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  • FIRST POST
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 13th Oct 16, 9:13 AM
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    NigeWick
    30 kW Nissan Leaf
    • #1
    • 13th Oct 16, 9:13 AM
    30 kW Nissan Leaf 13th Oct 16 at 9:13 AM
    I'm thinking of buying a 30kW Nissan Leaf in my efforts to be a bit more green and save on road tax and fuel costs. I do however have a bit of "range anxiety." I know the official figure is 155 miles but I am sure that's total twaddle.

    I occasionally drive 120 miles to visit our daughter and I was wondering if any members here can give me a realistic everyday range, especially for motorway driving at 70mph.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
Page 1
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 13th Oct 16, 10:45 AM
    • 15,658 Posts
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    agrinnall
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 16, 10:45 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Oct 16, 10:45 AM
    This review suggested around 90 miles was realistic, but that was commuting in traffic over 4 days, so you would hope that a single motorway trip would get you further.

    http://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/nissan/leaf/tekna-5dr-auto/first-drive-0

    Maybe have a look at the posts on here too.

    https://speakev.com/threads/real-world-30-kwh-leaf-range-statistics.14901/
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 13th Oct 16, 11:36 AM
    • 2,977 Posts
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    Nasqueron
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 16, 11:36 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Oct 16, 11:36 AM
    Go on youtube for "electric leaf man", he's got a lot of stuff about it

    VED bands will change soon anyway so if you did consider a newer one, do it sooner rather than later
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 13th Oct 16, 1:29 PM
    • 15,658 Posts
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    agrinnall
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 16, 1:29 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Oct 16, 1:29 PM

    VED bands will change soon anyway so if you did consider a newer one, do it sooner rather than later
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    Alternatively, wait until 2018 when the 60kW Leaf will be here with a significantly bigger range, and it will be £0 VED still.
    • ElefantEd
    • By ElefantEd 13th Oct 16, 2:08 PM
    • 477 Posts
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    ElefantEd
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 16, 2:08 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Oct 16, 2:08 PM
    We've got a 20kW Leaf. Reliable range for normal driving (ie 70mph dual carriageways, 60mph other national speed limit roads) is 85 miles. So you should be getting 120 or so, realistically, for a 30kw Leaf. Note that driving at 70 does use up a lot more juice than driving at 60. If there's a charging point half way (as there are at most motorway service stations) then you could always stop for a coffee and get a boost to avoid anxiety!
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 13th Oct 16, 2:24 PM
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    DoaM
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 16, 2:24 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 16, 2:24 PM
    Why would a 30kW model give more range than a 20kW model? Does the higher power model come with a larger (capacity) battery? If it comes with the same battery then arguably the range could be less.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
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    • BeenThroughItAll
    • By BeenThroughItAll 13th Oct 16, 2:39 PM
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    BeenThroughItAll
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 16, 2:39 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Oct 16, 2:39 PM
    Why would a 30kW model give more range than a 20kW model? Does the higher power model come with a larger (capacity) battery? If it comes with the same battery then arguably the range could be less.
    Originally posted by DoaM
    This is the result of confusion between kW and kWH. The OP (as I suspect you already know) is actually referring to a Leaf with a 30kWH battery pack.


    The Leaf's motor is actually an 80kW unit.
    • onomatopoeia99
    • By onomatopoeia99 13th Oct 16, 3:16 PM
    • 2,313 Posts
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    onomatopoeia99
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 16, 3:16 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 16, 3:16 PM
    This is the result of confusion between kW and kWH. The OP (as I suspect you already know) is actually referring to a Leaf with a 30kWH battery pack.


    The Leaf's motor is actually an 80kW unit.
    Originally posted by BeenThroughItAll
    I was reading this topic and knowing no more about the Leaf than it's electric was wondering the same thing - engine power tends to get quoted in kW quite a bit these days rather than bhp, so it's not an unreasonable question.

    I guessed it was kW hours, which makes much more sense. To be honest, I'd just buy a small petrol engined car in the useage scenario outlined. I could get comfortably over 50mpg on the motorway from my old 1960s technology Imp with the Solex lawnmower carburettor they left the factory with, had I retrofitted something better (an SU) 60mpg would have been possible. Modern cars must be able to do considerably better than that, given there's been 50 years of progress in the meantime.
    INTP, nerd, libertarian and scifi geek.
    Home is where my books are.
    • facade
    • By facade 13th Oct 16, 3:40 PM
    • 2,193 Posts
    • 1,147 Thanks
    facade
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 16, 3:40 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 16, 3:40 PM
    Modern cars must be able to do considerably better than that, given there's been 50 years of progress in the meantime.
    Originally posted by onomatopoeia99
    "Modern" cars are 50% bigger, twice the weight, and have engines strangled by "emission controls", so they don't.

