missed the signage as conditions were the same as 2 weeks ago, and from the point were the pic was taken as I entered I was blinded by the low winter sun, all other signs were oblique to my position when parked, I could see very little but glare up to that point as I was still facing the sun,

    Having read the sign today,I'm still unsure If I need a ticket or not, I'll try to put up a photo shortly.

    The ticket machines have changed, you have to enter your reg and I've never seen that type before. Obviously they slap on a charge if no reg is entered.

    I'm going to sit down tomorrow and follow your template advice without waffling on with detail, cheers.











    2nd pic shows where I parked, the nearest ticket machine/notice is to the left and at about 45* to my line of sight 75 yds away.
    3rd puts it in context with the shop visited and also the effect of the sun
    4th is the sun flared view I had from the point their picture was taken
    Last edited by cyclonebri1; 14-10-2016 at 1:48 PM.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Oct 16, 5:04 PM
    • 40,629 Posts
    • 52,503 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    My question would be - where are the signs at the Disabled Bays themselves that create any obligation or contract specific to those bays - showing all terms including the tariffs and the potential charge of £100, as required in the BPA Code of Practice?
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 14th Oct 16, 5:41 PM
    • 12,481 Posts
    • 5,148 Thanks
    cyclonebri1
    My question would be - where are the signs at the Disabled Bays themselves that create any obligation or contract specific to those bays - showing all terms including the tariffs and the potential charge of £100, as required in the BPA Code of Practice?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad

    And added to that given that these are dedicated disabled parking that blue badge holders must park in, why is the nearest machine 75 yds away, ie beyond someone who qualifies for a blue badge's walking range?
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 14th Oct 16, 6:19 PM
    • 2,248 Posts
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    Ralph-y
    have you been back to Lidl to complain?

    ask for the manager no one else ....

    do you still have receipts?

    do you shop there regularly ?

    Ralph
    • AnnieO1234
    • By AnnieO1234 14th Oct 16, 6:44 PM
    • 1,648 Posts
    • 2,470 Thanks
    AnnieO1234
    If this is where i think it is, a minutes walk from the market place and Wilkos then it has been P&D for at least a year including for blue badge holders, I don't recall it being an anpr/reg number job. It used to be £1 and you get the money back with purchase. Not been there in a couple of months however.
    • AnnieO1234
    • By AnnieO1234 14th Oct 16, 6:51 PM
    • 1,648 Posts
    • 2,470 Thanks
    AnnieO1234
    Came in in May apparently. Lots of people complaining meters are often out of order since then on Facebook xxx
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 15th Oct 16, 8:03 AM
    • 12,481 Posts
    • 5,148 Thanks
    cyclonebri1
    If this is where i think it is, a minutes walk from the market place and Wilkos then it has been P&D for at least a year including for blue badge holders, I don't recall it being an anpr/reg number job. It used to be £1 and you get the money back with purchase. Not been there in a couple of months however.
    Originally posted by AnnieO1234
    You are absolutely bang on, I only go about 3 times per year, normally to Farmfoods for freezer stuff, don't thing I've been since May.

    I went in Lidl as Farmfoods and several other shops on that site have moved, related I wonder?
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 15th Oct 16, 8:08 AM
    • 12,481 Posts
    • 5,148 Thanks
    cyclonebri1
    have you been back to Lidl to complain?

    ask for the manager no one else ....

    do you still have receipts?


    do you shop there regularly ?

    Ralph
    Originally posted by Ralph-y
    Went in yesterday, managers day off and other staff were all on checkout with good sized queues so will try later, didn't park on site.

    Not got shop receipt but bank payment to Lidl shows for that date on statement.

    Reading the sign from a couple of feet away I was still unsure if it applied the blue badge holders in marked disabled bays?, it's in 1 of the pictures


    Anyway I gave the option of having displayed a blue on the car as this was the case, don't know if that would have been enough but this is the body of the grounds I sent, with just enough changes so as not to be a direct copy;

    Date 15/10/16


    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No. ...***************.................

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.!I have receipts from 2 shops dated the day of this alleged matter

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in!ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.!Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park. Indeed they are even less visible from the disabled bay in which my car was parked on the day in question. This bay is pictured below and in the distance the nearest machine to what is a bay for people with mobility issues is around 60 yards away. This is unreasonable and is outside of the range a disabled person could reasonably be expected to walk, why is no machine positioned adjacent to this disabled bay? I include a photograph of my blue badge as you suggested.

    I visited this site after great difficulty determining exactly where the pictures on the charge notice were taken, your reference to the "******* Centre" had to be googled as you failed to give even a remote location, not even which county they were taken in.
    This is totally unacceptable as even the pictures give no clue as to where they were taken.

    When I did visit the car park in question excepting the sign at the entrance all signs were at an oblique angle to the road through the car park and when viewed from my parked position. This position would have been the same one as used on the (99/9/16 as it is the only one adjacent to ****.
    Now, the entrance to the car park is on an exceptionally busy main road, eyes must be kept on the road not on signage within the park. Also, you will see a picture taken from the position my car was as shown in your pictures. As you can see the driver would have been looking directly into very low winter sun which totally obscures visibility other than straight ahead.

    In addition to this when reading the sign that details disabled parking it still remains unclear if a charge is due, you simply state blue badges must be used in marked disabled bays.

    Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully, ********* ********

    PS some of the pictures may not have loaded as it submission bounce so sending again with just blue badge image, further images will be sent on request

    Appeal evidence has bounced a second time as .JPG images are not allowed, I don't understand this so will now try to scan the badge.



    Wait and see time, thanks for all the help guys,
    Last edited by cyclonebri1; 15-10-2016 at 11:32 AM.
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • cyclonebri1
    • By cyclonebri1 15th Oct 16, 4:15 PM
    • 12,481 Posts
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    cyclonebri1
    sent this later as my memory fails under stress;

    Dear HP in follow on from my details to you today, 15/010/16



    Your appeals process excludes photographs taken on a normal camera and recorded to PC. A senior citizen such as myself cannot be expected to convert .jpg images (clueless), to another format. That is discrimination under the Disability Discrimination Act 2005

    So it follows that the failure to ensure ticket machines are placed in a position that disabled people can actually use them without risk to health and welfare is , the point that the act was brought into protect, is also an infringement of the act

    Add to this that your site does not include any opportunity to review before posting, the information I painstakingly supplied to you, may not have been presented as intended.

    Therefore please present this added detail to the above appeal
    I like the thanks button, but ,please, an I agree button.

    Will the grammar and spelling police respect I do make grammatical errors, and have carp spelling, no need to remind me.

    Always expect the unexpectedand then you won't be dissapointed
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 15th Oct 16, 4:47 PM
    • 36,494 Posts
    • 73,337 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Disability Discrimination Act 2005 has been replaced by the Equality Act 2010.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
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