    I never got less than 40mpg out of my Olden Days Mini, and my Fiat Uno did around 46. When I replaced it with a "modern" Corsa, I was lucky if I could get 42 over the same journey.
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
    • Stageshoot
    • By Stageshoot 13th Oct 16, 5:29 PM
    • 470 Posts
    • 499 Thanks
    Stageshoot
    We have been looking at the Leaf and had the 30kw on extended test drive for a week

    Our main working days are 80-90 mile drives, even with the bigger battery we got very very close to empty, and that is before the weather really gets cold.

    It was very stressful, and in the end we made a compromise and bought the BMW i3 with Rex, It is the smaller 22kw battery version but still gets us 80miles easily on battery but has the 2 Gallon fuel tank and onboard 670cc generator to add an extra 100miles (More if you are prepared to stop and fill up every 100 miles)

    Have hardly used the petrol, but the stress relief by having it there as a backup is immense.

    If you are going to be driving on the limits of range I would suggest you try the i3 befor commiting to a leaf

    And personally I think its a better built car.



    Also I found the Leaf tended to over estimate its range a bit with the last 20 or so miles being chopped off quicker as it compensated.

    Whereas the i3 always seem to underestimate. For example as its sitting my my drive now fully charge near Mansfield the portal says it will run out of charge at Milton Keynes, whereas I know from regular journeys it will not be out of Battery till just outside Luton.

    Last edited by Stageshoot; 13-10-2016 at 5:43 PM.
    • ElefantEd
    • By ElefantEd 13th Oct 16, 10:50 PM
    • 477 Posts
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    ElefantEd
    We've always found our Leaf to be reasonably good at estimating the range left, but it's only a guide, and is based on how you've driven for the last 15 miles (I think - something like that anyway). Range depends very heavily on driving style, if you anticipate well, use the regen breaking then you'll do better. Rain and cold weather does reduce range, buy about 5%. We've had ours for 2 years, done over 50k miles in it and are very impressed. It seems well engineered and nice to drive. But it wouldn't be for everyone, or for all circumstances. However, with a 30kwh battery you'd only need to recharge once en-route to do 120 miles, at worst (assuming you can charge at both ends).

    Personally I am very much looking forward to the 200 mile range version, which would be awesome!
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 13th Oct 16, 11:37 PM
    • 10,452 Posts
    • 5,776 Thanks
    Strider590
    Or you could just be green by not buying a new car, given that in order to build said car, it's carbon footprint is greater than your current car since it was new. For example transporting the lithium for the battery, from China on giant cargo ships that do 5 miles to a gallon of crude oil.

    If you want to be green, stop raping the planets resources to build yet more junk. Buying stuff you don't need, with money you don't have, to impress people you don't know, consumerism is the greatest threat to the planet and using the environment as an excuse for it? just ridiculous.
    Having the last word isn't the same as being right.......

    "Never confuse education with intelligence"
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 13th Oct 16, 11:53 PM
    • 11,462 Posts
    • 15,336 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    Or you could just be green by not buying a new car, given that in order to build said car, it's carbon footprint is greater than your current car since it was new. For example transporting the lithium for the battery, from China on giant cargo ships that do 5 miles to a gallon of crude oil.
    Originally posted by Strider590
    I use a similar argument when people question the green credentials of my 60 year old car.
    Advice; it rhymes with mice. Advise; it rhymes with wise.
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 14th Oct 16, 12:21 AM
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    Strider590
    I use a similar argument when people question the green credentials of my 60 year old car.
    Originally posted by Gloomendoom
    Well, yes exactly.

    It riles me up when people bang on about the environment like this, they're basically making socially acceptable excuses for their 1st world extravagant spending.
    They probably also do things like jumping out of planes for social media attention charity.

    By all means, if you want a car, just go out and buy one, don't make excuses, if you earned the money, that's yours to spend as you please, regardless of what anyone else might think of you..... But then if you break free from that, from the whole concept of doing stuff to impress everyone else, then you probably won't want a new car anyway.
    Having the last word isn't the same as being right.......

    "Never confuse education with intelligence"
    • gzoom
    • By gzoom 14th Oct 16, 6:37 AM
    • 187 Posts
    • 174 Thanks
    gzoom
    I'm thinking of buying a 30kW Nissan Leaf in my efforts to be a bit more green and save on road tax and fuel costs. I do however have a bit of "range anxiety." I know the official figure is 155 miles but I am sure that's total twaddle.

    I occasionally drive 120 miles to visit our daughter and I was wondering if any members here can give me a realistic everyday range, especially for motorway driving at 70mph.
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    We have had our 24kWh Leaf now for 18 months, we love it, but even a 30kWh Leaf might struggle b to cover 120miles at 70mph in winter+rain, 100 maybe.

    The Leaf was/is designed to be a city car, at M-way speeds of 70mph its not very efficient. A Tesla Model S desipte been much heavier than a Leaf and alot quicker actually uses less energy to travel at 70mph due to been more aerodynamic.

    Nissan is due to announce the next generation Leaf at the Consumer Electronics Show in Jan 2017, the next Leaf should be able to manage over 150 miles at 70mph.

    http://insideevs.com/nissan-ceo-carlos-ghosn-something-share-will-open-ces-january/

    The range of any EV is decided by efficiency which is measured in miles covered per kWh, and number of kWh the battery can store. My Leaf will do 3.5 miles per kWh in winter. Though it has a 24kWh battery only 20kWh is usable due to inherent safety buffers built into the battery. So in winter it has a max range of 70 miles, but you really don't want to run it to 0%, so realistically I rarely so any trips longer than 60-65 miles in winter.

    In summer your get 10-15% better range but unless you plan on never using the car in winter its always best to work on if an EV will fit with you travel needs in worsr case situations.

    The next gen Leaf is rumoures to have a 60kWh battery, so you can see just how much extra range is coming very soon. Over in the US you can already buy a Leaf sized EV with a 60kWh battery that has a real life range of over 200 miles in ideal conditions, but sadly the car is not available in RHD markets.

    If you don't want to wait, Tesla already sell EVs with a 60kWh battery, but the starting price is now £55k, and that doesn't include leather seats which is a £2.5k extra!! If you really have cash to burn Tesla have just announced a 100kWh car, at 3 miles per kWh thats a real life range of 300 miles, and it does 0-60 in around 2.6 seconds... Sadly the cost is very much in the category of 'If you have to ask how much, you cannot afford it' .
    Last edited by gzoom; 14-10-2016 at 6:48 AM.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 14th Oct 16, 8:13 AM
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    Gloomendoom
    How do you get home though?
    Advice; it rhymes with mice. Advise; it rhymes with wise.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 14th Oct 16, 8:32 AM
    • 4,177 Posts
    • 4,195 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    How do you get home though?
    Originally posted by Gloomendoom
    I'll take a wild guess that OPs daughter has electricity at home.

    OP I suggest you wait a year or so when there will be many more BEVs with range approaching 200 miles which gives you a good buffer. I'm planning to wait 2-3 years and will then buy a BEV.
    Last edited by AnotherJoe; 14-10-2016 at 8:34 AM.
    • BeenThroughItAll
    • By BeenThroughItAll 14th Oct 16, 9:32 AM
    • 3,464 Posts
    • 2,773 Thanks
    BeenThroughItAll
    Or you could just be green by not buying a new car, given that in order to build said car, it's carbon footprint is greater than your current car since it was new. For example transporting the lithium for the battery, from China on giant cargo ships that do 5 miles to a gallon of crude oil.

    If you want to be green, stop raping the planets resources to build yet more junk. Buying stuff you don't need, with money you don't have, to impress people you don't know, consumerism is the greatest threat to the planet and using the environment as an excuse for it? just ridiculous.
    Originally posted by Strider590


    I think you'll find 'giant cargo ships' do a lot less than 5mpg. A typical large container ship will cruise at something like 15-17kt or around 20MPH. Burning somewhere in the region of 1500gph, that means each mile burns something like 75 gallons of fuel, so they're actually achieving a more realistic 0.0133mpg.


    I'm surprised with your theoretical degree in theoretical physics you didn't know that.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 14th Oct 16, 9:38 AM
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    • 808 Thanks
    NigeWick
    Thanks for all the replies. I've now looked at the sites suggested and have decided that the 30 kW HOUR battery Leaf is for me. Checking charging stations between where I live and where I want to go I have found there are sufficient for me to safely get anywhere in England. I fully understand this will mean more stops as in three instead of one going to Devon and two instead of one going to the Lake District but at my age I will not object to the extra comfort breaks.

    Note to self, when the new vehicle is bought, change electricity provider to Ecotricity to take advantage of free charging.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • Stageshoot
    • By Stageshoot 14th Oct 16, 9:56 AM
    • 470 Posts
    • 499 Thanks
    Stageshoot
    Thanks for all the replies. I've now looked at the sites suggested and have decided that the 30 kW HOUR battery Leaf is for me. Checking charging stations between where I live and where I want to go I have found there are sufficient for me to safely get anywhere in England. I fully understand this will mean more stops as in three instead of one going to Devon and two instead of one going to the Lake District but at my age I will not object to the extra comfort breaks.

    Note to self, when the new vehicle is bought, change electricity provider to Ecotricity to take advantage of free charging.
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    Enjoy the Leaf..

    BEWARE OF ECOTRICITY T&Cs.. Fair Use of 52 Free Charges per year. (1 per week) after the 1 free per week you pay the normal £6 per charge.

    I was about to change to them as my supplier but in the end it worked out cheaper sticking with Eon and stumping up for the Motoway charging when needed.
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